The Delta Flyers now covering DS9

[VDCNI]

The O'Brien/Munoz relationship absolutely does land with anyone with a brain.

As usual Sakonna ignores the completely ignorant comments they make. Half the time they get confused by basic dialogue. Here they spent 10 minutes not understanding a character using a nickname and assuming the audience is as stupid as they clearly are.

These are people that think the Quickening would be improved by a comedy Quark b story and that opening a hatch is equivalent to understanding a warp core.

One thing that's really obvious about their perspective is how little they understand about TV then or now.

 

[ananta]

The O’Brien/Muniz relationship definitely hits. We’ve seen Muniz twice before and the last time he was actually helping O’Brien get through the intense trauma of ‘Hard Time’ (another episode I remember them unfairly maligning). Plus he’s charismatic as heck. Even though I knew it was coming it was a punch in the gut when he finally died. The way it subverted the usual “seemingly valueless redshirt death” was really powerful.

I didn’t watch much but of this but thought I saw someone said that one of the hosts suggested the b-story should have been on the station dealing with Quark and Bashir’s flea spider shipment? What an idiotic idea. How would that have not totally wrecked the gravity and power of the serious b-plot? Again, if that suggestion was true, I can’t take what any of these “industry insiders” think seriously.

 

[VDCNI]

Yes they always want a weird pointless b story rather than using the limited time to delve deeper into the core story.

Good thing they are such experts in the industry.

 

[TheSeeker]

The O'Brien/Munoz relationship absolutely does land with anyone with a brain.

You're entitled to your opinion, but giving it this way is completely unnecessary. You can disagree with another member without resorting to insults, and this comment comes very close to being warnable. If I see something like this again action will be taken.

Let's keep the discussion civil.

 

[Takeru]

While I disagree with them and don't think the episode is bad (although it's far from my favorites) the writers and producers and even the episode's director didn't like it that much either and thought most of it didn't lad as they intended and that includes the O'Brien/Munoz relationship.
So I don't blame them for their feelings about the episode, if they didn't like it, they didn't like it, that's okay but it doesn't make it fun to listen to especially with their tendency to be overly nitpicky and being unable to move on for 5 minutes once they found each other little detail that annoys them.

I listened to the Melrose Place rewatch podcast a few months ago before they went on hiatus (due to Daphne Zuniga filming Spaceballs 2) and the difference is like night and day. They actually remember things about the show, they talk about guest stars, appreciate things that were good, laugh at things that were bad (like Amy Locane's character in the pilot telling Ian Ziering she "doesn't date teenagers" despite him being ten years older than her and looking his age and how absurd that scene felt), they have guests (cast, producers etc.) and they all tell interesting stories both personal and professional.
I learned about "double ups" for example when a few times a year they would film 8 episodes in 4 weeks to make the long seasons the network wanted possible, the producer in charge of that was on and talked about the logistics, how he counted locations, cast members and storylines to figure out if filming two episodes at once was even possible and then how many episode they could realistically do. The cast talked about how those weeks were exhausting because they would race from location to location and sometimes having no idea which episode they were currently in but how they also loved it because it meant twice the money (because actors get paid by episode).
They talked about Heather Locklear being the sweetest person who had the diet of a 15 year old boy, when Heather Locklear was on she remembered really loving some weird smelly tuna slob on set which feels like an irrelevant detail but it adds so much to the podcast.
They talked about how production dug a hole into the studio floor to build the swimming pool and how in the first season they didn't have a "sky" in the courtyard set so the camera angles were always pretty flat as they avoided filming above the apartments despite supposedly being outside.
Laura Leighton talked about how after she she and Doug Savant started dating he was in the hospital for something and one of the nurses was really nice to him but gave her weird looks and they later figured out it was because she watched the show and didn't trust "Sidney".

This was a really fun podcast to listen to and the Delta Flyers isn't anymore. I enjoyed them doing Voyager but DS9 doesn't work for me.

 

[Tosk]

and the Delta Flyers isn't anymore.

Yeah I feel like I went from "Not bad, this really has some room to grown. It will be good as they get better at it" to "I'm so sick of these people." and I missed that tiny sliver in between where it was as good as it was gonna get.

 

[ananta]

I was so excited when the DF started DS9. But I agree, when you compare to some other podcasts there’s little love or insight there. I love Terry but she barely seems to remember anything about the show and Armin’s occasional insights are buried amid the anal retentive nitpicking. And I’m sorry, but I’m pretty sure Robbie and Garrett are just really there for the pocket money.

Although usually very positive, the Patreon comments utterly roasted them this week for the relentless negativity. Somebody echoed what I said previously and predicted that when they get to “in the Pale Moonlight” they’ll probably hate it. Strangely, Robbie and Terry actually rated it 7 something, but the way it was discussed you’d think it was the most heinous piece of television ever filmed. Lots of complaints, and people saying they were refusing to watch or listen to the rest, or to any of it, because it was just such a downer, and people talking about ending their sub. I wonder if they will take that feedback on board and address it? Personally, I think it something has become a chore and they’re not really into it, they should move onto something else.

 

[Crewman6]

Well, credit where credit is due, I actually enjoyed the last episode. It's nice (and sadly too rare) when both Terry and Armin are present and it creates a fun dynamic. I also think it gives Armin less oxygen for his deranged rants, but that's neither here nor there.

I was never a huge fan of "Looking for Parmarch." It's...fine as an episode, but I was always lukewarm on Worf-Dax. Beyond that, the episode is way too devoted to an utterly slight story about Quark simply wanting to get laid. We know he and Grilka aren't really going to last as a couple and neither of them even seem to want that, anyway. It's really much ado about a simple hookup. Seriously, at the end of the day, who cares?

So I don't share the Flyers' praise for the A-story. But neither do I share their united disdain for the B story. It's...fine, but not as awful as they suggest. Neither is it as compelling and "real" as writer Ron Moore seems to think it is. Gee, Ron, when you talk about how "real" the subplot is, it only makes me wonder who it is you cheated on your wife with (or, at least, almost cheated.)

Whatever.

As a podcast episode, it was fun. But I'm really looking forward to Cirroc appearing next week, even though I think "Nor the Battle to the Strong" is a bit of a whiff. But Jake gets so very little love across the series, it's really a damn shame.

 

[Tosk]

So I periodically try again. I want to listen, I try my best to ignore the annoyances. I made it over half-way into "Looking For..." before tapping out again.

I can only take so much of the over-congratulatory talk. Not just the "you were amazing in this" stuff, but when one of them offers up some weak "they should have done this" and one of the others acts like it's excellent. ...Armin telling Terry she should have been in the writers room for the most basic, unnecessary notions. Armin is baffled as to why Worf helps Quark, despite it being obvious that Worf is trying to prove he can woo the Lady Grilka after being told he can't. Heck, it's not even subtext, Dax even says as much right to his face.

Feh to the Delta Flyers!

Edit: Oh, and Garrett talking about Bashir acting like an eighth grader? Of all people.

 

[VDCNI]

I also gave that one up early.

Nor the Battle is decent though helped a lot by Cirroc Lofton and I'll be listening to the Assignment for sure because Rosalind Chao is on.

 

[Crewman6]

I also gave that one up early.

Nor the Battle is decent though helped a lot by Cirroc Lofton and I'll be listening to the Assignment for sure because Rosalind Chao is on.

Really nice to have Cirroc on and the episode reinforces how sadly underutilized Jake was throughout the series.

And speaking of underutilized, next episode is arguably Rosalind Chao's biggest so I'm looking forward to hearing from her. I know "botanist" isn't the most exciting job description, but man I wish they had done more with her, too.

 

[ananta]

I’m so burned watching this and feeling they were trashing one of Trek’s best seasons (s4), I don’t think I can ever go back to supporting this podcast, alas.

 

[Tuskin38]

Well I learned something new from the 'Trial and Tribble-ations' episode, that the appearance of the waitress we see in the episode played by Leslie Ackerman was based off a waitress we see in the original episode.

Of the dozens of times I've watched both episodes, I never even noticed.

Oh no, next is "Let He Who is Without Sin..."

 

[Tosk]

Well I learned something new from the 'Trial and Tribble-ations' episode, that the appearance of the waitress we see in the episode played by Leslie Ackerman was based off a waitress we see in the original episode.

Even down to the butterfly wings on the back.

Odo and Worf's outfits were based on what Cyrano Jones wears, but I'm betting you did notice that.

 

[Tuskin38]

Hm there’s a weird cut in the editing of the middle of the tribble episode.

Robbie is talking about the scene where Uhura is introduced to the tribbles for the first time, but then it abruptly cuts to Garret talking about the scene with Bashir and Miles working on the engineering panel.

Listening to it on Spotify

 

[VDCNI]

That does ring a bell, they do have the odd edit sometimes.

Enjoyed the last two episodes as the pedantic stuff mainly stopped. I enjoyed Armin telling Garret off for being pedantic in The Assignment, he sounded suitably dumbfounded that Armin of all people was criticising him for it.

Jonathan West was interesting on Tribbles and Armin managed to mostly resist complaining until the very end. There are lots of plot moments you could criticise but they mostly stay in the spirit of the episode and leave them be. I thought Armin was wrong about Avery though, I think he pitches his performance exactly right here. Sightly lighter than normal works here.

 

[Crewman6]

That does ring a bell, they do have the odd edit sometimes.

Enjoyed the last two episodes as the pedantic stuff mainly stopped. I enjoyed Armin telling Garret off for being pedantic in The Assignment, he sounded suitably dumbfounded that Armin of all people was criticising him for it.

Jonathan West was interesting on Tribbles and Armin managed to mostly resist complaining until the very end. There are lots of plot moments you could criticise but they mostly stay in the spirit of the episode and leave them be. I thought Armin was wrong about Avery though, I think he pitches his performance exactly right here. Sightly lighter than normal works here.

I agree. I thought the Tribbles episode was delightful until Armin crapped on it with his low rating. And most of his complaints were about "acting" - specifically Avery.

Which is insane. Like Sisko can't be amused/delighted by being on the old Enterprise? Really? It was "not Sisko" to see him in a lighter mood? utterly ridiculous.

Sisko has his light moments, it's just most of the time, he's dealing with a lot of crappy stuff.

Sheesh, Armin. Way to ruin literally everything.

But the rest of the episode was great, everyone else dug it and it was cool to hear from Jonathan West and get some behind the scenes tidbits on the legendary episode.

 

[VDCNI]

I agree. I thought the Tribbles episode was delightful until Armin crapped on it with his low rating. And most of his complaints were "acting" - specifically Avery.

Which is insane. Like Sisko can't be amused/delighted by being on the old Enterprise? really? It was "not Sisko" to see him in a lighter mood? utterly ridiculous.

Sisko has his light moments, it's just most of the time, he's dealing with a lot of crappy stuff.

Sheesh, Armin. Way to ruin literally everything.

But the rest of the episode was great, everyone else dug it and it was cool to hear from Jonathan West and get some behind the scenes tidbits on the legendary episode.

I cancelled my membership after The Ship so had no idea about the rating. Very odd to rate it low and apart from that one comment about Avery and being pedantic about the last Tribble scene he seemed to be enjoying it. Glad I missed the rating then.

Avery being harsh stern Sisko all the way through wouldn't make any sense. Even with high stakes this episode just doesn't have that tone and, as you say, Sisko is a lighter character in plenty of situations.

 

[VDCNI]

Well the latest episode isn't the most fun but that's not really their fault. With Let He Who Is Without Sin what can you do other than moan and point out its, many many, faults.

Even most of the pedantry is on point for this one. Apart from Armin once again misunderstanding the Prime Directive.

 

[Crewman6]

Well the latest episode isn't the most fun but that's not really their fault. With Let He Who Is Without Sin what can you do other than moan and point out its, many many, faults.

Even most of the pedantry is on point for this one. Apart from Armin once again misunderstanding the Prime Directive.

I skipped that one as the actual episode is so bad, I didn't think there would be any point in listening to the recap.