I had the same thought!!!!Wang's attempt at Sisko-voice in the Maquis pt 1 ep sounds more like Sulu.
The Delta Flyers now covering DS9
- Thread starter Tinker Garak Soldier Spy
- Start date
RDM occasionally isn't shy about when an ep doesn't work for him. Granted, it's sometimes for a stupid reason that he gets "bumped", but we all have that problem.
My current smaller-than-a-gripe is that Garrett maybe does too much research now. A prop got re-used, or an alien make-up, or this is the first appearance out of three for this character. It's funny to me that occasionally when he reads these things out I get the sense that the others are all "Oh. Okay...?"
Similar to the synopsis problem listed above, I'd rather they focus more on their own thoughts and feelings. Stuff read off of Memory Alpha I can just read on Memory Alpha myself.
Anyway, I'm sure that the Patrons shower praise on every aspect of the show and I'm just a freeloader with a chip on their shoulder...but this is the one place I can air my pathetic grievances, damn it!
Armin teaches acting and Robbie is a great director, but why are they stuck on plot and minutiae? HF, if I wanted nitpicking, I'd go to the internet for places like TrekBBs.
Well, I think the Maquis episodes truly demonstrate how sad it is that there isn't more in-depth discussion of the show.
That said, they did talk a bit about the "issues" and "themes" raised in the show. At least Terry did. Even if she didn't quite understand the entire Cardassian/Federation treaty and the backstory for how/why the Maquis were formed and just kept saying, "they just need to work it out!"
But it's amazing no one commented on the fact that Berman, Piller and Taylor were all credited with "story" on the two episodes....because the episodes were explicitly designed to set up Voyager and therefore Voyager's creators developed the story.
They didn't talk much at all about how these episodes laid the groundwork for their own series or any of the connections between them. For instance, what I thought was a deliberate Voyager pre-easter egg, the presence of both an Indigenous man and a half-human, half-klingon woman as background members of the Maquis.
Once, again, it's a little disheartening that too much chatter is just silly jokes that absolutely don't get funnier with repetition and too little time is devoted to actually discussing the episodes themselves.
That said, they did talk a bit about the "issues" and "themes" raised in the show. At least Terry did. Even if she didn't quite understand the entire Cardassian/Federation treaty and the backstory for how/why the Maquis were formed and just kept saying, "they just need to work it out!"
But it's amazing no one commented on the fact that Berman, Piller and Taylor were all credited with "story" on the two episodes....because the episodes were explicitly designed to set up Voyager and therefore Voyager's creators developed the story.
They didn't talk much at all about how these episodes laid the groundwork for their own series or any of the connections between them. For instance, what I thought was a deliberate Voyager pre-easter egg, the presence of both an Indigenous man and a half-human, half-klingon woman as background members of the Maquis.
Once, again, it's a little disheartening that too much chatter is just silly jokes that absolutely don't get funnier with repetition and too little time is devoted to actually discussing the episodes themselves.
yeah, but mostly his "bumps" are for small potatoes kinds of things. I only listened to two episodes of Voyager, but one was "Flashback" (which I listened to as it was the only Voyager episode I ever saw more than once.). And RDM straight up says he didn't like the episode when it was all over, but I can't remember a time anyone came down that hard on any of the DS9 episodes. Except maybe Armin during the Homecoming trilogy, but Garrett/Robbie never do.RDM occasionally isn't shy about when an ep doesn't work for him. Granted, it's sometimes for a stupid reason that he gets "bumped", but we all have that problem.
Ha. True. He's very fond of just reading stuff that's clearly from Memory Alpha now. I think some of the trivia is interesting, but a lot if it useless - "Hey, this very same chair was also used in the TNG episode, "Ode to Troi." Who cares? Garrett pick and choose your trivia better, please.
Air away!
Ah, now I think I get it! You guys are all listening to the free version of the pod, right? I'm a Patron at the $3/month level and everything everyone feels is missing is there. I haven't listening to the free version since back in season 1 of Voyager, but at the time it very much felt like an intentionally (and transparently) incomplete product, more of a long add to drive sales rather than a complete piece in and of itself.
With the $3/month version, I never walk away unclear what they thought about an episode, I'm frequently surprised how candid and blunt they are with their negative opinions, they discussed the connections of "The Maquis" to Voyager at length, they highlighted the Indigenous extras and discussed the connections to Chakotay and how his character might have been different with a stronger tie to these backstory events, Robbie talked about wishing he'd known about these episodes at the time to watch them and help ground his performance as Paris, Robbie and Garrett had a disagreement about whether Voyager had satisfyingly utilized the Maquis or not, etc etc (Though they didn't call out the connection between the writing credits and the Voyager show creators, which I also expected, but I figure they're not always going to make the connections that the fans would)
I actually kind of forgot I was a Patreon subscriber, in that I just have the feed set up in my podcast app and I'm not really paying attention to where the free content ends and the subscriber content begins.
But I read this thread and think "it's like they're listening to a completely different pod?", and it finally hit me that actually is what is happening.
With the $3/month version, I never walk away unclear what they thought about an episode, I'm frequently surprised how candid and blunt they are with their negative opinions, they discussed the connections of "The Maquis" to Voyager at length, they highlighted the Indigenous extras and discussed the connections to Chakotay and how his character might have been different with a stronger tie to these backstory events, Robbie talked about wishing he'd known about these episodes at the time to watch them and help ground his performance as Paris, Robbie and Garrett had a disagreement about whether Voyager had satisfyingly utilized the Maquis or not, etc etc (Though they didn't call out the connection between the writing credits and the Voyager show creators, which I also expected, but I figure they're not always going to make the connections that the fans would)
I actually kind of forgot I was a Patreon subscriber, in that I just have the feed set up in my podcast app and I'm not really paying attention to where the free content ends and the subscriber content begins.
But I read this thread and think "it's like they're listening to a completely different pod?", and it finally hit me that actually is what is happening.
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There are plenty of talent-produced podcasts that are good even at the free level. I never feel this way about 7th Rule or Shuttlepod Show/D-Con chamber, both of which have extended content for subscribers. If what you describe is true, I wonder why they are so contemptuous of non-paying listeners. Just take the show behind the paywall.Ah, now I think I get it! You guys are all listening to the free version of the pod, right? I'm a Patron at the $3/month level and everything everyone feels is missing is there. I haven't listening to the free version since back in season 1 of Voyager, but at the time it very much felt like an intentionally (and transparently) incomplete product, more of a long add to drive sales rather than a complete piece in and of itself.
With the $3/month version, I never walk away unclear what they thought about an episode, I'm frequently surprised how candid and blunt they are with their negative opinions, they discussed the connections of "The Maquis" to Voyager at length, they highlighted the Indigenous extras and discussed the connections to Chakotay and how his character might have been different with a stronger tie to these backstory events, Robbie talked about wishing he'd known about these episodes at the time to watch them and help ground his performance as Paris, Robbie and Garrett had a disagreement about whether Voyager had satisfyingly utilized the Maquis or not, etc etc (Though they didn't call out the connection between the writing credits and the Voyager show creators, which I also expected, but I figure they're not always going to make the connections that the fans would)
I actually kind of forgot I was a Patreon subscriber, in that I just have the feed set up in my podcast app and I'm not really paying attention to where the free content ends and the subscriber content begins.
But I read this thread and think "it's like they're listening to a completely different pod?", and it finally hit me that actually is what is happening.
Ha! Fair point. I was also thinking that those who find it too long will certainly not find relief in the extended version.Does the Patreon version edit out all the things that annoy me about the show?
I find it extremely unfair to characterize this as "contemptuous" of the non-paying listeners. It's not contemptuous to have a business that offers a better product to paying customers than it does to freebie seekers. Also, this is hardly extortionate pricing. $3 a month. There's not much of anything you can get for cheaper than that.
I've actually wondered a few times if the economic model is precisely what enables it to be a superior podcast, for me anyway. The DF hosts have always struck me as feeling notably more candid and honest with their opinions than the other Trek actor pods. I've wondered if that freedom comes from building it on subscriptions. I think you can be more honest selling your content on a subscription model, or at least that's what the Substack writers I know tell me.
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I never wrote that non-paying listeners were owed something, did I? You're a mod, be honest!
I didn't mean more than I said, which was only that characterizing them as contemptuous was unfair. It's just a business strategy. You give out some portion of the product for free, to entice enough sampling that a sufficient number of paying customers sign up to make the endeavor profitable enough to engage in at all.
I mean, this is how I make my money. I sell online, and some portion of my product is available free before you buy. I'm not contemptuous of the people who only consume the free preview and no more. I just can't give them the whole thing for free while continuing to produce and also pay for everything.
Also, not a mod, but kind of fun to be mistaken for one.
And this is where you mischaractarized what I wrote. Literally, I said to just put it behind a paywall: just make it paid content. Certainly, they can offer a free version. However, there's lots of great, insightful content that is free, whether by amateurs, pros, or amateurs with pros as guests. Indeed, the Gamma Quadrant podcast, which ended a decade ago, is far superior to what the Delta Flyers do, and they were just a bunch of high schools friends from New Jersey. Not being willing to provide any quality should be described as wasting people's time.
Okay, that's good to know! I'll have to subscribe and re-listen to a few of the episodes.Ah, now I think I get it! You guys are all listening to the free version of the pod, right? I'm a Patron at the $3/month level and everything everyone feels is missing is there. I haven't listening to the free version since back in season 1 of Voyager, but at the time it very much felt like an intentionally (and transparently) incomplete product, more of a long add to drive sales rather than a complete piece in and of itself.
With the $3/month version, I never walk away unclear what they thought about an episode, I'm frequently surprised how candid and blunt they are with their negative opinions, they discussed the connections of "The Maquis" to Voyager at length, they highlighted the Indigenous extras and discussed the connections to Chakotay and how his character might have been different with a stronger tie to these backstory events, Robbie talked about wishing he'd known about these episodes at the time to watch them and help ground his performance as Paris, Robbie and Garrett had a disagreement about whether Voyager had satisfyingly utilized the Maquis or not, etc etc (Though they didn't call out the connection between the writing credits and the Voyager show creators, which I also expected, but I figure they're not always going to make the connections that the fans would)
I actually kind of forgot I was a Patreon subscriber, in that I just have the feed set up in my podcast app and I'm not really paying attention to where the free content ends and the subscriber content begins.
But I read this thread and think "it's like they're listening to a completely different pod?", and it finally hit me that actually is what is happening.
It was never clear what was actually in the longer versions, so thanks for the clarification.
Boy you weren't wrong. This ep feels even more nitpicky than usual. It wouldn't bother me except he seems resistant to people giving reasons or excuses for things.
On and on about how Kira shouldn't be able to overhear something when she's only two feet away!
"She doesn't have Ferengi hearing!!"
But never once considers that maybe Bajorans have better hearing than Humans.
Yeah, his nitpicks were beyond moronic this time and he talked way too much.Boy you weren't wrong. This ep feels even more nitpicky than usual. It wouldn't bother me except he seems resistant to people giving reasons or excuses for things.
On and on about how Kira shouldn't be able to overhear something when she's only two feet away!
"She doesn't have Ferengi hearing!!"
But never once considers that maybe Bajorans have better hearing than Humans.
That was one of them. But at least Andy addressed this by saying, "Well, if she was there, she'd be focused on keeping her eyes on Garak." Which is a great answer.
Other trademark Armin stupidity:
"Bashir can't pull rank on Odo. Starfleet are the guests of the Bajorans." So what? Starfleet is in command of the station. Yes, at the request of the Bajorans. But that means they're calling the shots unless the Bajorans tell them to leave. That doesn't mean every Bajoran officer has veto power over Starfleet. Kira can't ignore an order that comes from Sisko just because he's "a guest." Bajor could kick Starfleet out, sure. But since they invited them to run the station, they're in charge. Not a perfect analogy, but if a German soldier is on an US Army base in Germany, they still have to follow orders from their American commanders.
"How could Quark call the infirmary? He doesn't have a comm badge!" Dude, are you serious? To quote my username namesake, "Did you even watch the show?" Every single place on the station has communications in it. On board the station (or a starship, for that matter), comm badges are basically redundant, they aren't essential pieces of tech that would render the universe silent and lonely in their absence.
"How did Bashir just beam into Tain's house like that?" Dude, Tain knew he was coming. He literally says he arranged for Bashir to encounter no resistance while entering Cardassian space. He let Bashir in, he was expecting him.
"I can't believe Bashir just left the station, leaving all those people without a doctor!" You don't think that very minor accommodations are made in every single TV show ever to ensure that, you know, the main characters actually present throughout the story? Is Bashir never allowed to leave, under any circumstances? Is every doctor chained to their office 24/7 in real life in case medical emergencies arise? Is there literally not a single person on DS9 besides Bashir with medical training? This is the kind of boneheaded comment that makes me wonder if Armin has ever even seen a TV show, let alone acted in one.
"Why didn't we see a scene where Bashir asked Sisko for permission to use a runabout?" Uh, because that scene would be totally pointless and boring? "Commander, can I use a runabout to help save Garak's life?" "Uh, sure. Just put some gas in it on the way home." End scene. Why the fuck would that scene be in the episode unless there was a story or character reason for it? Totally useless suggestion.
That said, it was amazing having Andrew Robinson on the show and I hope he comes back for more Garak-centric episodes, hopefully the "Improbable Cause"/"Die Is Cast" two-parter when they get around to that one next season.
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Thanks for the advice. I went and forked over the $3 and, man, the difference is literally night and day.Ah, now I think I get it! You guys are all listening to the free version of the pod, right? I'm a Patron at the $3/month level and everything everyone feels is missing is there. I haven't listening to the free version since back in season 1 of Voyager, but at the time it very much felt like an intentionally (and transparently) incomplete product, more of a long add to drive sales rather than a complete piece in and of itself.
With the $3/month version, I never walk away unclear what they thought about an episode, I'm frequently surprised how candid and blunt they are with their negative opinions, they discussed the connections of "The Maquis" to Voyager at length, they highlighted the Indigenous extras and discussed the connections to Chakotay and how his character might have been different with a stronger tie to these backstory events, Robbie talked about wishing he'd known about these episodes at the time to watch them and help ground his performance as Paris, Robbie and Garrett had a disagreement about whether Voyager had satisfyingly utilized the Maquis or not, etc etc (Though they didn't call out the connection between the writing credits and the Voyager show creators, which I also expected, but I figure they're not always going to make the connections that the fans would)
I actually kind of forgot I was a Patreon subscriber, in that I just have the feed set up in my podcast app and I'm not really paying attention to where the free content ends and the subscriber content begins.
But I read this thread and think "it's like they're listening to a completely different pod?", and it finally hit me that actually is what is happening.
The free version of the podcast is basically useless. Just the hosts (usually Robbie) walking us through the plot of the episode with only glancing commentary here and there. I've enjoyed it, but as I've routinely complained about, it's basically empty calories that tells you very little.
The "bonus" material is really the entire point of the podcast. I have gone back to a few episodes now and will make my through listening to this "additional" content, as it is really the reason the podcast exists at all.
SO much better than just listening to the free version. Which is, as discussed, chock full of Armin's idiotic nitpicks, which the bonus material seems (at least so far, I've only listened to 4 or 5) largely devoid of. Thankfully.
In fact, I may actually just listen to the bonus content exclusively, as I can't see a reason to bother with the long, winding recaps any longer.
I really do enjoy the more in-depth conversations. And, as much as I bag on Armin, I'll at least give him credit for properly citing "Necessary Evil" as one of the show's finest hours and giving it a score of "9 out of 10", while rightly complaining that the listener poll rated it far too low.
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I couldn't help but hope that RDM and Wang both put off listening to A Stitch in Time until afterwards. Robinson is potentially harming future eps by trying to get them to read/listen to it now. (Although it's obvious that they already know a bunch of stuff, especially Wang.)
That's a good point. I can't imagine they'll actually get around to it soon.
Wang's additional knowledge about Ds9 seems to come mostly from reading Memory Alpha. Both of them are truly in the dark as to the content of the show, which makes their reviews of it refreshingly, well, fresh.
It's amusing that two guys who appeared in 170+ episodes of Star Trek are so unaware of the franchise's specifics beyond what happens in their own show. But, of course, you don't have to be a fan of something to be an actor in it.
That said, I find it hilarious that the producers of Voyager never bothered to actually give them the backstory on their own series by giving them tapes of, at the very least, the Maquis episodes of DS9 and maybe even "Journey's End." Just to give them a little bit of a foundation of what they hell they were doing. Very strange oversight.
They're very aware of big stuff like Worf coming aboard, his marriage to Jadzia, Jadzia giving way to Ezri, etc. And Wang reading Memory Alpha is why I say he especially knows stuff, because the pages he's reading contain information regarding later episodes. He may not absorb it all, but he reads it.
