What is your personal head canon?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

We do? They do?

Well, some Romulans do, since they do return to Vulcan, change it's name to Ni'Var, and that planet eventually rejoins the Federation.

Ni'Var was part of the UFP before "The Burn".

Archer: The Federation. You've mentioned them before.

Daniels: Vulcans, Andorians, Ithenites, Klingons, dozens of species, including humans, all unified in a powerful alliance.

Given that Daniels is from far into the future, it doesn't surprise me that eventually. all the local neighbors join the UFP.

Everybody would get far more powerful once they are apart of the UFP.

Especially after the Dominion War and the events.

 

[Shawnster]

Thanks. I've only seen ENT once in it's entirety. I don't have it as memorized as older Trek.

 

[Rmac]

Seeing people talk about the pakled's I wanted to share my theory on Nausicaans. When we hear them speak in the 24th century they speak in rather broken english, Like this. Wheras in the 22nd century they speak as any other race would Like this. My theory for this discrepency is not because they got much stupider but that the Nausicaans in the 24th century ARE really speaking broken english. After 200 years bordering the Federation many Nausicaans may learn english as a second language.

 

[kkt]

My personal head canon? Garak recommended Bashir to Sloan.

Hm. Would that have been an attempt to help Section 31, or to hurt it? Bashir might have broken Section 31 wide open, losing a lot of their assets and unable to function nearly as effectively as before. I'm not sure which motivation was more likely - or why Sloan would trust Garak enough to listen to his suggestion.

 

[Lord Garth]

Hm. Would that have been an attempt to help Section 31, or to hurt it?

Yes.

 

[Lord Garth]

why Sloan would trust Garak enough to listen to his suggestion.

I don't think Sloan would trust Garak, I think he would trust that Garak wants the Dominion defeated and that they have a common enemy. Section 31 wanted to eliminate the Founders and Garak attempted to do the same in "Broken Link".

Bashir was interested in being a spy, as evidenced by his James Bond inspired holosuite program. Sloan would look at Bashir's record and find some things suspicious and so would put him to the test to see if these concerns are well-founded or not. Then he concluded that Bashir does have the interests of the Federation at heart but is only prepared to go so far. I'd say that Garak and Sloan both believed that of Bashir. So, they have the same opinion of Bashir and they have the same agenda against the Founders.

At the end of the day, though, Garak is out for himself and what works best for Cardassia. He thought it would be best for Cardassia to be out from underneath the Dominion's thumb. So, he would side with the Federation for as long as (and only as long as) it would be beneficial to him, and he'd certainly take an interest in Section 31, since they're willing to do what Starfleet isn't. Sloan, in turn, would've been curious about the only Cardassian living on Deep Space Nine and one of the only Cardassians to be considered an enemy of the state by Dukat.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The one thing I always found odd with Section 31 was the lack of Alien members.

Not really, I mean the slim legal foundation that they claim to have was grandfathered in from the UE Starfleet Charter. It's worth noting that the one of the few periods of "modern Trek" where we didn't see Section 31 was during the early part of the 32nd C era of Discovery when United Earth wasn't part of the Federation or Starfleet.

Hm. Would that have been an attempt to help Section 31, or to hurt it?

It's Garak... you really think he picked one reason in advance?

 

[kkt]

Garak does want the Dominion to lose the war... but also wants a postwar situation in which the Federation is not the preeminent power in the Alpha Quadrant. Section 31 does want the Federation to be the superpower. Garak and Section 31 are therefore going to have little trust for each other and only limited areas in which they can cooperate.

 

[Farscape One]

Agreed.

Garak is a survivor and a patriot. He would go along with an alliance with Section 31 only as far as it fits his goals of either surviving or helping Cardassia or both. He definitely wouldn't trust them.

Having said all that, I do find the idea of him and Section 31 working together on something very interesting. A shame Sloan was killed off... because a Sloan and Garak Section 31 movie would have been an infinitely better adventure than what we got with the current movie.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Garak does want the Dominion to lose the war... but also wants a postwar situation in which the Federation is not the preeminent power in the Alpha Quadrant.

Absolutely on the first point. I'm not entirely sure he's opposed to the second point, certainly I would suggest that the Federation being the "top dog" is probably his "back up option" (over the Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Breen et al) if Cardassia can't be the preeminent power... which I would also suggest that he's pragmatic enough to know at this point that they can't be.

Section 31 does want the Federation to be the superpower. Garak and Section 31 are therefore going to have little trust for each other and only limited areas in which they can cooperate.

Garak's pretty flexible, spycraft rarely operates on a binary solution and politics is often similar nuanced, so I suspect they'd only clash if one did something specifically against the interests of the other, which is likely rare given all the various threats that they agree are a problem.

 

[Farscape One]

Not really, I mean the slim legal foundation that they claim to have was grandfathered in from the UE Starfleet Charter. It's worth noting that the one of the few periods of "modern Trek" where we didn't see Section 31 was during the early part of the 32nd C era of Discovery when United Earth wasn't part of the Federation or Starfleet.



It's Garak... you really think he picked one reason in advance?

Section 31 has not been seen in the 32nd century yet. I'm not holding my breath that they'll not somehow have it added here, too. ACADEMY is still coming up.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Section 31 has not been seen in the 32nd century yet. I'm not holding my breath that they'll not somehow have it added here, too. ACADEMY is still coming up.

Yeah, but as United Earth is back in Starfleet again, that wouldn't undermine my point.

 

[Farscape One]

Yeah, but as United Earth is back in Starfleet again, that wouldn't undermine my point.

True, and that was a good observation.

Starfleet was originally an Earth only organization. Then it became a part of the Federation. Starfleet has been a part of the Federation for the better part of a millennium, as far as we know. When Earth left, their focus would still be the Federation itself. (They likely figured Earth would rejoin one day.)

I guess my point is that Section 31 has been a Federation organization far longer than an Earth organization, so that will be their priority.

Besides, considering Earth's location and Federation space being all around it (as far as we know, it may be different than what we saw up to the end of the 24th century), having the Federation safeguarded also safeguards Earth.



Personally, I don't want Section 31 to return... not with the current era of writers. This is one thing that they definitely don't do or understand well. Their use in DISCO and the SECTION 31 movie clearly indicate this.

 

[Moonglum]

My personal head canon? Garak recommended Bashir to Sloan.

Mine?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I guess my point is that Section 31 has been a Federation organization far longer than an Earth organization, so that will be their priority.

I had the opposite thought, if only because yours is the logical, reasoned option and S31 strikes me as mostly recruiting fanatics (and the generally violent and amoral/immoral but that's somewhat beside the point) who will often do the exact opposite just on principle IMO.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Was that where some supposedly reformed Terra Prime members landed, too?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I doubt any of the leadership would have been accepted, but I'd be shocked if none of the "rank-and-file" members ended there.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think they don't have Section 31 in the 32nd Century. Even though he's Starfleet Intelligence, Kovich effectively fills the role that someone from S31 would've: The mysterious agent concerned about the safety of the Federation. Except he's a more benevolent and moral person. Can I imagine seeing Kovich in SFA? Well, he was in "All Is Possible". That's the fourth season Discovery episode where Kovich recruits Tilly to work for Starfleet Academy.

Long story short: Do I think we'll see Kovich in SFA? It's possible. Do I think we'll see Section 31? Probably not.

New head-canon: I think Section 31 was dissolved at some point between Picard and The Burn. If they were still around during The Burn, they would've tried to find a way to keep Earth and Ni'Var from leaving the Federation. Even if they have to engineer a propaganda campaign to keep the people of those worlds from wanting to secede. I can't believe they'd be okay with founding members leaving.

 

[FredH]

There is a starship type that, so far as is known, is unique to the Klingons—

— the Battle Hospital Ship.

The unofficial motto of all BHS crews is, “Let’s make some patients!”

Okay, at least in the realm of non-canon, apparently it’s not just the Klingons. Retro Badger Gaming over on YouTube has a Federation hospital ship that keeps going into battle and winning:

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[FredH]

I think they don't have Section 31 in the 32nd Century. Even though he's Starfleet Intelligence, Kovich effectively fills the role that someone from S31 would've: The mysterious agent concerned about the safety of the Federation. Except he's a more benevolent and moral person. Can I imagine seeing Kovich in SFA? Well, he was in "All Is Possible". That's the fourth season Discovery episode where Kovich recruits Tilly to work for Starfleet Academy.

Long story short: Do I think we'll see Kovich in SFA? It's possible. Do I think we'll see Section 31? Probably not.

New head-canon: I think Section 31 was dissolved at some point between Picard and The Burn. If they were still around during The Burn, they would've tried to find a way to keep Earth and Ni'Var from leaving the Federation. Even if they have to engineer a propaganda campaign to keep the people of those worlds from wanting to secede. I can't believe they'd be okay with founding members leaving.

I would hope you’re right; all else aside, it’s hard to imagine a particular organization still existing essentially unchanged after about a thousand years. But then again, that should go for Starfleet too, and it’s still there and not all that different, so you never know.