Spoilers The Fantastic Four: First Steps grade and discussion thread

[Ssosmcin]

Beautiful film, a complete joy to watch from start to finish. Exactly what I was hoping for. Really, really great. 10/10 for me.

I never expected the FF to come close to Superman in box office totals. Everyone who draws a breath knows who Superman is and he's also had a few exceptional films to boot.

The FF is mostly known among comic book fans and their films prior have mostly sucked or at least been less than great. Think Superman is Star Wars and the FF is Star Trek.

 

[Pauln6]

I enjoyed this one. It was a very well-balanced movie, with enough recognisable comic characterisation but not so full on as the first attempt. I enjoyed the first two movies because they were so comic accurate but because they were so comic accurate, they were very much children's movies.

First steps kept the core, with subtle nods so that fans could spot the comic easter eggs. It was a nice touch to imply that Reed may be neurodivergent.

I did feel that it lacked a bit of peril, but that was probably because Galactus and the Surfer are so powerful, it just becomes all or nothing and they aren't going nothing on their first outing. I prefer it when there is a degree of balance between enemies.

 

[theenglish]

I'm going to be honest, I much preferred Thunderbolts and think it was the superior movie in all respects.

Thunderbolts was definitely the better movie. That said, I think that this was a great movie as well. I loved the characters, and feel that they really do feel like watching something that is somewhat loyal to their comic counterparts. I loved everything up until the first encounter with Galactus and arriving back on Earth. The big flaw in the movie was how quickly everyone fell back in love with the Fantastic Four after Sue's speech. It just took me right out of the movie for a bit. The best way to resolve that would have been for Reed to not have said anything about Franklin publicly and had him wrestle with that decision for the remainder of the film. The other major issue I had was the baby. Was there even a real baby their or were they just holding a blanket our something. It was so "uncanny valley" it just creeped me out. Why couldn't they have just used a normal baby most of the time and CGI'd the action scenes or the scenes where they actually needed a specific action from the baby?

Those were two pretty big negatives for me. Thankfully the cast was great and had solid chemistry and the story itself was engaging. I loved the visuals and the effects. Ben sounds just like I imagine him sounding in my head. Johnny's character was just the way he should be. Vanessa Kirby stole the show and demonstrated how much of a badass Sue can be. Pascal was solid as Reed.

With two great films in a row, I hope the MCU is winning back the support of the general public.

 

[Mage]

Thunderbolts was definitely the better movie. That said, I think that this was a great movie as well. I loved the characters, and feel that they really do feel like watching something that is somewhat loyal to their comic counterparts. I loved everything up until the first encounter with Galactus and arriving back on Earth. The big flaw in the movie was how quickly everyone fell back in love with the Fantastic Four after Sue's speech. It just took me right out of the movie for a bit. The best way to resolve that would have been for Reed to not have said anything about Franklin publicly and had him wrestle with that decision for the remainder of the film. The other major issue I had was the baby. Was there even a real baby their or were they just holding a blanket our something. It was so "uncanny valley" it just creeped me out. Why couldn't they have just used a normal baby most of the time and CGI'd the action scenes or the scenes where they actually needed a specific action from the baby?

Those were two pretty big negatives for me. Thankfully the cast was great and had solid chemistry and the story itself was engaging. I loved the visuals and the effects. Ben sounds just like I imagine him sounding in my head. Johnny's character was just the way he should be. Vanessa Kirby stole the show and demonstrated how much of a badass Sue can be. Pascal was solid as Reed.

With two great films in a row, I hope the MCU is winning back the support of the general public.

I agree with a lot of what you said. The baby didn't bother me in the way that you did. But yeah, Franklin being revealed to the world like this felt like a reality tv show reveal or something. And Reed just flat out stating that not giving the baby to Galactus is why they failed.... It set up a section of the movie that felt weird. They are a public family, but also insanely smart. Reed and Sue must have known that would backfire like crazy. Simply state Galactus was too powerful and they need more time.
I get why it was in the movie, you need drama. But considering the characters, it felt so dumb.

As for these two great movies winning back the public.... Perhaps over time through D+, when more people watch it at home. It will gain momentum, while buzz for the new Spidey and Avenger movies will make people a bit more hyped again.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I felt that Reed thought since the world loved them, they would understand. But he was also visibly shaken and not thinking clearly and didn't have a Plan B yet. In the end he was right, but Sue had to speak to them as a parent and also as part of their extended family.

I felt this aspect, while similar to Superman, worked better in First Steps because in Superman, people did a 180 against him the moment news broke from third parties. Trusting immediately what they saw in the media.

Since the movie Superman is trying to mirror today's society in a lot of ways, I didn't buy it. There wouldn't be a sudden collective turn based on media claims, even expert verification. We have people who doubt EVERYTHING from the media and experts ("9/11 was in inside job!"), people who don't ("trust the science"), and people in between . It was an expedient shortcut that didn't work for me. And then they all turned back just as quickly later on.

At least the world in First Steps heard all of this first had from the people involved.

 

[Mudd]

I felt this aspect, while similar to Superman, worked better in First Steps because in Superman, people did a 180 against him the moment news broke from third parties. Trusting immediately what they saw in the media.

I thought it worked less well in First Steps because the population of that Earth was portrayed, without exception, as fawning hero worshippers with no agency of their own whatever.*

They were all just gaga over the Four all the time and so thankful to have been led to the Promised Land.

And then when their gods didn't answer their prayers they all flipped their mental switches to betrayed anger. And then settled down when The Mother came out and made a speech to them.

It's the greatest flaw of the film's story, really. And maybe the biggest reason it didn't feel like an MCU movie at all (not, in and of itself, necessarily a bad thing IMO).

In Superman, there are a few examples shown of people and groups who don't entirely trust Superman or believe he's completely reliable. The whole world is not on his side, even at the end.**


*What did any government or any sector of the scientific community at any point do to contribute to an effort at addressing the threat? Even so far as making suggestions? None shown.

**"Glad you're not worried about the metahumans, Rick. Because now they're the ones making the rules."

 

[Ssosmcin]

I see your point, but since the world was pretty much portrayed as a retro utopia of a sort, it all felt like Fantasy Wonderland for the FF. Both movies took narrative shortcuts for the same plot point, but since I liked First Steps more, I forgave it faster. I fully admit my bias.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The other major issue I had was the baby. Was there even a real baby their or were they just holding a blanket our something. It was so "uncanny valley" it just creeped me out. Why couldn't they have just used a normal baby most of the time and CGI'd the action scenes or the scenes where they actually needed a specific action from the baby?

There was a real baby on set, her name was Ada, but there was a great deal of CGI use for the character, which is only fair as you can't expect a 3-year-old to be able to emote and perform on cue for the camera.

Whoa, baby! The real story behind the adorable star of 'Fantastic Four'

There's a quartet of Marvel superheroes in \

www.usatoday.com

 

[Mudd]

I see your point, but since the world was pretty much portrayed as a retro utopia of a sort, it all felt like Fantasy Wonderland for the FF. Both movies took narrative shortcuts for the same plot point, but since I liked First Steps more, I forgave it faster. I fully admit my bias.

I probably mirror it.

 

[theenglish]

The difference between the two films is that the public is already divided and uncertain about their opinion of Superman at the beginning of the movie.

 

[oktay]

I watched it yesterday. The first hour was good but after that it was bad.

 

[Mudd]

The difference between the two films is that the public is already divided and uncertain about their opinion of Superman at the beginning of the movie.

Yes, and there remain concerns and differences at the end. I think it's a big part of why I said awhile back that the made-up city of Metropolis felt more real to me this time out than F4's version of New York. And why F4 didn't "feel like the MCU" to me. The earlier, most successful phases of the MCU did a good job of selling the illusion that all this was happening in real places, involving real organizations and technology, despite being pure comic book fantasy.

 

[theenglish]

Yes, and there remain concerns and differences at the end. I think it's a big part of why I said awhile back that the made-up city of Metropolis felt more real to me this time out than F4's version of New York. And why F4 didn't "feel like the MCU" to me. The earlier, most successful phases of the MCU did a good job of selling the illusion that all this was happening in real places, involving real organizations and technology, despite being pure comic book fantasy.

Although I did like this version of the FF and their world, I appreciate your opinion on this, especially considering that Stan and Jack wanted to create comic books that were more compatible with the "real world" than DC was producing at the time. If I understand comic book history correctly, Marvel's success in doing that is what pushed DC to make their stories more "realistic" (in comic book terms) and gritty than they had been producing up until that point.

 

[Mudd]

Although I did like this version of the FF and their world, I appreciate your opinion on this, especially considering that Stan and Jack wanted to create comic books that were more compatible with the "real world" than DC was producing at the time. If I understand comic book history correctly, Marvel's success in doing that is what pushed DC to make their stories more "realistic" (in comic book terms) and gritty than they had been producing up until that point.

I loved this version of the F4 and I loved the movie, but while I enjoyed their world (I'm a sucker for mid-century design, for one thing), I'm looking forward to seeing them navigate MCU's main Earth setting.

Collectively, they're the new Steve Rogers.

 

[Mudd]

The activity in this topic has fallen off precipitiously after, what, three weekends?

The reception for the film is discouraging. It's not a flop. It's not a hit. It seems like it just...is.

 

[CaptainWacky]

There's just not that much to say. The movie is good, and reaches very good and even great in the first encounter with Galactus and the Surfer chase scene, but it still isn't quite as good as it needed to be to feel essential. I think if instead of the rushed montage at the start we'd had an actual spectacular action scene to introduce the team, and if there was a bit more meaty character stuff (what's going on with Ben, really?), AND if Galactus had felt like more of a thread (maybe his ship could have started eating the Earth a bit or something) it would have been a bigger hit. I'd still recommend seeing it in the cinema because of the space chase sequence but I understand why people would just wait 90 days to watch it on Disney+.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The activity in this topic has fallen off precipitiously after, what, three weekends?

The reception for the film is discouraging. It's not a flop. It's not a hit. It seems like it just...is.

A flit.

 

[Mage]

The activity in this topic has fallen off precipitiously after, what, three weekends?

The reception for the film is discouraging. It's not a flop. It's not a hit. It seems like it just...is.

There's just not that much to say. The movie is good, and reaches very good and even great in the first encounter with Galactus and the Surfer chase scene, but it still isn't quite as good as it needed to be to feel essential. I think if instead of the rushed montage at the start we'd had an actual spectacular action scene to introduce the team, and if there was a bit more meaty character stuff (what's going on with Ben, really?), AND if Galactus had felt like more of a thread (maybe his ship could have started eating the Earth a bit or something) it would have been a bigger hit. I'd still recommend seeing it in the cinema because of the space chase sequence but I understand why people would just wait 90 days to watch it on Disney+.

I think CaptainWacky says it best.
I know I've mentioned this often lately, but more and more people are spending less money in the theater because it's expensive and the costs of living have gone up a lot in the last few years. I don't go as often as I used to and will definitely wait with some movies to hit streaming, since I've already paid for that. The reason my buddy and I decided to watch this instead of Superman, was because we're still MCU fans, despite being less enthusiastic than a few years ago.
And, truth be told, even though I had a lot of fun with this movie, in hindsight I would have been ok if I had waited to see it on D+.
I would not be surprised if in about two months we'll be getting a lot of 'Well, finally saw this tonight' reviews in this topic.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think CaptainWacky says it best.
I know I've mentioned this often lately, but more and more people are spending less money in the theater because it's expensive and the costs of living have gone up a lot in the last few years. I don't go as often as I used to and will definitely wait with some movies to hit streaming, since I've already paid for that. The reason my buddy and I decided to watch this instead of Superman, was because we're still MCU fans, despite being less enthusiastic than a few years ago.
And, truth be told, even though I had a lot of fun with this movie, in hindsight I would have been ok if I had waited to see it on D+.
I would not be surprised if in about two months we'll be getting a lot of 'Well, finally saw this tonight' reviews in this topic.

15 years ago our most convenient movie theatre on the outskirts of a raging metropolis of 2 million people was in dire straights because no one with a clear conscience wanted to spend 25 dollars on a ruddy movie ticket. Jobs were on the line, bankruptcy was talked about, until one smart SOB decided to do something desperate. They lowered general admission to $10.

4 people per week willing to spend $25 to see the likes of The Book of Eli, or 3000 people per 7 days demanding to expend a tenner on some flick like 127 hours.

 

[theenglish]

I loved this version of the F4 and I loved the movie, but while I enjoyed their world (I'm a sucker for mid-century design, for one thing), I'm looking forward to seeing them navigate MCU's main Earth setting.

Collectively, they're the new Steve Rogers.

I like your Steve Rogers comment. It would be particularly apt if the multiverse is indeed collapsed and they end up living on the main Earth. It would even be more interesting if they end up living on the main Earth and the rest of the world knows who they are and believes they've been living there for years.

As I've sat with the film for awhile, I really think it's one of the best MCU stories we've had in years. I think I like Thunderbolts just a little bit more, but that still makes two great stories in a row. My wife and kids thought it was great and they haven't liked a Marvel film since GOTG3. I hope that the FF get a sequel film after Secret Wars without too much delay.