My thread was not connected to the comments on Una's hairstyle
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x03 - "Shuttle to Kenfori"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
We see M'Benga newly transferred aboard the Enterprise in SNW's series premiere and his history with Pike is explained there.
Not really as the entire reason M'Benga was being followed because Dak'rah's daughter needed to kill M'Benga to regain her family honor ONLY because M'Benga killed him before she could.
But surely M'Benga's situation mirrors Ortegas? If neither of them had acted, things would have rumbled along to a satisfactory conclusion. Is it trying to throw shade at NuPike's admiration for NuKirk's ability to leap before he looks? I suppose, if M'Benga had not acted, Ortegas would not have had to act, as there would have only been zombie Klingons on the planet... but then would Pike and M'Benga have died without the Klingons' help...? Oof.Not really as the entire reason M'Benga was being followed because Dak'rah's daughter needed to kill M'Benga to regain her family honor ONLY because M'Benga killed him before she could.
I will be annoyed if they structure an entire major storyline just to placate screeching babies on the internet.
That wasnt murder. It was a military action. Kruge just finished destroying the grissom and killing kirks son. If Kirk would not have blown the Enterprise the klingons would have had a Federation starship and the genesis files. No telling how many people would have been killed. It was a necessary military action.
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Absolutely.
Apples and oranges here my friend.
Dr. N'Vbenga wasn't under his Superior officers orders not to fight or kill Klingons. On the planet And in looking at the situation where he killed the Klingon were criminal turned Federation diplomat back in SNW season 2 episode 8), he gave that Klingon numerous chances to walk away before he killed him; and we honestly do not know who instigated that particular fight as it was blurred behind a on transparent medical partition.
Erica Ortega suggestion was completely discussed in the briefing room by multiple parties; and the officer in command of the ship considered the plan to reckless and went with her own.
Later on the bridge Ortegas knowingly made a decision to go against those orders and create a situation that she believed would force Una to have to implement her plan. She put the entire ship at risk, and even risked a possible diplomatic incident that could have plunged the Federation into another Federation/Klingon War.
And with what we saw on the planet, it's not 100% certain that Dr M'Benga and Captain Pike would not have survived as they were both about to board the Klingon shuttlecraft when they were beamed away - so no, if Ortegas had followed Commander Una's orders, it may not have led to an unsatisfactory result.
Or played or watched The Last of Us.Someone probably read an article on the zombie fungus.
Ophiocordyceps unilateralis - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
This modern Trek trope with everyone in the entire chain of command disobeying orders, regulations, policy, and procedures on a weekly basis is weak sauce and bad storytelling. Yes, there were instances in TOS and TNG when those things happened, but generally speaking the crew followed orders and acted within the boundaries of starfleet regulations and Federation law. Disobey orders once in a rare while and you are a clever maverick. Do it ALL THE DAMN TIME and you've broken suspension of disbelief- starfleet would drop you like a hot potato, and rightly so.
At least none of them were yelling "Gary!"
(Gary is my first name, by the way, so the first time I was exploring that Vault, and the first one yelled my name, I nearly freaked the fuck out!)
I read it more as Starfleet is a fucking shambles and everyone is going rogue
Oh absolutely, most of these things are intentionally and deliberately ambiguous. It's a testament to the way the show is written. In particular, a lot of emotion and intention can be gleaned from the characters' expressions.
My principal concern was more about the level of awareness about Pike formally choosing to ignore M'Benga's confession because they are friends. Is it assumed by the writers that this is acceptable? What if the crime was molesting a woman or a child, for example? Should our friends get to determine what is and isn't prosecuted? If you want to watch an absolutely brutal morality tale examining this point, watch Promising Young Woman.
I don't mind the characters doing morally ambiguous things where they are framed as morally ambiguous so that we are given licence by the writers to judge their behaviour. I am uncomfortable where they do morally ambiguous (or downright heinous) things written in a way where it seems we are 'expected' to cheer them on, such as the summary execution of Nero's crew.
As I say, the Star Trek movie had a lot of silly writing. The characters and the audience is expected to applaud Kirk for his 'ingenuity' when his original plan, in defiance or orders, would have led to the destruction of both the Enterprise and the Earth and his plan that does eventually work, only works because Spock Prime spoon-fed him everything he needed to know, and because Nero chose to travel slower than warp 4, and lowered his shields in plenty of time when approaching Earth from the expected direction. If Nero had only lowered his shields and activated the drill simultaneously, the plan would have been toast. I couldn't really see any ingenuity. It was blind luck.
Personally, I think there is insufficient evidence to convict M'Benga of murder, despite his admission that there were many ways that could have subdued the elderly Klingon but he might be guilty of manslaughter/second degree murder.
I was under the impression it did happen "ALL THE DAMN TIME" in the other shows as well. That's what the "Not a Military" side claim as their proof in The Argument.
I'm pretty sure people could come up with 2 or 3 examples per series.
Once Spock committed a capital offense - the only capital offense on the books - without even a reprimand, that ship had sailed.
The End.
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Nobody could prosecute without breaching a Starfleet general order. They would have had to pass sentence and and then report to a suicide booth. Plus, Samuel T. Cogley was washing his hair that day.
A solid 8 for this one, the best of the 3 so far.
M'Benga is the main plot here but I'm not sure we gained any new knowledge over the excellent 2nd season episode it's derived from. We had all pretty much assumed he killed the Klingon Ambassador on purpose already, and we knew he had a rough time of it, but it's a good idea to show consequences for such unilateral actions.
The zombies were like mosquitos at the net for me: providing a low buzzing of danger but not enough to overshadow the key players. I will call this a M'Benga episode, not a zombie episode.
There was an air of background mystery in this episode that looks like it'll have threads picked up later in the season, including Batel and Ortega's visions or trauma. Maybe the Gorn have gained telepathic powers or Batel can be a hybrid go-between for peace, though peace doesn't seem to be on the producers minds.
M'Benga is the main plot here but I'm not sure we gained any new knowledge over the excellent 2nd season episode it's derived from. We had all pretty much assumed he killed the Klingon Ambassador on purpose already, and we knew he had a rough time of it, but it's a good idea to show consequences for such unilateral actions.
The zombies were like mosquitos at the net for me: providing a low buzzing of danger but not enough to overshadow the key players. I will call this a M'Benga episode, not a zombie episode.
There was an air of background mystery in this episode that looks like it'll have threads picked up later in the season, including Batel and Ortega's visions or trauma. Maybe the Gorn have gained telepathic powers or Batel can be a hybrid go-between for peace, though peace doesn't seem to be on the producers minds.
Pike isn't/sdidn't ignore M'Benga's confession. Pike is evakluatging it in context of everything surrounding it. Yes, the 'Letter' of Federation Law and Star Fleet regulations would see M'Benga prosecuted and imprisioned for it BUT:
- Pike understands that Dak'Rah was a war criminal, as weel as a traitor to his own people and Starfleet and the Federation themselves are IGNORING that aspect of his past because he serves a useful purpose. (Remember that Star Fleet sent a Special Operations team to kill Dak'Rah becausae of his actions and the Brass hoped M'Benga would participate, but he didn't and that mission failed.
- Pike sees that the Klingon Empire wanted Dak'Rah dead for being a traitor; and the Klingon Empire wasn't sending its soldiers after M'Benga for any retribution - rather Dak'Rah's own daughter is wanting to engage and kill M'Benga because her Klingon Family's Honor has been destroyed, and by the Klingon's Honor Code to erestore it she eother had kill Dak'Rah herself OR killm the person who actually killed Dak'Rah.
Pike knows M'Benga's service history, so he understands and accepts what M'Benga did in SNW S2 E8 Under The Cloak Of War. Hell, I believe Pike trhought M'Benga did decide to and killed Dak'Rah when Dak'Rah himself confrnted M'Benga the way he did. Remeber M'Benga didn't just launch into a rage and murder Dak'Rah; M'Benga gave that Klingon a couple of chances to walk away before Dak'Rah effectively threw himself at M'Benga. There was also the fact that Dak'Rah SAW that Dr. M'Benga had kept the knife that Dak'Rah had left behind (but Dak'Rah had never told anuyone that); and realized M'Benga could wreck Dak'Rah's Federation career IF M'Benga revealed that fact and the knife was anallyzed.
(IE - I'll posit that Dak'Rah, once he knew the above was either going to get M'Benga to join him as his partner in the diplomatic core OR failing that get and allow M'Benga to murder him as Dak'Rah himself realized he waqs too much a coward and could bring himself to commit suicide; so yeah, M'Benga was Dak'Rah's own too for effectively killing himself.)
I don't believe Pike ever felt that waht M'Benga did was morally ambiguous - M'Benga was in a way forced to finish a personal (and sanctioned) mission he took upon himself during teh Federation/Klingon War once he waqs effectively offered the chance to do so.
JJ Kirk's actions againt Nero's crew in ST09 aren't morally ambigous either. Nero and his crew WILLFULLY destryed the planet Vulcan itself and killed every Vulcan still on it. (They also killed the crews of an entire Klingon Fleet - but again, I doult the Star Fleet Admiralty would shed a tear for that action.)
^^^
So again, I've no problem with cheering Kirk on as Nero deserved what he got as did the crew who willfully followed a illegal and genocidal order.
So JJ Kirk is no different than prime Kirk (who if he didn't have Spock beside him or bailing him out of some really crazy ideas and plane he undertook, would have been dead or sutting court martialed in a Federation prison before the successful end of his original 5 year mission.)
M'Benga's trugthful confession would be enough IF he he gave it in a Court of Federation law; which he might have done (since he is still conflicted about it himself); and probably woujld be put before such a Court IF Pike ever reported said confession to Star Fleet and Federation authorities; but that isn't going to happen as Pike said what he would report (if he made one) was that he saw his friend LIE tom a Klingon soldier to save Pike's life as said Klingon WAS holding a knife to his throat and the only way she would let P{ike go is if M'Benga admitted to killing Dak'Rah and fought her in ritual combat.
The problem with Pike in this episode is it's also part of a wider context that we also saw in the first episode of this season.
It would be one thing if this was maybe setting Pike up on an arc to fall - that they were exposing his fatal weakness. But the way the shows are directed, it's clearly not supposed to be shown as a fault of command. Not to mention we know where his story ends up, so he cannot face any serious repercussion for any of this.
Of course, people can state obvious cases to the contrary through Trek history, like when Kirk goes AWOL to save Spock. But those stories worked because they were rare. Kirk was established as a very by-the-book, committed officer, which made the power of him disobeying orders all the more emotionally powerful. Just as it's far more moving when a stoic character is moved to tears than seeing a weepy one cry for the seventeenth time.
- He goes behind enemy lines to rescue his crewmembers from the Gorn, even knowing it will risk war. He kinda gets an okay from April, but we know that Starfleet wouldn't okay it.
- He sets off on a second mission behind enemy lines (this one Klingon) to save his girlfriend's life. This time, he doesn't even tell April, and just goes rogue, figuring as long as Starfleet doesn't know, it's fine.
- And, of course, he decides to not report M'Benga when he confesses he murdered a (bad) guy in cold blood.
It would be one thing if this was maybe setting Pike up on an arc to fall - that they were exposing his fatal weakness. But the way the shows are directed, it's clearly not supposed to be shown as a fault of command. Not to mention we know where his story ends up, so he cannot face any serious repercussion for any of this.
Of course, people can state obvious cases to the contrary through Trek history, like when Kirk goes AWOL to save Spock. But those stories worked because they were rare. Kirk was established as a very by-the-book, committed officer, which made the power of him disobeying orders all the more emotionally powerful. Just as it's far more moving when a stoic character is moved to tears than seeing a weepy one cry for the seventeenth time.
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