The Delta Flyers now covering DS9

[Tosk]

Crossover.

The poor picture quality leads to some funny mistaken assumptions. One is no big deal, Garrett thinks the Intendant's "headband" is some kind of soft material.

But the other made me laugh, Armin mistaking the shitty de-interlacing on the streaming version for an effect that Livingston did deliberately.

Edit: Two more Armin-isms.

He mentions "there are no Bajorans" as though this is significant...but fails to notice multiple Bajorans being in the episode. (He does account for maybe missing background players, but at least one of them is front and center.)

He also brings up a "goof" that Quark calls Kira "Major". Whereas I'd say there's no problem assuming Quark already knows this info as we know from dialogue that he's already been told about her. (Not to mention that Kira is wearing a rank insignia that may very well be consistent across the two universes.)

Edit edit: Nana thankfully is not shy about explaining why Armin's complaints about character motivations aren't always the only way of looking at a situation. She makes me wish she guested more often.

Edit edit edit. Has RDM really never come across the word intendant in his whole life? I'm very surprised sometimes by these people.

 

[Crewman6]

Crossover.

The poor picture quality leads to some funny mistaken assumptions. One is no big deal, Garrett thinks the Intendant's "headband" is some kind of soft material.

But the other made me laugh, Armin mistaking the shitty de-interlacing on the streaming version for an effect that Livingston did deliberately.

Edit: Two more Armin-isms.

He mentions "there are no Bajorans" as though this is significant...but fails to notice multiple Bajorans being in the episode. (He does account for maybe missing background players, but at least one of them is front and center.)

He also brings up a "goof" that Quark calls Kira "Major". Whereas I'd say there's no problem assuming Quark already knows this info as we know from dialogue that he's already been told about her. (Not to mention that Kira is wearing a rank insignia that may very well be consistent across the two universes.)

Edit edit: Nana thankfully is not shy about explaining why Armin's complaints about character motivations aren't always the only way of looking at a situation. She makes me wish she guested more often.

Edit edit edit. Has RDM really never come across the word intendant in his whole life? I'm very surprised sometimes by these people.

It was great having Nana on the show again. Armin's stupidity was a bit muted this time around and I kinda agree with him about the "major" comment. It's possible he heard about the second Kira, but he does use the word in a somewhat familiar way, so I'm actually siding with him on this one nitpick.

But, man, the full version....that was a long ass episode. Took me several days to finish it. I really do like the "full", aka "bonus Patreon" versions of the podcast, but they can be an endurance test.

I hope Nana and Andrew Robinson come back at least once a season. I'd love for an appearance by Siddig. Colm Meany is probably unrealistic. I'd also love Cirroc to appear, but Jake gets basically no signature episodes (except the Visitor, where he's mostly played by Tony Todd.).

 

[Tosk]

It's possible he heard about the second Kira

It's not just possible, it's explicit in the episode.

Quark "You certainly are the splitting image of the Intendant, just as they said."

And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense that someone like Quark would not feel comfortable (or be allowed!) to call the Intendant "Kira". So he'd use whatever alternative was available.

 

[Crewman6]

It's not just possible, it's explicit in the episode.

Quark "You certainly are the splitting image of the Intendant, just as they said."

And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense that someone like Quark would not feel comfortable (or be allowed!) to call the Intendant "Kira". So he'd use whatever alternative was available.

Good points!

 

[Tosk]

But, man, the full version....that was a long ass episode. Took me several days to finish it. I really do like the "full", aka "bonus Patreon" versions of the podcast, but they can be an endurance test.

Out of curiosity, endurance test just due to the length or something else?

I only got part way through Tribunal this week. I think I need to have another break. The weeks where Terry indulges Garrett's tendencies tend to grate.

 

[Crewman6]

Out of curiosity, endurance test just due to the length or something else?

Length, mostly. And one can only stomach so much idle chatter about Star Trek in one sitting.

 

[Crewman6]

I only got part way through Tribunal this week. I think I need to have another break. The weeks where Terry indulges Garrett's tendencies tend to grate.

Sometimes I think Garrett is the least funny person on the planet.

 

[Crewman6]

In the "Second Skin" episode, the "bonus material" featured another appearance by Nana Visitor, who is averaging one visit a season.

She didn't do the recap, which makes sense. I'm sure the reacps are tedious to actually do and she probably just didn't want to sit through that lengthy process just to explain the plot.

But the real hilarious revelation was how Robbie and Garrett (again) commended DS9 for its serialized, long-form storytelling, while admitting that, not only did they never do that on Voyager, but they often did they opposite. They joked that their characters' POV could flip-flop between episodes and that they would sometimes even have the opposite opinion on something they had previously established.

Amusing to note that Voyager's sloppy-as-hell, nothing-matters writing style didn't go unnoticed by those who had to actually say it.

 

[Tosk]

Anything good happen in the last four or five episodes? I've fallen off again.

 

[VDCNI]

The Civil Defense episode is heavy going.

Other than Garrett they are very pedantic about a fun romp episode.

 

[Sakonna]

Do I love the pod on "Meridian" this week ($3/month subscription version). The bad episodes can really prompt the most interesting discussions.

There was a period of adjustment when Garrett first took on the researcher role, but he has been nailing it for awhile now. His curation of what's worth bringing up and what isn't now strikes me as totally on point.

They mentioned Armin will be on for "Defiant" next week. I am so curious what the assignments for "Fascination" and "Past Tense, Part I" will be. Terry has incidentally mentioned "Fascination" more than once during the course of this pod, so it seems like that was a memorable episode for her. But she's so heavy in "Past Tense" and Quark is barely glimpsed in it (though maybe they'll just have her on for Part II and that'll cover it, it would be nice to get both of their takes on this overall story - it's a striking one to revisit right now).

 

[Crewman6]

The Civil Defense episode is heavy going.

Other than Garrett they are very pedantic about a fun romp episode.

Civil Defense isn't really that good, though. Is it the "worst episode to date", as Robbie said? Well, no. But it's not really about anything at all except "shit happens" and, while there are a few amusing character moments, it's pretty flat and strains credulity more than once. I remember enjoying it mildly on first viewing, but every single time I've tried to revisit it, I don't make it five minutes before shutting it off.

 

[Crewman6]

Do I love the pod on "Meridian" this week ($3/month subscription version). The bad episodes can really prompt the most interesting discussions.

There was a period of adjustment when Garrett first took on the researcher role, but he has been nailing it for awhile now. His curation of what's worth bringing up and what isn't now strikes me as totally on point.

They mentioned Armin will be on for "Defiant" next week. I am so curious what the assignments for "Fascination" and "Past Tense, Part I" will be. Terry has incidentally mentioned "Fascination" more than once during the course of this pod, so it seems like that was a memorable episode for her. But she's so heavy in "Past Tense" and Quark is barely glimpsed in it (though maybe they'll just have her on for Part II and that'll cover it, it would be nice to get both of their takes on this overall story - it's a striking one to revisit right now).

I liked the Meridian episode, too, and I was glad that Garrett (rightly) named it as weakest episode to date.

Amusing that both Garrett and Robbie hit their personal "worst" recently, with Robbie hating on "Civil Defense", while Garrett chose a more deserving target with "Meridian." And even Terry rightly criticizes the show's glaring weaknesses and gives it a low rating.

Robbie, while acknowledging its shortcomings, still awards it a staggeringly high 6.9, which is patently ridiculous for such a soft episodes.

It was an interesting listen, though. I almost considered skipping it because it's such a lame ep, but it was worth the time.

Still enjoying the episodes, though I do wish they did a few more four-handers with both Terry and Armin at the same time. Both bring a very different energy to the proceedings.

 

[Crewman6]

There was a period of adjustment when Garrett first took on the researcher role, but he has been nailing it for awhile now. His curation of what's worth bringing up and what isn't now strikes me as totally on point.

I agree. He's dipping heavily into "Memory Alpha" and selects trivia and tidbits that are generally very relevant and enliven the conversation.

Interesting that he digs up an old Terry quote about Meridian from way back that accurately mirrors her current thinking about the episodes.

It is amusing when Armin and/or Terry are the guests on episodes which barely feature them. Defiant only has them in the most fleeting of moments.

They don't always go back and forth, though. IIRC, there have been times when Terry or Armin has done more than one in a row. So hopefully Terry does both Past Tense episodes, as Quark is barely in 'em.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

They didn't like Civil Defense? That's in the top 25% of DS9 episodes on IMDb! More importantly it's in my top 10.

Are they sure they didn't watch Fascination instead by mistake?

 

[Sakonna]

Amusing that both Garrett and Robbie hit their personal "worst" recently, with Robbie hating on "Civil Defense", while Garrett chose a more deserving target with "Meridian." And even Terry rightly criticizes the show's glaring weaknesses and gives it a low rating.

I predict Robbie is going to hate "Defiant." Having just rewatched it, I thought the end of it had all his triggers - plotting that gets messy, threads left unresolved, characters emotionally detached from the circumstances (all those Maquis terrorists who just abandon their suicide mission in favor of turning themselves in to prison), doesn't feature the whole cast.

It is amusing when Armin and/or Terry are the guests on episodes which barely feature them. Defiant only has them in the most fleeting of moments.

I also love their attitude about being light in an episode. I think it was in the pod for "A Man Alone" or "Past Prologue" that one of the questions for Terry was about Dax being barely present, and what Dax scenes did she think should have been added? And her response was none, "I didn't miss me."

Armin also got some questions early about: is he annoyed to have to do all this makeup for a one or two line scene? Or is he bothered when Quark gets little cameos and is not more heavily featured? And he seemed to find it absurd. He was thrilled to have a job, and had plenty of things to fill time with on the off days.

Armin has been on at least one pod for an episode he didn't appear in at all ("Paradise"). I thought it didn't hamper him in the least. He had a great analysis of all the ways that episode fails.

They don't always go back and forth, though. IIRC, there have been times when Terry or Armin has done more than one in a row. So hopefully Terry does both Past Tense episodes, as Quark is barely in 'em.

I track this so closely it's ridiculous. They've broken the episodes down into packs of four that coincide with the calendar months, and within each month they just do their best to match the episodes to the best co-host without regard for keeping them alternating. I enjoy speculating who's going to get which episode. Sometimes it's obvious, but other times not at all.

I'm also curious about what order they record these in, because talking to Nana for the "Second Skin" pod they were referencing parts of the discussion they'd already recorded for "Meridian", and there's been other times where I had the sense that I wasn't hearing these in the same order they were recorded.

 

[Crewman6]

I predict Robbie is going to hate "Defiant." Having just rewatched it, I thought the end of it had all his triggers - plotting that gets messy, threads left unresolved, characters emotionally detached from the circumstances (all those Maquis terrorists who just abandon their suicide mission in favor of turning themselves in to prison), doesn't feature the whole cast.

You could be right, but Armin is much more of a nitpicker when it comes to plot issues (and he's even occasionally correct about them, but often not!) I look forward to the episode.

Frankly, guest-star centric episodes tend have sloppy plotting, "Unification 2" arguably being the worst example.

I also love their attitude about being light in an episode. I think it was in the pod for "A Man Alone" or "Past Prologue" that one of the questions for Terry was about Dax being barely present, and what Dax scenes did she think should have been added? And her response was none, "I didn't miss me."

Armin also got some questions early about: is he annoyed to have to do all this makeup for a one or two line scene? Or is he bothered when Quark gets little cameos and is not more heavily featured? And he seemed to find it absurd. He was thrilled to have a job, and had plenty of things to fill time with on the off days.

He also jokes about getting the residuals only when he appears, so he's happy for the paycheck(s.)

Armin has been on at least one pod for an episode he didn't appear in at all ("Paradise"). I thought it didn't hamper him in the least. He had a great analysis of all the ways that episode fails.

Yeah, one of the rare times I agreed with his analysis.

I'm also curious about what order they record these in, because talking to Nana for the "Second Skin" pod they were referencing parts of the discussion they'd already recorded for "Meridian", and there's been other times where I had the sense that I wasn't hearing these in the same order they were recorded.

I don't remember that at all about Second Skin. Weird. Maybe Nana's schedule necessitated moving things around...?

I hope they get Andy Robinson back for both episodes of the Improbable Cause two-parter which is on the horizon. I'm hoping they expand the roster of guest stars.

 

[Crewman6]

They didn't like Civil Defense? That's in the top 25% of DS9 episodes on IMDb! More importantly it's in my top 10.

Are they sure they didn't watch Fascination instead by mistake?

It's not a very good episode. Falls squarely into the "watchable once, but never again" category like a lot of TNG did. But, hey, the patreon patrons seemed to like it well enough.

 

[Tuskin38]

I haven't been listening to every episode like I did with Voyager, but have been waiting for episodes I really enjoy, or ones that I'm just curious to hear their opinion of.

 

[Sakonna]

Well, this Memory Alpha section on "Fascination" makes it clear that it's a real missed opportunity they didn't use one of their double-up slots on this episode:

• This is Armin Shimerman's least favorite episode of all DS9 episodes. Shimerman, who teaches Shakespeare, has said of the show "I thought it was embarrassing". Alexander Siddig was also unimpressed with the episode, saying it is "memorable for not quite pulling off what it attempted to do". (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion, p. ?)
• Terry Farrell greatly enjoyed the episode. Farrell commented: "What's really wonderful about 'Fascination' is that we all get the love bug so all of us are being the opposite of what you'd expect. I fall in love with Avery, and Nana and Sid fall in love with each other. Quark falls for Keiko. Keiko and O'Brien are in love again. Majel is all over Odo. It's really sweet and it's very wondeful and Avery did a wonderful job of directing it". ("Value Added Dax", Star Trek: The Official Fan Club of the UK Magazine issue 9)
• Farrell also commented: "["Fascination"] was such fun. It was more comedic for me than just about any other show we had ever done. So, that was great. I felt really comfortable doing the comedy, and I loved the way Avery directed the show". (The Official Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Magazine issue 14, p. 7)

Though I'm a fan of all the hosts, I was disappointed when they announced at the end of last week that Armin would be doing "Fascination." As vague as their memories are on most of this, Terry's referenced "Fascination" by name more than once during the course of the pod, so it was clearly memorable for her. I was looking forward to hearing her expand on this one.