That seems arbitrary. But then, I've never understood why people blame entire categories of person for the actions of individual members of that category.
Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
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That seems arbitrary. But then, I've never understood why people blame entire categories of person for the actions of individual members of that category.
Are you saying you don't understand bigotry? That's easy. People get scarred of things that are different than themselves until they stop being scarred through deeper observation and personal experience, Then, also learn to not let emotions control their ability to think logically.
From Sony’s Twitter account
And here come the cast announcements
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Mark Ruffalo Returning as the Hulk for ‘Spider-Man 4’
But wait, that's not all.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Great. Ruffalo's Hulk is one of my favorites in the MCU.And here come the cast announcements
Mark Ruffalo Returning as the Hulk for ‘Spider-Man 4’
But wait, that's not all.
Weirdly enough, Thor's another, even though I think most of his films have been dire. Hemsworth and Hiddleston are just that good.
Me too, I was disappointed that he didn’t appear in the Hulk-centric last Captain America film.
Certain people who lament Spider-Man being babysat (or whatever) in his MCU films won’t like this announcement.
Beat me to it!
I really like they way the suit looks because the design is wonderfully straight-forward and simple, while the spider emblem is fantastic.
I'm genuinely pained to admit this, but I broadly agree with this. I feel there's something fundamentally wrong on a conceptual level about the MCU Spider-Man.
It's not that I find Holland's Spider-Man an entitled, punk-ass little shit -- so is Tobey Maguire's, who, from a 2025 vantage point, is a walking incel poster boy and the one voted Most Likely to be a 4Chan Shitposter -- because that is a valid element of the character. I think the MCU-ness of Holland's films is a problem; yes, MCU Spidey exists in this universe, and that will have an effect on the character and his world, but it sometimes feel like the thinking is because they can play with the toys, they must. We know how MCU Spidey as a character relative to the universe and its wider characters, and I don't feel like we know the character in relation to himself. I really feel that we need an MCU Spidey film without the MCU as a crutch. just because they can play with the MCU toys doesn't mean they should.
It looks a bit like a cross between Tobey's and Andrew's costumes. Maybe MCU Spider decided to honor the guys who helped him out.
Needs a chair.
What @Xerxes82 said.
@Christopher It was arbitrary. Avengers vs X-Men came out in the spring and summer of 2012. The same year as the MCU’s The Avengers in theaters. It was meant to capitalize on the exploding popularity of the Avengers at the time and exercise an age old Marvel trait of pitting hero vs hero.
At the Marvel office level, it was a way to divorce (no pun intended) the X-Men from the Avengers. The two groups had always been friendly to one another and never failed to work together. However, with the X-Men movie rights being owned by Fox (coincidentally now owned by Disney) and the Avengers movie rights being owned by Disney. There was a sentiment that the X-Men needed to be ‘exed out’, if you will.
Now, this was not something Marvel Studios demanded. They don’t care about the comics or sales. This was all on Marvel editorial.
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What that meant for the Marvel Comic universe was a separation.
Storm who was married to T’Challa, was queen of Wakanda and an Avenger. All of that was negated. She’s only an X-Men now.
Hank McCoy/Beast who had been an Avenger since the George Perez days in the 70s. Was also kicked from the team.
After AvX, there was a unity squad formed by Captain America called the Uncanny Avengers (2012). Which had Rogue, Havok (Alex Summers), Wolverine and Scarlet Witch on the team. However, attitudes changed at Marvel editorial again with the build to MCU Age of Ultron (2015). Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were to be featured characters in that movie. However, do to movie rights they couldn’t be called or referenced as mutants. Which is something Fox argued for back in the early 2000s. Since in years past, the FF were also called mutants in the comics.
Marvel Comics used the 2014 event AXIS to retcon Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver’s relation to Magneto. The twins were no longer mutants. This further divorced the X-Men from the Avengers. The Uncanny Avengers title was cancelled. Removing Wolverine from the 2 Avengers titles he was on at the time. As well as Rogue and Havok. Wanda was no longer a mutant, so she got to stay on the Avengers. X-Factor was cancelled too. As that series was about Pietro patching things up and working things out with his other “sister”, Polaris and his estranged Mutant/Inhuman daughter Luna. Pietro went back to the Avengers exclusively now.
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From there, Marvel editorial would continue to isolate the X-Men and further push brand synergy with the MCU and wider Marvel in general.
1. The big push Marvel gave the Inhumans a decade ago. When Marvel Studios announced an Inhumans movie. Because to the layman, Inhumans and X-Men are a distinction without a difference.
Unrelated but worth mentioning.
The Terrigen mists, which previously were inert in mutants with active X-genes, was now a fatal disease. Pushing the mutants to eXtinction again… Thousands of regular humans awakened an Inhuman power from traveling terrigen mist clouds. And the whole world rejoiced at this new race. Because getting super powers from an alien cloud is totally different from being born with powers like a mutant. At or around this point, X-Men fans threw up their hands. Marvel had run out of ideas of why humans hated mutants and couldn’t even be bothered to explain why humanity embraced the new Inhumans but rejected the mutants.
The Terrigen mists, which previously were inert in mutants with active X-genes, was now a fatal disease. Pushing the mutants to eXtinction again… Thousands of regular humans awakened an Inhuman power from traveling terrigen mist clouds. And the whole world rejoiced at this new race. Because getting super powers from an alien cloud is totally different from being born with powers like a mutant. At or around this point, X-Men fans threw up their hands. Marvel had run out of ideas of why humans hated mutants and couldn’t even be bothered to explain why humanity embraced the new Inhumans but rejected the mutants.
2. After GOTG 1, Starlord, Rocket Raccoon and Gamora were altered in the comics to mimic the personalities from James Gunn’s movie.
3. Small universe syndrome. You know how 95% of the MU occurs in Marvel’s New York City? In decades past, you could find:
Avengers Mansion
The FF’s Baxter Building
Doctor Strange’s Sanctum
Street Level Heroes: Spider-Man, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Shang-Chi, Jessica Jones, Punisher, Moon Knight, Cloak & Dagger, and Ghost Rider.
And the majority of their villains in one city.
But did you know that the GOTG set up a base of operations in NYC recently?
That the Xavier Mansion was moved from Upstate (possibly Buffalo NY) to Central Park?
That the Inhuman City, New Attilian is floating above the Hudson River in NYC?
Maximize the brand synergy! Now every issue has the potential of being a crossover with the rest of the MU. The only characters not rooted and established in NYC are the Hulks and Asgard.
It’s bad. But I digress.
The X-Men have been embraced back into the fold after the acquisition of 20th Century Fox by Disney. The Inhumans were dumped and their herd culled to just the Royal family and a few stand outs. Even Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan (the face of new Inhumans) is now a mutant and an X-Man.
The MCU has been getting their mileage out of X-Men characters in Doctor Strange and The MoM, Deadpool and Wolverine, X-Men ‘97 animated show, and soon to be released Avengers Doomsday and Secret Wars. The X-Men supersatured the market again with their Krakoa era titles (2019-2024).
All this to say the X-Men were victims in a divorce and ugly custody battle.
Yes, I'm aware of the real-world editorial factors that led to Marvel downplaying mutants for a while. I'm saying that I have trouble believing in-universe that a people as advanced as the Wakandans are supposed to be, and as familiar with the impact of racism, would be so quick to condemn all mutants, even their own queen, for the actions of just one. The fact that it was forced by metatextual considerations is evident in how arbitrary it feels from an in-story standpoint.
Sony would be stupid not to leverage their access to MCU characters at every opportunity. That's leaving money on the table, which no one making CBMs now can afford to do.
Holland and his castmates are tremendous improvements over their predecessors as well.
Holland and his castmates are tremendous improvements over their predecessors as well.
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Jeremy Renner sounds optimistic about returning to the role of Hawkeye
Jeremy Renner is ready to return as Hawkeye in the MCU after snowplow incident: 'I’m sure we’ll do Season 2'
The Hawkeye actor say he's ready to return the MCU after the snowplow incident that nearly ended his life. Read more at Empire.www.empireonline.com
Maybe that possible young avengers/heroes series is still doable. I really want to see more Kate Bishop and Ms Marvel scenes together.
Ah, I see what you meant now.
Yeah, I agree. Marvel never came up with a satisfactory explanation for any of this at the time. Given who the parties involved were. Ta-Nehisi Coates did rollback some of the T’Challa and Storm estrangement with his Black Panther run.
It’s just one of those things where certain writers of MU characters don’t understand other characters in the shared universe. It’s up to the Editor-In-Chief to keep it all straight and make things make sense. They have all seemingly been disinterested in doing so.
Similar to how Marvel never explained why the Inhumans were embraced seemingly overnight in the MU. With there never being a sentinel program proposed to police the Inhumans. While the mutants are still mistrusted and threatened with sentinels to this day.
Or the super-hero registration act from Civil War (2006). Mark Millar (writer) and Joe Quesada (EIC at the time) claimed there was an actual document with the superhero registration act details explained. They claimed they would release it to explain why Tony, Reed and Hank Pym were right and why Cap, Logan and Sue Richard’s were wrong. But they never released or explained it. They just moved on to the next yearly event, Secret Invasion.
In all cases, I think the powers that be just couldn’t explain the story attributes they want to see. So they didn’t try to.
I understand the financial logic of MCU Spidey, but that comes for me at the expense of the creative logic of the character. And as long as Sony makes MCU Spidey films, I've resigned myself to the reality that I'm probably never going to fully enjoy them.