Why the hate for Alex Kurtzman?

[Firebird]

Space anomalies aren't a magic spell

Space anomalies don’t exist in reality, so they can be whatever the writer wants them to be.

So, yeah, they are a magic spell.

 

[Campe]

Repeat to yourself “it’s just a show. I should really just relax.”

 

[Turtletrekker]

Warp speed is a magic spell. Transporters are a magic spell. Replicators are a magic spell. It's all in the incantation.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Repeat to yourself “it’s just a show. I should really just relax.”

If a Star Trek episode requires the MST3K mantra then it's failed.

 

[Citiprime]

Repeat to yourself “it’s just a show. I should really just relax.”

Moff's Law: Never try to dismiss critical analysis by asking, "Why can't you just enjoy it for what it is?"

Warp speed is a magic spell. Transporters are a magic spell. Replicators are a magic spell. It's all in the incantation.

And they work within the rules and limitations of the story. There's been 60 years of backstory about what warp drive and transporters can and can't do that allows the audience to accept it in a fictional world.

And when they don't and it becomes a fantasy, the story loses believability and some of your audience isn't able to suspend disbelief anymore.

I love SNW. But I hate "Subspace Rhapsody" because it's a musical. And I hate musicals. It's as simple as that. Doesn't matter which series would make a musical. I'd feel the same way about it. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp.

I'm someone who isn't a fan of musicals per se, but I can appreciate the beauty of them (e.g., the "Somewhere" scene in the 1961 version of West Side Story is an amazing moment of movie making that sells the tragic love story between those two characters).

I can understand the appeal of "Subspace Rhapsody" if you like watching these characters in a whacky situation. But it does not work for me as a story or as a musical.

The story is nothing but a thin excuse to make the characters sing. And the music and performances don't justify the plot. If I'm judging it as an episode of television trying to propel a plot, it has as much substance as a bad Glee episode.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Warp speed is a magic spell. Transporters are a magic spell. Replicators are a magic spell. It's all in the incantation.

When the spell fails

 

[Campe]

If a Star Trek episode requires the MST3K mantra then it's failed.

No. It means that if you can take seriously some of the bullshit that Star Trek has dropped on us over the years, a spatial anomaly causing the crew to sing is minor at best.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

No. It means that if you can take seriously some of the bullshit that Star Trek has dropped on us over the years, a spatial anomaly causing the crew to sing is minor at best.

It's clearly not minor or I wouldn't be bothered by it! And every time someone comes up with an example of something just as bad it's from an episode no one likes.

 

[Campe]

It's clearly not minor or I wouldn't be bothered by it!

Or you're just taking it too seriously.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

It's clearly not minor or I wouldn't be bothered by it! And every time someone comes up with an example of something just as bad it's from an episode no one likes.

I was under the impression TVH is quite liked and flying around the sun really fast to time travel is a bit more space magic than quantum improbablity

 

[James Cole]

More like people aren't allowing themselves to like SNW. I guarantee, had there been a musical episode on a Trek series where Terry Matalas was showrunner, everyone who says they hate Subspace Rhapsody would be tripping over themselves to say it was the best Trek EVER!!!

FWIW, I gave "Vox" (PICARD 3x09) either a 5 or 6 out of 10, and it (a) was directed by Terry Matalas, (b) resurrected the Enterprise-D, and (c) had that fucking awesome TNG theme song remix. If Matalas ever gave us a cringe Klingon boy band episode, I'd give it a 1 out of 10 and hope he just conceded on that to the higher up executives in exchange for something else incredibly important.

Moff's Law: Never try to dismiss critical analysis by asking, "Why can't you just enjoy it for what it is?"

This BBS needs AI integration at the next update...

And they work within the rules and limitations of the story. There's been 60 years of backstory about what warp drive and transporters can and can't do that allows the audience to accept it in a fictional world.

And when they don't and it becomes a fantasy, the story loses believability and some of your audience isn't able to suspend disbelief anymore.

SNW especially falls into the post-ironic nihilist singularity of nothing really matters, right? Star Trek is full of pseudo-science, yes. But consistent, to the point you should be able to foreshadow plot developments. Without this, anything and everything can be a deus ex machina. A lazy level to pull to sidestep poor writing.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Moff's Law: Never try to dismiss critical analysis by asking, "Why can't you just enjoy it for what it is?"

And they work within the rules and limitations of the story. There's been 60 years of backstory about what warp drive and transporters can and can't do that allows the audience to accept it in a fictional world.

And when they don't and it becomes a fantasy, the story loses believability and some of your audience isn't able to suspend disbelief anymore.

I'm someone who isn't a fan of musicals per se, but I can appreciate the beauty of them (e.g., the "Somewhere" scene in the 1961 version of West Side Story is an amazing moment of movie making that sells the tragic love story between those two characters).

I can understand the appeal of "Subspace Rhapsody" if you like watching these characters in a whacky situation. But it does not work for me as a story or as a musical.

The story is nothing but a thin excuse to make the characters sing. And the music and performances don't justify the plot. If I'm judging it as an episode of television trying to propel a plot, it has as much substance as a bad Glee episode.

It was the most character development heavy episode of the entire show thus far, and that is always far more important to me than the science / technobabble McGuffin, the alien of the week or the action set piece. And I don't consider what happened to the crew in this episode to be really any different than what happened to the crew of DS9 in Dramatis Personae or the crew of Voyager in that World War II / holodeck episode with the Hirogen.

 

[James Cole]

Moff's Law: Never try to dismiss critical analysis by asking, "Why can't you just enjoy it for what it is?"

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

There was also a sizable viewership drop off between the SNW musical and the season 2 finale, so it seems not that many people were Exited for Next Product(TM).

 

[Campe]

Was there a sizable increase before the musical? Gotta look at all datasets here. This was an event episode and I would not be surprised if that was the case.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

People saw the word musical and made assumptions. Holodeck scenarios run amok well hey sure. But a musical how dare they?

Random characters singing in an episode for no reason is fine but seven songs with massively important character growth lyrics well that's just going too far.

People wanted to hate it before it even came out

 

[James Cole]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

I'd only seen it before with the sound off and a minimized thumbnail video. But this... wtf... how are the lights even syncing up?

 

[fireproof78]

And when they don't and it becomes a fantasy, the story loses believability and some of your audience isn't able to suspend disbelief anymore.

I think it depends greatly on the rules. TOS vs. TNG warp drive are two different animals in terms of speed, use and plot device.

There are certain aspects of Trek tech that lose me faster than anomaly of the week.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

I'd only seen it before with the sound off and a minimized thumbnail video. But this... wtf... how are the lights even syncing up?

So you watched part of one song on mute with no context...

Now if you watch the whole episode you'll see the crew are compelled to manipulate ship's systems to facilitate the rules of reality. In one song the grav plating is turned off for example.

 

[ananta]

It's because it doesn't make any sense to me. It's an explanation that doesn't explain anything.

Most musicals don't need to establish a reason for the music and singing, because people aren't really singing, it's just the way the story is presented. But Star Trek decided that it was really happening which means every single thing that happens has a big question mark over it.

Space anomalies aren't a magic spell, they don't just manipulate people into coming up with lyrics on the fly and singing along with music that everyone else is hearing. You can't just use that as a technobabble answer and expect people to be satisfied with that. Even The Flash came up with a more plausible reason for its musical episode, and that used literal super powers.

In fact, they should've used that as their inspiration instead of Buffy, and had crew members connected up with a neural link that put them into someone's dreamworld for Star Trek reasons. They're hearing music the person already has in their head and singing their own inner thoughts because of the direct connection to their subconscious, or whatever. Dreams don't need so many explanations.

Completely agree. “The anomaly did it” is not an adequate explanation for me. Why would a space anomaly somehow pipe through Earth showtunes and pop music from a certain era? It makes no sense. Trying to explain it away with technobabble is like the Streisand effect; it’s just calling attention to the flimsiness of the whole premise.

Trek is a series that relies on suspension of disbelief. That’s how we can accept warp drive, transporters, replicators and Klingons etc. Suspension of disbelief will only stretch so far before it snaps, however. Obviously, different people have their own comfort zone when it comes to suspension of disbelief. Some people obviously don’t think there was anything silly about the episode. I did.

Farscape did an episode with wacky animated Looney Tunes sequences and it worked. It didn’t try to convince you it was actually somehow happening; it happened in Crichton’s altered state of consciousness.

I could totally have accepted a musical if they hadn’t tried to present it as happening in actual “reality”. Make it an altered state of consciousness, a shared dream, the effect of an alien consciousness like Q. Make it a non-canon episode like a Simpsons Treehouse of Horror type of thing. Don’t just tell us “somehow the anomaly did it”. That’s so lazy.

Incidentally, this episode also made me realise that the character arcs on SNW hinge far too much on who’s dating or got the hots for who. I’m now very much aware this is not the show for me. That’s another story, though. I did give it a fair shot.

 

[James Cole]

Now if you watch the whole episode you'll see the crew are compelled to manipulate ship's systems to facilitate the rules of reality. In one song the grav plating is turned off for example.

Just the scene in isolation prima facie dooms the entire episode, even if the rest of it somehow was a 10/10. The optics scream this is a bad idea. Pure shark jumping territory.

When some play the "memberberry" card as an offhand response to PICARD season 3, the counter move for SNW can be "Klingon boy band".