Be Forever Yamato REBEL 3199

[137th Gebirg]

It is a different culture. Not everyone defines themselves by the West’s moral code.

Precisely. We in the west have always been an insufferably judgey and finger-wagging people. For example, "Those filthy Injun barbarians! We shall take it upon ourselves to civilize them and they will be the better for it!" It's sadly deeply rooted in our own DNA and that's why the rest of the world hates our guts, because we don't know how to stay out of other people's business.

But I digress...

An amazing anime movie to watch is "Spirited Away". It is probably the only film I've ever seen that really delves into eastern spiritualism, particularly as it applies to the Japanese culture. They believe literally everything has a spirit within it. Not just people & animals, but also trees, structures, even rocks, demonstrating varying degrees of complexity. Why do I bring this up here?

In early Yamato, there was always this running joke about the poor beleaguered "third bridge" attached to the underside of the hull. In the original run, that thing must have blown up, burned, disintegrated, melted off, etc., countless times, only to be miraculously intact the following episode, like they had an endless supply of third bridges stored away in a cargo hold somewhere, that they just took a little bit of time to weld back on just in time for the next episode. In fact, through the show's run, any kind of hull damage, no matter how considerable, winds up being completely fixed by the next episode, as if drydock-new. Now, we can just hand-wave it away as sloppy writing, or budgetary problems with building all new cell animation for the continuously deteriorating state of the ship during its voyage. However, if we take into consideration that Yamato has a spirit (in fact, the spirit of the entire nation of Japan whose original name was, at one time, Yamato) and an actual living thing, would it not make sense that the Japanese would believe Yamato to be able to heal itself, like any other living thing? Further evidence comes in the movie "Final Yamato" (1983), when the Yamato and its crew are knocked out - can't remember if it was the Denguil or Aquarius - but at one point the Yamato starts itself up and gets the crew away from danger. Before Analyzer/IQ-9 shuts down himself, he witnesses this and in disbelief exclaims, "The Yamato... It's alive?!?" and then collapses.

Yep.

 

[Skipper]

It is a different culture. Not everyone defines themselves by the West’s moral code.

These articles are important women in Japan who are trying to support gender equality and fight against sexism.

So, according to your reasoning, they are subservient to Western moral codes and traitors to Japanese cultural values.

Very interesting.

Can you elaborate?

Japan Is Trying to Revitalize Its Economy. Naomi Koshi Wants to Make Sure Women Aren’t Left Behind

Koshi founded OnBoard, a company that trains and places women in corporate board positions across Japan

time.com

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/society-equity/japans-new-female-role-models-seek-empower-other-women-2024-03-07/

'Black Box' shines a light on shadowy realities of sexual assault in Japan

Shiori Ito's memoir highlights shortcomings of justice for survivors in Japan.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Japan: why workplace sexism remains endemic | FairPlanet

The world's third-largest economy is struggling to get past its rigid traditional gender roles.

www.fairplanet.org

Workplace sexism in Japan: Women share gender inequality experiences

After having experienced my fair share of less-than-cool comments and some rather interesting conversations while working, I decided to reach out to other women working here to hear about their experiences of workplace sexism in Japan. In this article, I share a story of my own and two real-life...

japantoday.com

Oh look, Amnesty International.

Japan's sexism problem runs deep

With only tepid support in Japan for the #MeToo campaign against sexual harassment, Amnesty's East Asia Researcher Hiroka Shoji believes Japanese women must hold the government to account and demand respect for their rights.

www.amnesty.org.au

Just out of curiosity, do you think that what happens to women in Afghanistan is a purely cultural issue and we should not apply our "Western values"?

EDIT this is interesting too

What women in Japan really think about workplace gender equity | Michael Page

Explore workplace gender equity in Japan: insights on pay gaps, leadership representation, and differing priorities between genders.

www.michaelpage.co.jp

Promoting equity and inclusion for women

• 49% of women are dissatisfied
• 29% are satisfied
• 21% are neutral
• 1% are uninterested

These Japanese women, who are judging their own culture in the wrong way!

 

[BillJ]

These Japanese women, who are judging their own culture in the wrong way!

It will be up to them to work towards making their culture better. In the West, we have more than enough issues that we shouldn’t be looking down our noses at other cultures.

Probably why most of the world hates us.

 

[Noname Given]

Yesterday I binge watched the 10 episodes and I have to say I enjoyed it (definitely more than 2202).
I have to say though that they managed to irritate me again with the representation of female characters.

(SPOILER OF COURSE).

A certain level of fan service in anime is a given. Amen. Also, the infantilization of female characters is a trope that is unfortunately all too present. Every female character that appears (with a few exceptions) behaves like a 14-year-old schoolgirl. I know, it's Japan. There's nothing you can do about it.

But what happens when a mature woman appears, acting like a mature person in a position of leadership?

Well, we are told that this is BAD. AND EVIL.

Case in point:

no gif
Todo Shino
She is the head of the Earth Federation Forces Intelligence Bureau and also the younger sister of Minister Heikuro Todo.

Let's start with all the problems that are explained to us in detail.

She has CONSCIENTLY chosen not to have a family (I don't know how many times we are told this in all the episodes). This is BAD, because we are repeatedly told that having a family is THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THING IN THE UNIVERSE and is also a moral duty.

So some of her questionable choices are explained by the fact that she doesn't HAVE A FAMILY.

She has the highest position of power held by a woman that we have seen in the series (I mean among the earthlings, the aliens have queens, empresses or whatever). Let's say that between her and the woman immediately below in the hierarchical chain (a captain of an experimental ship who we are told got the position only through nepotism) there is an abyss.

And how is such a thing possible?!? Because she chose NOT TO HAVE A FAMILY, so her position is derived from a morally depraved choice, so is the role she holds.

In fact, all the women in the series, whatever role they have, immediately abandon it at the birth of a child to become full-time mothers.

Men can also be admirals, presidents or Masters of the Universe and be fathers at the same time. No problem for them.

And what has this abyss of depravity led to? THAT SHE IS A DIRTY TRAITOR, who sold the Earth to Desirium.

What else can you expect FROM A WOMAN WHO PREFERRED CAREER OVER FAMILY?!?

(There's basically a dialogue that goes like this: "Oh no, she betrayed us!!!", "Well we need to understand her, she doesn't have a family!" - I'm paraphrasing.)

(Note that the traitor men in the series are basically just money-obsessed entrepreneurs. There are also "noble" entrepreneurs who have resisted the temptation of easy money).

It's amazing how the Japanese mentality on gender issues is still stuck in the 50s.

I follow things with Yamato on some Japanese based sites, and they comment on the veiled social commentary that's on various issues in Japan in this Yamato remake - and right now Japan is having a birthrate problem and population implosion that causing issues for many rural area businesses; so yeah even they comment it's not surprising that in this practically every female character is after a guy and wanting a family; and yes, the 'evil' female is a spinster who gave up any want of a family to peruse her career goals.

 

[Skipper]

It will be up to them to work towards making their culture better. In the West, we have more than enough issues that we shouldn’t be looking down our noses at other cultures.

Probably why most of the world hates us.

Just to be clear, if I read a piece of Afghan fiction explaining how women are inferior to men and that it is right that they remain illiterate and locked up at home, I have no right to have an opinion and express it, since I cannot apply my "Western values"?

A simple yes or not will suffice.

 

[BillJ]

Just to be clear, if I read a piece of Afghan fiction explaining how women are inferior to men and that it is right that they remain illiterate and locked up at home, I have no right to have an opinion and express it, since I cannot apply my "Western values"?

A simple yes or not will suffice.

That is up to you, but you should maybe look at your own culture before rushing out to condemn others.

And don’t try to dictate how I answer a question.

 

[Skipper]

I follow things with Yamato on some Japanese based sites, and they comment on the veiled social commentary that's on various issues in Japan in this Yamato remake - and right now Japan is having a birthrate problem and population implosion that causing issues for many rural area businesses; so yeah even they comment it's not surprising that in this practically every female character is after a guy and wanting a family; and yes, the 'evil' female is a spinster who gave up any want of a family to peruse her career goals.

So basically a piece of pro-natalist propaganda. Because only women have to bear the burden of a family.

I know you can't make a statistic just by reading a few boards, but what do you think is the dominant opinion among Japanese viewers about how these themes are treated in Yamato? Are they happy? Do they disagree? Divided equally between two factions?

 

[Skipper]

That is up to you

we shouldn’t be looking down our noses at other cultures

So I shouldn't look down on "my nose" how women are treated in Afghanistan?

 

[137th Gebirg]

Just to be clear, if I read a piece of Afghan fiction explaining how women are inferior to men and that it is right that they remain illiterate and locked up at home, I have no right to have an opinion and express it, since I cannot apply my "Western values"?

A simple yes or not will suffice.

Sure you can. Just don't go to Afghanistan to do it. You might get taken to Kabul and thrown off the tallest building's rooftop.

This thread was about Space Battleship Yamato, right?

 

[BillJ]

So I shouldn't look down on "my nose" how women are treated in Afghanistan?

It is easy to be a progressive white knight when the only qualification is to complain about things you know you can’t do anything about.

Don’t worry, you’re credentials are safe.

 

[Noname Given]

So basically a piece of pro-natalist propaganda. Because only women have to bear the burden of a family.

I know you can't make a statistic just by reading a few boards, but what do you think is the dominant opinion among Japanese viewers about how these themes are treated in Yamato? Are they happy? Do they disagree? Divided equally between two factions?

I wouldn't hazard a guess because (like this BBS) they're jut expressing their own opinions on Yamato - and not really commenting on HOW they view the commentary; they're just noting it's there.

And ISDK how much anime you watch, but given how much the 'Harem' trope...

(IE - the male fantasy of every pretty girls the male protagonist meets instantly falling for him, which in turn makes him uneasy because he's often portrayed and innocent/clueless/not realizing this is the situation; or is just utterly flustered by it and NEVER takes advantage of it...)
^^^
And it's usually done in comedic fashion so it's hardly 'social commentary', but it's also a popular trope given how often it occurs in current modern Anime.)

But like others are saying, it's a different culture and as much as the producers of Yamato realize there is still a fanbase outside of Japan for Space Battleship Yamato; they realize a lot of that outside fanbase is way older so they a still primarily making it to reintroduce it to local Japanese audiences and fans. On most of those sites I mentioned the comments also go - "I watched the original with my dad..."

 

[BillJ]

Just a clarification. There is a world of difference between Japan and Afghanistan. One is a functioning modern democracy, the other no so much.

 

[Skipper]

Just a clarification. There is a world of difference between Japan and Afghanistan. One is a functioning modern democracy, the other no so much.

Forgive me, are you judging a type of government by Western values?

 

[BillJ]

Forgive me, are you judging a type of government by Western values?

No, not really. They are like everyone else, they will have to find their own way. Just making sure to note the difference before the White Knight returned.