What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Bad Thoughts]

This is a thread for "controversial" "opinions." The standards for proof shouldn't be that high.

i mean, people want it banned or taken out of streaming and syndication rotations because the casting combined with the story has Unfortunate Implications, but most other people seem to say it isn't *quite* that bad, but there are still Unfortunate Implications that would have been mitigated if they were lizard aliens like the script apparently originally called for. and removed the troi and yar thing especially because of yar's background.

The episode drew heavily upon concepts of primitiveness and underdevelopment. Already, the American mind would be drawn to see this more endemic of non-Europeans, especially in the mixture of sex and honor. caucasian actors would probably not have diminished the associations. The design and the casting heavily punctuated the cliqued depictions of underdeveloped societies, which made the episode completely unredeamable.

 

[korblborp]

I was not in favor at first. We'd never seen a dark skinned Vulcan before. In my head Klingons were dark and swarthy while Vulcans were more sallow completed.

Then I watched Voyager and Tuvok became my favorite Vulcan (or second favorite)





No. As others have pointed out, it's the stereotypical appearance - casting an all black cast and dressing them in stereotypical African attire.

The story is not stellar, but also not the problem. Read the story without any visuals and it doesn't offend. Cast an all black cast without the stereotypical African native cues and it doesn't offend.

It was the entire package that offends.

The original idea was tge natives were a race of lizards. That would have been fine. Make the cast multi-cultural and that would be fine. Keep the cast black but use Gothic or Asian or Arctic or Pirate styles of wardrobe and architecture and that would be fine.

Ooohhhh is pirate!

again, i feel like you are reiterating what i was saying about the episode and saying i was saying something different. and i don't think keeping the casting but making them be pirates or inuit-ish or whatever would have been much better. and not even acknowledging what my original point actually was, which was responding to Bad Thoughts who suggested that since klingons are generally (though not universally, even in TOS) swarthy or dark skinned (and like they picked the prosthetics final colors beforehand and didn't do any kind of tone matching), only african-american people should have gotten those roles. that that would be kind of racist on it's own, and have the further Unfortunate Implications when you foreign conquerors who are extremely aggressive, sexist, and forceful in their courtship all played by one ethnicity...

and it's possible i am just wildly misinterpreting what they meant anyway

 

[korblborp]

I would like to point out, being on the spectrum comes in a lot ways. And for some, learning self control either through medication or structure, is possible. For others, it never will be.

And than there are people who abuse being on the spectrum to justify just saying whatever they want.

It needs to be very clear that sometimes it's up to the individual, and sometimes it simply is not.

i am constantly afraid i am being an asshole when i am not trying to be, and i do not do In-Perosn conflict well at all. i like internet text based communication becasue i can take time and try to be clearer, but sometimes i try overmuch or lose my focus and ramble

 

[137th Gebirg]

Aw shit, that last part can happen to anyone!

But yeah, I also prefer the written word online for the same reasons.

Although after I hit "Save" I often re-read what I posted, whisper "dammit!" to myself and need to make several concurrent corrections.

 

[korblborp]

Aw shit, that last part can happen to anyone!

But yeah, I also prefer the written word online for the same reasons.

Although after I hit "Save" I often re-read what I posted, whisper "dammit!" to myself and need to make several concurrent corrections.

all the time!

 

[drt]

possibly just they can't be lower deckers forever, possibly "lets get out of this while we're still a good show"

I'd lean towards the latter, Lower Decks was my second favorite of the new shows, but I'm willing to admit that it was obviously starting to lose steam in the fifth season.

 

[korblborp]

This is a thread for "controversial" "opinions." The standards for proof shouldn't be that high.


The episode drew heavily upon concepts of primitiveness and underdevelopment. Already, the American mind would be drawn to see this more endemic of non-Europeans, especially in the mixture of sex and honor. caucasian actors would probably not have diminished the associations. The design and the casting heavily punctuated the cliqued depictions of underdeveloped societies, which made the episode completely unredeamable.

none of which i disputed. and i don't understand where the misunderstanding came from that has lead to people restating this as if i were denying it or that it wasn't informing what i said that started this
(btw i think you meant "cliched")

it's this that set this whole tangent off

Calling it blackface is exaggerated for the most part. What's ridiculous is that there were plenty of African American actors with the exact skin tones who could have played the same parts, especially when looking at small roles or extras. (Robert O'Reilly's buggy eyes would be difficult to replace )

which would have been racist in a similar fashion, especially given how klingons were depicted early on in TNG. worf himself having a few "oh noooo" moments that i am sure were not intentional, before characterization really shook out.

and then there's the notion that somehow roles were taken away from african american actors, as if they had a set tone for the prosthetics and didn't do tone matching at all. and the image this conjured of someone holding a swatch and going through a casting call, holding it up against actors' skin and going "yep, yep, naw, nope, holyshit perfect"....

 

[Nyotarules]

seems to be the main one, most people who have a problem with it, at least that i have seen on these boards, seem to think it would have been mostly fine if not for the casting

I think the story was more of a problem than the casting. A planet of all brown skinned folks was no more racist than Justice which was a planet of white skinned folks with blonde hair. Both had questionable plots.

 

[korblborp]

I think the story was more of a problem than the casting. A planet of all brown skinned folks was no more racist than Justice which was a planet of white skinned folks with blonde hair. Both had questionable plots.

i was also thinking about tgat episode a bit and how i also found that odd at the very least. c'mon, hire whoever shows up and slather them in green goop or something.

it's the casting that seems to take it from "highly questionable" to "actively offensive"

 

[137th Gebirg]

"Questionable" was a very polite way of describing it.

I would have used "Abomination of a dumpster fire shit show that should never have seen the light of day".

 

[Mage]

i am constantly afraid i am being an asshole when i am not trying to be, and i do not do In-Perosn conflict well at all. i like internet text based communication becasue i can take time and try to be clearer, but sometimes i try overmuch or lose my focus and ramble

Same brother!! Don't worry about it.

Aw shit, that last part can happen to anyone!

But yeah, I also prefer the written word online for the same reasons.

Although after I hit "Save" I often re-read what I posted, whisper "dammit!" to myself and need to make several concurrent corrections.

I'm both. I can prefer the written word, but I can also overthink and over-explain. It depends on where my AuDHD is, and there are moments when I am on point in spoken word. Sometimes written word is better. Sometimes written word is just me typing for 15 minutes to get a ten word sentence correct and still fail.

It's why I prefer to not be with people.

 

[137th Gebirg]

It's why I prefer to not be with people.

Get outta my head!

 

[Nyotarules]

I like the Section 31 movie, watching it right now. Its enjoyable tosh!

 

[CoveTom]

Do people really want "Code of Honor" to be banned, taken off Paramount+, or taken out of the syndication rotation? I've been around TrekBBS for 22 years and I don't ever remember hearing anyone argue that.

 

[Jayson1]

Just like there are black Romulans ("The Pegasus(TNG)", Star Trek 2009, Season 1 of PIC).

Granted it wasn't until season 7 before we got that black Romulan. I don't think we got a black Vulcan until Tuvok. Which I guess make sense at the time when aliens also all wore the same haircuts and uniforms. Their was this idea that alien all had to look very much like each other. I wonder if lots of it was due to time. Easier to make a bunch of matching outfits than to create something unique for each character, including the extras.

 

[Jayson1]

Do people really want "Code of Honor" to be banned, taken off Paramount+, or taken out of the syndication rotation? I've been around TrekBBS for 22 years and I don't ever remember hearing anyone argue that.

Probably someone on the internet does. But most people don't. Nobody who is truly against censorship does.

 

[Jayson1]

I don’t understand why Lower Decks ended after 5(?) Seasons. It was a cartoon. And a good one.

Was it just a case of “always leave them wanting more”?

What happened?

They're slowly moving away from Kurtzman Trek. I have a feeling the Academy show will only last a season. Paramount's new owners I bet have their own vision and ideas on what they want to do with the Trek franchise.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Granted it wasn't until season 7 before we got that black Romulan. I don't think we got a black Vulcan until Tuvok. Which I guess make sense at the time when aliens also all wore the same haircuts and uniforms. Their was this idea that alien all had to look very much like each other. I wonder if lots of it was due to time. Easier to make a bunch of matching outfits than to create something unique for each character, including the extras.

MA tells me that there was a Vulcan High Priestess played by a black actress in the Final Frontier.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Paramount's new owners I bet have their own vision and ideas on what they want to do with the Trek franchise.

Let me guess: a new Star Trek with a sexy young cast.

(Which is what they have said we needed for thirty years.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

Let me guess: a new Star Trek with a sexy young cast.

(Which is what they have said we needed for thirty years.)

When has there not been a Star Trek TV cast with young sexy people in it?