What is your favorite pairing involving Kes (or do you think none is)?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They don't know what the word means.

Indeed.

Now I'm not disputing that Neelix may have been a tad needy and clingy. But I also believed that he genuinely loved Kes. He knew she was (by her own species' standards) an adult. He would never hurt her. And he took it pretty well when she broke it off with him.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Neelix has his problems, but he isn't that bad. And, honestly, Kes wasn't willing to let him go either- But in another way. She wasn't jealous, but she willing to let another person die to get Neelix back. And I really cannot escape comparison to Anakin Skywalker...

 

[Lynx]

He was also in uniform in "Year of Hell" and "Before and After".

Yes, that's right. I forgot to mention that.

There were some decent choices as a partner for Seven on Voyager. Chakotay simply wasn't one of them.

No, the Chakotay-Seven relationship was unrealistic and forced in some way.
But I get the same feeling about it as I have about another horriible event, the feeling that those in charge once again decided to show the "finger" to the fans, in this case the J/C-ers who wanted a relationship between Chakotay and Janeway.

I actually think Neelix and Kes make a cute couple. I was sad when they broke up.

In a way they were.
But they started to drift apart as soon as they came on board Voyager. Kes's life turned into another direction. She wanted to learn and explore, she got new friends on the ship, got responsibility as an important crewmember and started to work with The Doctor.

Neelix on the other hand felt like an amateur in a group of professionals. He was also deeply unhappy due to evente earlier in his life and because of all that he started to come up with all this things about making other crewmemders happy, being a magnigficent Chef, Expert on the Delta Quadrant, Morale Officer, ambassador, journalist and all the whims he could come up with to make him more secure and hide the pain inside him.

But by doing so, he also beame very self-centered. He also got paranoid and jealous which made the relation to kes to fell apart.

The only poblem I see with the relation finally breaking up is that it should have been broken up already in season 2, some time after Parturition and should have been more realistic, taking part during 2-3 episodes and not like what we saw in Warlord when Kes who is possessed by Tieran breaks up with him.

On that, I certinely agree.

I personally like Seven/Harry the best (especially if it's an AU where Kes stayed on Voyager... some of the best things I wrote for Voyager was Kes talking to both Seven and Harry and trying to explain and set things straight after that scene in "Revulsion")

Seven-Harry could have been something.
But on the other hand, Harry was very true to Libby.

It makes me mad when people keep calling Neelix a pedophile because he was with Kes. What the hell? Kes may have been an Ocampa, and thus only meant to live a few years, but she was still an adult.

I agree, that's just narrow-minded thinking to do so.
I remember writing a lengthy defence for Neelix considering all that crap in a post on this forum many years ago. Unfortunately I haven't saved it.

Personally I like Neelix. He was a bit weird sometimes but actually a nice guy who wanted everybodys best. There was a lot of pain inside him but he tried to fight those feelings by trying to make other people happy.

I didn't like that they dumped him just three episodes from the end of the series. he should have followed the ship back to federation space, maybe started a restaurant on Deep Space Nine or something similar instead of ending up on that hellhole asteroid with a lot of wayward Talaxians.

Yeah, I don;t understand that either. I guess they are... limited in their perspective.

They don't know what the word means.

Indeed.

Now I'm not disputing that Neelix may have been a tad needy and clingy. But I also believed that he genuinely loved Kes. He knew she was (by her own species' standards) an adult. He would never hurt her. And he took it pretty well when she broke it off with him.

He did love her.
Unfortunately his jealousy and suspicions ruined that.

But I do have a solution for Neelix too!

And this is not just another example of my twisted sense of humor. I do think that Neelix and Samantha Wildman could be a great couple!

 

[Oddish]

But I get the same feeling about it as I have about another horriible event, the feeling that those in charge once again decided to show the "finger" to the fans, in this case the J/C-ers who wanted a relationship between Chakotay and Janeway.

Seems like, late in Voyager's run, the showrunners were telling everyone who had a different vision of the show to go screw themselves. Kes fans, Harry Kim advocates, and J/C shippers alike.

Seven-Harry could have been something.
But on the other hand, Harry was very true to Libby.

Harry had more disastrously unsuccessful romances than any other character on the show. I think only Worf was unluckier in love.

Personally I like Neelix. He was a bit weird sometimes but actually a nice guy who wanted everybodys best. There was a lot of pain inside him but he tried to fight those feelings by trying to make other people happy.

I like him too.

I didn't like that they dumped him just three episodes from the end of the series. he should have followed the ship back to federation space, maybe started a restaurant on Deep Space Nine or something similar instead of ending up on that hellhole asteroid with a lot of wayward Talaxians.

At least he got an ending. Except for Janeway, no one else on Voyager did, until well into the Kurtzman era. B'Elanna still hasn't, and Harry's "ending" doubled down on the prior efforts to humiliate the character.

And this is not just another example of my twisted sense of humor. I do think that Neelix and Samantha Wildman could be a great couple!

There were worse choices. They were bound together by Naomi, plus Sam obviously was fine with romancing guys who were actually alien in aspect.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Harry had more disastrously unsuccessful romances than any other character on the show. I think only Worf was unluckier in love.

Yeah, he was really unlucky in this regard. This is actually a good reason for me to ship Harry/Seven, as he would stop chasing other women then.

 

[Oddish]

Harry/Seven isn't a bad pairing, though he'd need to be developed a bit before he could handle someone like her.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Developed... yes. But he would develop, if he would be allowed to.

Plus, I really think Kes staying would help him develop. At the end of Season 3, Kes was now a very experienced Ocampa (how experienced exactly depends on how much she remembers from "Before and After, but still much).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And this is not just another example of my twisted sense of humor. I do think that Neelix and Samantha Wildman could be a great couple!

She's married. Neelix isn't a homewrecker.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Yes and this is one problem I have with the pairing. However, her husband lived on DS9, so it's possible he died in one of the battles there. Or one of the battles with Defiant.

 

[Oddish]

She's married. Neelix isn't a homewrecker.

Good point. But her husband could have been lost in the Dominion war, as Bohani suggested. Or, he might have died of old age; if K'tarians mature faster than humans, they might also have shorter lifespans.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I prefer to err on the side of caution, as it were.

Meaning, unless there's evidence that Greskrendregtk has died (which there isn't), I like to think that he lives and that he is happily reunited with his wife and daughter when Voyager returns home.

Happy endings do still have their place, after all!

And while Gres may have been stationed on DS9 when Voyager left, the Dominion war is still well in the future. There's plenty of time for him to take another assignment elsewhere, in the meantime.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Well, while I do not support this ship really, it is a solution. It especially can be used in one's fanficiton (I know Lynx writes some, as do I). And there is no evidence to the contrary. In such cases, you believe what you want.

 

[Lynx]

She's married. Neelix isn't a homewrecker.

I prefer to err on the side of caution, as it were.

Meaning, unless there's evidence that Greskrendregtk has died (which there isn't), I like to think that he lives and that he is happily reunited with his wife and daughter when Voyager returns home.

Happy endings do still have their place, after all!

And while Gres may have been stationed on DS9 when Voyager left, the Dominion war is still well in the future. There's plenty of time for him to take another assignment elsewhere, in the meantime.

Ahhhh..........but old Neelix is a tricky one. You'll never know what he's planning!
And we know what happened to Kathryn Janeway's and Mark Johnson's relationship after Voyager was lost.

No honestly, I have to give you some points here.

What I know. Samantha and Greskrendtregk were happily re-united when Voyager came home. It's mentioned in the book Homecoming by Christie Golden.

And since I do have a certain respect for "canon" which I do think is necessary for not turning Star trek into a mess of characters who are dead in one story, alive in another and all that with relations in one book or episode and not in another, I'm afraid that I have to ditch the otherwise great idea of pairing off Neelix with Samantha Wildman.

My passion is to restore characters who have been destroyed or mistreated by certain writers of episodes and certain authors of books, characters like Kes, Garak and Gowron.

I'm not out to ruin and destroy characters or their families.

So I have to think of something else to make Neelix happy and restore him from being stranded on an asteroid in the middle of nowhere and die of boredom while longing for the days he spent on Voyager.

As for Greskrendtregk, he could most likely be an interesting character to have in an episode, a book or a story.

Unfortunately I never saw a Ktarian on the station Deep Space Nine, neither before Voyager left the station at Stardate 48308.2 (Friday 23rd April 2371) which is some time before the DS9 episode Meridian in season 3 and not after it either.

But that doesn't mean that he wasn't on the station. My guess is that he did spend some time there, maybe a year or so before Voyager took off to the Delta Quadrant and that he remained there for some time after Voyager had left.

Anyway, I will keep my eyes open for Ktarians when I re-watch DS).

 

[Oddish]

Meaning, unless there's evidence that Greskrendregtk has died (which there isn't), I like to think that he lives and that he is happily reunited with his wife and daughter when Voyager returns home.

As do I. But if a person writes a fanfiction that features those two, there are worse pairings.

What I know. Samantha and Greskrendtregk were happily re-united when Voyager came home. It's mentioned in the book Homecoming by Christie Golden.

Yeah, I read it. It's a pretty decent read. It also has Harry reunite with his girlfriend, who was just as unlucky in love at home as he was on Voyager.

So I have to think of something else to make Neelix happy and restore him from being stranded on an asteroid in the middle of nowhere and die of boredom while longing for the days he spent on Voyager.

With the Quantum Slipstream drive now working, that would be a simple matter. He could even bring his adopted family with him, so best of both worlds.

 

[Lynx]

As do I. But if a person writes a fanfiction that features those two, there are worse pairings.

Yeah, I read it. It's a pretty decent read. It also has Harry reunite with his girlfriend, who was just as unlucky in love at home as he was on Voyager.

With the Quantum Slipstream drive now working, that would be a simple matter. He could even bring his adopted family with him, so best of both worlds.

Which is something I've been thinking of for a while.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I am curious if it could have been somehow connected in one of the ideas we've been discussing.

 

[rocketscientist]

She's married. Neelix isn't a homewrecker.

Nope, Neelix is a space-truck driving man who hangs around highschools.

 

[rocketscientist]

It makes me mad when people keep calling Neelix a pedophile because he was with Kes. What the hell? Kes may have been an Ocampa, and thus only meant to live a few years, but she was still an adult.

Well, that's what Neelix essentially is. I mean, Kes, even as an Ocampan, had only 2 years of life experiences, right? How can you not think that that isn't an improper relationship?

Do any of you guys have daughters? I mean, I don't think you need one to know the whole Neelix-Kes thing looks really really creepy and bad. It was an extremely bad call by the creators. I'm surprised Pillar and Taylor thought this pairing of these two characters was a good idea. It was horrible!

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Sp, you say Ocampa should not reproduce at all, because, by the time they would live long enought to get to that human age?

While I would prefer the Ocampa to age normally, Kes is clearly a mature individual. From another point of view, a Vulcan (who get mature at 30 years, if I am not mistaken) might react the same way to a relationship involving a 20 years old human. It is perfectly normal among humans, but for Vulans, it is not (or shgould not be).

 

[rocketscientist]

Sp, you say Ocampa should not reproduce at all, because, by the time they would live long enought to get to that human age?

While I would prefer the Ocampa to age normally, Kes is clearly a mature individual. From another point of view, a Vulcan (who get mature at 30 years, if I am not mistaken) might react the same way to a relationship involving a 20 years old human. It is perfectly normal among humans, but for Vulans, it is not (or shgould not be).

The only being Kes should've been paired with is another Ocamapan, obviously. The relationship with Neelix was one-sided. He took advantage of Kes, who only had 2 years of life experience and no knowledge of the outside world. If he was a real man, with ethics, he would never ever had had a romantic relationship with her to begin with.

In any case, again, the entire basis for the Kes character with such an abbreviated lifespan was absurd. .