Or someone made a mistake.
How old was Spock when he died?
- Thread starter Airin
- Start date
This is Star Trek; we don't make mistakes.
But they do lie, a lot.
Well that assumes Mitchell was the first officer, which isn't even hinted at in the pilot. DC Comics to put that thought in my brain back in the 80's and it's a fun idea, but has no real merit.
Yes. And since when does the First Officer of a starship have to double as Kirk's chauffeur on the bridge? I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it looks like Mitchell is closer in rank to where Sulu was, from Corbomite on.
Edit: that isn't right. Mitchell is a Lt. Commander. Whoops.
Is it possible that Spock and Mitchell were both First Officers of their respective departments - Spock being First Officer of the Science Department and Mitchell the First Officer of the Navigation Department. Spock being the overall Second Officer.
Well Mitchell was the helmsman, not the navigator, if that makes a difference.
Not saying Mitchell isn't the head of whatever department, but the idea is that he is Kirk's first officer in WNMHGB - which we have no evidence of. It absolutely would have been mentioned somewhere, it's important to the entire command structure if the Exec is suddenly turned into a god and the captain has to kill him at the end. He is really just Kirk's old friend who is steering the ship. Anything more than that is fan conjecture.
Regardless of weird lines early on that we're discussing, Spock if the first officer (the exec) of the Enterprise under Kirk's command. There wasn't any promotion mentioned and the only real possible change was Spock going from Lt. Commander to full commander as the series went on (congrats Spock). As the second lead in the series, Nimoy once past The Cage, isn't portraying some officer a few notches down. He's filling the role of first officer. He's Kirk's confidant, giving him the hard facts and barking communications.
Memory? What is this?? I forgot about what I am talking about....Oh shit, even better! I'm over here doing math like a chump when I should just get a better memory.
Number One was Pike's "chauffeur" in "The Cage".Yes. And since when does the First Officer of a starship have to double as Kirk's chauffeur on the bridge? I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it looks like Mitchell is closer in rank to where Sulu was, from Corbomite on.
Edit: that isn't right. Mitchell is a Lt. Commander. Whoops.
Spock and Kirk are both "Gold Shirts". Mitchell is a "Sand Shirt".
Perhaps Mitchell served in the role of "First Lieutenant" as Spock did in "The Cage."
I missed this response somehow; sorry. I was just trying—and not ultra-coherently—to summarize what I remember about the "Spock as Second Officer" debate whenever it comes up. It seems to go:
1. JJVerse Goofy Graphic ("SH*T") Raised for Discussion
2. "Enemy Within" Second Officer Spock Line of Dialogue ("SOSLOD") Offered as TOS-Based Proof of SH*T
3. SOSLOD Explained Within TOS by Mitchell Being the First Officer and Spock the Second Officer in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" ("MFOSSO Theory")
Are there holes in the MFOSSO Theory? I'm sure there are, and since "Where No Man . . . " naturally requires some gymnastics to fit in with the rest of TOS anyway—not helped by NBC's airdate order decisions back in the day—that's to be expected.
But the fact remains that Spock was indisputably Kirk's first officer in TOS, maybe in an acting capacity or something in the early days, but then with the official title—and explicitly referred to as such—many times for the bulk of the series. And hence, the SH*T is simply a ridiculous error either made by or not corrected by a bunch of hacks who didn’t care, and who were lucky their cast was so talented. RIP, Anton.
I think Abrams treated Nimoy with far more respect than TNG did.
160 to 200...from the start at tos might of thought spock is somewhat almighty and still sort of except all the canon saying it might all finish. But not that short over 150 the standard for modern age was 99 or 100 for human though long or not does prosper.. Trek ccg and trek bbs are sort of huge with this stuff looks pretty fine though
Re: Spock as second officer
A cursory look through the first fourteen episodes (at chakoteya, in production order) shows that the term 'first officer' was used twice. Once in Charlie X (ep 8) but referring to Tom Nellis of the Antares and once in The Dagger of the Mind (ep 11) in a log entry by Spock referring to himself.
In the 15th episode Court Martial, Spock's positions are officially listed as First Officer and Science Officer in the judicial proceedings.
So it is not outside what TOS told us for him to be the one before the other.
A cursory look through the first fourteen episodes (at chakoteya, in production order) shows that the term 'first officer' was used twice. Once in Charlie X (ep 8) but referring to Tom Nellis of the Antares and once in The Dagger of the Mind (ep 11) in a log entry by Spock referring to himself.
In the 15th episode Court Martial, Spock's positions are officially listed as First Officer and Science Officer in the judicial proceedings.
So it is not outside what TOS told us for him to be the one before the other.
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