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Spoilers The Controversial Star Wars Opinion Thread

Reverend said:
Plus as an added bonus it flies in the face of how Lucas thought the metaphysics of the Force worked.
Seems dubious in light of Lucas allegedly giving out copies of Dark Empire as stocking stuffers.
Reverend said:
Hell, he pulled a partially completed scene from Mortis arc (custom assets and all) because he decided he didn't like the metaphysical implications of Sith Lords existing as force ghosts.
It's... almost as if essence transfer isn't Force ghosting.
Reverend said:
After all, immortality in whatever form is a dragon every Sith Lord will chase, so I'm sure they've attempted every-which-way of continuing to exist on the physical plain . . . mostly because to the Sith, the physical plain is the only plain they can exist.
They can exist on any plain, or even in mountainous areas.
Xerxes82 said:
That said, my controversial SW opinion is this: The only real way the Rule of 2 make sense to me is if it's the crux of ritualized essence transfer. Bodysnatching. The Dark Lord of the Sith has had many different names and faces, but is essentially always the same guy. Like the Sith version of the Doctor from Doctor Who.

And that this is the one thing that Rise of Skywalker actually gets right and finally codifies, even if not explicitly.
I usually lean more in the direction of the scheme outlined by pre-Disney EU: essence transfer is a combat. Sometimes the master wins, sometimes (in theory) the apprentice wins. Under that continuity, for example, Zannah was not in fact Bane yet contained some vestige of Bane.
 
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And yet, it worked.
It took over 1000 years, depended on ALOT of Random Luck for everything to work out.

And in the end, the current lineage of "The Sith" that started with Darth Bane still crumbled because they didn't calculate on a member of the "Rule of 2" turning back to the Light.

So did it really work sustainably in the "Real Long Term"?

Cause alot of the deep Sith Knowledge was lost when both Vader & Palpatine were defeated.

And in Palpatines case, defeated Twice.

So any New "Sith/Jedi" has to start over from nearly scratch.

While Rey has a "Head Start" in terms of Force Ability & Knowledge.

Countless Millenia of Sith Knowledge, lost to the sands of time.

Old Sith from WAY back in the Darth Bane era and earlier Darth Revan eras were FAR more powerful & knowledge-able about The DarkSide of the Force.

But their knowledge is lost to history now.

So in the end, their main goal of getting stronger in the "DarkSide of the Force" is lost, their knowledge lost or hidden amongst random Holocrons if they even recorded it.

All things that either needs to be relearned, rediscovered, and their numbers rebuilt over time.

Was that a good "1000 Years" spent? IYO?

I think it was a fools errand if they ended up losing focus on their main objective.
 
I don’t know if the SWTOR writers borrowed this from existing EU lore, but the sith in that game have their own version of ‘May the Force be with you’, they say ‘May the Force serve you’

Which really does show their differences in philosophy. The Jedi seek harmony with the force, the sith bend it to their will
 
I don’t know if the SWTOR writers borrowed this from existing EU lore, but the sith in that game have their own version of ‘May the Force be with you’, they say ‘May the Force serve you’

Which really does show their differences in philosophy. The Jedi seek harmony with the force, the sith bend it to their will
My personal favorite description of the Sith view of the Force comes from the Revenge of the Sith Novel. Dooku is preparing himself for combat with Obi-Wan and Anakin Kenobi aboard the Separatist Captial ship above Coruscant and he focuses all his energy so that he becomes "the center of the galaxy," which he describes as the biggest difference between the Jedi and the Sith. All of the power is focused on their needs in the moment.
 
I usually lean more in the direction of the scheme outlined by pre-Disney EU: essence transfer is a combat. Sometimes the master wins, sometimes (in theory) the apprentice wins. Under that continuity, for example, Zannah was not in fact Bane yet contained some vestige of Bane.



You know what would've been smarter for "Darth Bane" & the rest of the Sith Factions, instead of the goofy "Rule of 2" that he created?

He should've taken Githany & Zannah as his two wives, had as many Force Sensitive Children as possible with each.

Each Dark Side Force Member can have "UpTo 2x Active Spouses" by "New Sith Rule of 2 Cultural Law" and try to procreate as many strong Force Children as possible.

Promote Regulated Dark Side Force Polygamy under a Fair Rule Set that is sustainable & manage-able.

So every Dark Side Male can have 2x Wives of their choosing.
Every Dark Side Female can have 2x Husbands of their choosing.
Each one produce offspring with both sides to maximize child generation for the "Next Generation"

Have every member of the Brotherhood of Darkness find another "Dark Side" partner and mass produce Force Sensitive Children who would eventually be genetically stronger in "The Force".

Instead of BackStabbing each other, create a powerful lineage of Force Sensitive Families who train in "The Dark Side Arts" & pass down the knowledge from generation to generation.

They must raise their off-spring to instill Love, Loyalty, & Devotion to the families & the various DarkSide Familia.

Then train them properly & raise them to be stronger and pass down the knowledge of the DarkSide Arts along with continuing R&D into it.

Then create multiple Dynasties of "Dark Side" Families / Clans.

Eventually the future children will be known as "Dark Prince & Princesses" will have choices to marry other strong "Dark Prince & Princess" from other lineage and create ever more stronger children with each generation.
Every new generation of Children should be filled with Sith Aligned members to maximize loyalty to the cause.

Everybody should be Researching "The DarkSide Arts" more & more and share their knowledge amongst familiy, friends, & allies of "The Sith".

Then the overall "DarkSide" Families can slowly spread their dominion amongst the countless Planets across the Stars and Claim specific Planets/Stations/Population Centers as their "Personal Domain" to rule & operate. There are ALOT of Stars / Planets / Galaxies within the Universe. There's PLENTY of room to grow.

Kind of like Mob Families IRL who have their "Strictly Defined Territories" that they do business in.

The families Dark Side work in "The Shadows" from the normal public, but they spread en masse by working together and growing their numbers significantly and spreading across the mass populace & planets.

This "Alternate Rule of 2" would gurantee every Sith Member to be afforded 2x Active Spouses each, and mass produce Force Sensitive Children.

Then each generation of "Force Sensitive Children" will have "Mate Potential" choices amongst other powerful DarkSide Force Sensitive Children to create ever more powerful "Force Sensitive Children" for the next generation.

Then their spread would become "Multiplicative" in nature when one person is allowed 2x Spouses at most at any given time.

Of course, divorces are allowed to happen, but this "Alternate Rule of 2" limits to 2x Active Spouses at any given time w/o fear of Jealousy or Betrayal because that would be part of their new "New Sith Cultural Rule of 2 System" to further enhance the overall "Sith Side's Strength" by increasing their numbers of super strong Force Members.

Every member of the new Rule of 2 should be continuing their R&D into the "Dark Arts" & sharing that knowledge amongst Family Members, Friends, & Allies.

And having their Children marry & breed with other Force Sensitive Children would create ever stronger off-spring that bonds the various complicated families together and create complicated but wide strong webs of Sith Family Alliances, part of the greater Sith Dark Side Coalition that operates in the shadows.

Remember, those who adhere to "The Jedi Order" are generally NOT allowed to find love, have attachments, have families, have children.
While "The Sith Dark Side Coalition" will not have those limitations.

The Sith's #1 Goal should be to OutNumber "The Jedi" by having far more members, everywhere, constantly doing R&D on "The Force".

Eventually, their "Sith Dark Side Coalition" will outpace "The Jedi" and offer a more attractive route for "Neutral Force" users.

While "The Jedi" will be locked in a world w/o Familial Love, "The Dark Side" will offer the gurantee of Family & Bonds along with getting powerful.

If "The Jedi" attacks one member of the "Sith Dark Side Coalition", they incur the wrath of every member of their family to fight said specific Jedi member until they're defeated.

And given how large the familes can become, that could get very complicated.

Imagine if Every Sith Family has an average of 20x Children amongst their 2x Spouses, 10x with each Spouse.

Each Spouse gets 10x Children with each partner.

Then every off-spring finds a potential Force Sensitive Sith mate and repeats that process.

The ranks of the "Sith Dark Side Coalition" would grow VERY FAST over time and on average create more faithful adherents to the "Sith Dark Side Coalition".

Think of how fast it would grow over time.

Over 1000 years, imagine if the Average was 10x Children per Pair of Spouses according to the "New Rule of 2".

"20^N-th" degree power.

If the average age between generations is 20-30 years, then that creates a average of 25 years in human terms.
That would be 20^25 = 3.3554432e+32.

That's 10^32 range of Sith Adherents in 1000 years.

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Eventually the entire "Sith Dark Side Coalition" would spread so fast over 1000 years, you'd find a Sith Familia in every single town that you visit.

Secretly, the Jedi wouldn't know which Family they would be dealing with until they encounter them.

Then if they fight one family member, they bring the wrath of all their Sith Family & Friends on them.

That kind of bond that is "Mafia & Klingon House Like" in nature would be so powerful, that it's far more sustainable in the future.
 
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You can cling on to "Old & OutDated" views on how the Force is interpreted by two religious sects whose views on the Force has caused countless suffering.

Lucas created it, provided the means for audiences to understand how it works, which has nothing to do with your atheistic hatred of the reality of the conflicting poles of good / light and dark / evil. No one ever said the Force and its believers / practitioners in the films needed to become the inane "Gray Jedi".


The others who share my views will become a splinter faction on how to "Interpret the Force" and will be doing our thing & spread our interpretation amongst the greater Star Wars fan base who will listen.

It is not working now, nor will it ever work. The world culture's view of Star Wars and its central religious / spiritual conflict is forever defined by the films, specifically the OT. Your deliberate misinterpretation of that is not gaining ground, nor will it alter the view of the films.



But you're trying to treat "Skeleton Crew" or any of the derivative works not surpassing the original as something wrong when it's the nature of the beast.

Again you shoot your own arguments in the foot; if you're admitting deriviative works never surpass the original, then your cries of how successful / popular the D+ SW are alleged to be go leaping out of the window, as you are acknowledging that they will always be of lesser quality and value.

Whoops.


You might as well say that about every SW movie that wasn't the original 1977 film.
Cause that's the only thing you seem to value, everything else is a derivative lesser work than your precious 1977 original movie.

Wrong again, but I will let you continue to rant against things never argued.


If it was irrelevant, than why bother making it?

Answer: A shameless attempt to claw at more $ through unchained fanwankery which was utterly unnecessary in the narrative sense.

Good for you, not everybody is going to interpret the movie in the same way given their personal historical, national, ethnic, religious & cultural context that they grew up with.
They will take away very different things about the same movie.

Translation: the heart of your pages of ranting is from the position of a militant atheist, and you wish to push your belief on a film series rooted in the religious and spiritual.


People's "Ego" derive from their childhood & how they're raised, the environment that they were in, what was expected of said child. Their past traumas greatly affect how they behave as an adult, especially as a young man in love. To blindly say it was ONLY Anakin's fault is willyfully being blind of his upbringing, his environment, the numerous circumstances as to how he got to his situation.

At some point, individuals have to take responsibility for their actions, particularly violent or self-serving actions. His mother did not raise him to be violent or self-serving, and the Jedi certainly did not. He--Anakin--chose the traits and impulses he wanted to embrace and follow, while constantly, consciously rejecting the moral structure of the Jedi teaching him. Anakin was a colossal idiot who smashed his own head into a brick wall, and instead of learning the obvious ("...gee...that hurts!"), he smashed his head into it again and again.

And, all "Anakin" knew about 'The Sith' was what everybody in the Jedi Order taught him; he was inducted into "The Jedi Order" since he was a child and was indoctrinated into their ways, their value systems.

By the time of ROTS, Anakin knew what the Sith were and the evil they committed, whether it was Maul killing Jinn, all of Dooku's acts before and during the war, and the once-shadowy master Sith manipulating it all. He was no child pulled by the nose, confused by smoke and mirrors. He knew what the Sith were and danger and death caused by that cult. No excuses.


Where was the evidence that showed any & all assasination attempts on Padme were linked directly to Palpatine?
When did the Jedi Order figure that part out, much less Anakin?

Suuure. After years of convenient attacks against Padme which were designed to bolster the move to war / increasing Palpatine's powers during the manufactured crisis...and Palpatine finally revealing that he is the Sith Lord (already known to be a supporter of the warring opposition through the actions of his servants Sith Dooku and the Sith-trained Grievous ), Moronakin just scratched his skull, STILL not being able to figure out that Palpatine was--ultimately--behind the attempts on Padme's life.

Even the worst of the Anakin-defenders do not spin his self-serving choice to follow the evil man in order to save the woman said evil man actively tried to kill to your ridiculous degree.


Why would he, Luke was a Rebel, the man literally joined "The Rebel Alliance to Restore the Republic".
He was part of a "Freedom Fighter Resistance Unit" who FOUGHT against "The Empire".

The two men lived under Completely Different Contexts.

You missed the point.
 
Lucas created it, provided the means for audiences to understand how it works, which has nothing to do with your atheistic hatred of the reality of the conflicting poles of good / light and dark / evil.
Again, the fans get to interpret it however they want, it's part of art. When you put it out there, not everybody has to agree with your interpretation or the creators interpretation.

No one ever said the Force and its believers / practitioners in the films needed to become the inane "Gray Jedi".
Not everybody believes that the "Gray Jedi" are inane, the fact that there are people who care about it shows that we have our own following and group who prefer that interpretation.

It is not working now, nor will it ever work. The world culture's view of Star Wars and its central religious / spiritual conflict is forever defined by the films, specifically the OT.
You're not "The World". You are one fan who is dogmatically hard headed about pushing "This is the absolute Truth", spoken by Lucas and no other interpretation is allowed.

Your deliberate misinterpretation of that is not gaining ground, nor will it alter the view of the films.
Yet your hard head-ness won't change other people's PoV. In fact it's going to push them away.

Again you shoot your own arguments in the foot; if you're admitting deriviative works never surpass the original, then your cries of how successful / popular the D+ SW are alleged to be go leaping out of the window, as you are acknowledging that they will always be of lesser quality and value.

Whoops.
No, because success comes in various forms. There's a reason why Disney & other Studios prefer continuing existing IP instead of trying something new.

They want higher chances of success & continuing a franchise, no matter if it's lesser revenue than the original, is a better chance on turning a profit.

There's a reason why there is so much "Spin-off" content. The fact that there is a demand & continual production of Star Wars shows it's success.

You don't have to be a "New Record Setter" to be considered successful to the studios. It's a "Nice to have", but the odds are against you.

That's why they choose consistency over taking risks & starting new IP's.

Your definition & understanding of success is incredibly narrow; similar to a Gamblers Addict of "Go Big, do better than previously, or Go Home".

That's a VERY narrow view of how to success in Hollywood when it comes to franchising & sucess over the "Long Term".

We're getting more Star Wars Spin-Off & Derivative IP.

You can hate on it all you want, but it's coming out regardless of how you feel about the subject matter.

As far as Quality, that is subjective to each individual viewer. The value it brings depends on your interpretation as a individual fan.

Newer Productions have ever continuing higher Quality Production Values than older ones.

There are newer stories to tell that don't tread on the subject matter of old content.

For ones who value more content and not just rehashing the same thing, we are getting what we want.

You want to tell the "Same Old Story", other fans don't want that. That's boring.

Been there, done that.

Wrong again, but I will let you continue to rant against things never argued.
Then where do you draw the line on Star Wars Media being created?
Should they stop according to you?
Because it seems like the only option to make you happy is to either Stop Making new content, or rehash the same old thing.
Cause you seem to hate everything outside of the original trilogy. More Specifically the original Star Wars.

Answer: A shameless attempt to claw at more $ through unchained fanwankery which was utterly unnecessary in the narrative sense.
You don't get to be the one who determines what is "Necessary".
You aren't the arbiter of All Star Wars Fans
You don't get to claim to be a "True Fan" either.
Everybody who likes Star Wars gets to participate in it.

Translation: the heart of your pages of ranting is from the position of a militant atheist, and you wish to push your belief on a film series rooted in the religious and spiritual.
Translation: You're a dogmatic "True Fan" and claims to know what's the "Correct Interpretation" about Star Wars, everybody else is wrong; your interpretation is the "ONLY CORRECT" interpretation IYO.

At some point, individuals have to take responsibility for their actions, particularly violent or self-serving actions.
Their environment also matters, the context, the situation. It's not as simple as you try to make it.

His mother did not raise him to be violent or self-serving,
His mother ceased being a influence when the Jedi Order took him away as a young child.

The loss of his mother became a reason why he was driven to protect others with any means possible.

and the Jedi certainly did not.
The Jedi Order failed to give him the security he needed to allow him to focus on the greater picture.
Such simple things should be evident, but it's not to them.
The needs of normal people matter, and Anakin was closer to being a "Normal Person" then being a "Dogmatic Follower of the Jedi Code".

He--Anakin--chose the traits and impulses he wanted to embrace and follow, while constantly, consciously rejecting the moral structure of the Jedi teaching him.
You mean, Anakin was a normal person, with Super Force Powers.
And the Jedi didn't seem to make any special concessions to help him adjust, despite knowing about his attachments & his need to be a "Normal Person".

They let Jedi Master "Ki-Adi-Mundi", who sits on the Jedi Council, be married to multiple wives & have children.

They couldn't make a special exception for "Anakin" who is far closer to a "Normal Person"?

That seems incredibly hypocritical of their moral structure & shows inflexiblity of the Jedi Order.

Anakin was a colossal idiot who smashed his own head into a brick wall, and instead of learning the obvious ("...gee...that hurts!"), he smashed his head into it again and again.
Anakin was a young man in love, worried about his wife & his mother.
Those are very normal things.
Apparently you seem to lack the ability to understand Anakins Human Side and think he should be some "Perfect Jedi" who follows the Jedi Code like a Robot.
The man is human, he is fallible, but he has his needs.

By the time of ROTS, Anakin knew what the Sith were and the evil they committed, whether it was Maul killing Jinn, all of Dooku's acts before and during the war, and the once-shadowy master Sith manipulating it all.
He was in the thick of things, just like the rest of the Jedi. They were still figuring out the pieces.
It wasn't until Chancellor Palpatine revealed his identity, that they had hard evidence to go with.

He was no child pulled by the nose, confused by smoke and mirrors. He knew what the Sith were and danger and death caused by that cult. No excuses.
He also asked Mace Windu to follow the rules set by the Jedi Council.
He asked him to "Arrest Palpatine", some how Mace Windu arbitrarily changed his mind and decided to become "Judge Dredd" all of a sudden.

Suuure. After years of convenient attacks against Padme which were designed to bolster the move to war / increasing Palpatine's powers during the manufactured crisis...and Palpatine finally revealing that he is the Sith Lord (already known to be a supporter of the warring opposition through the actions of his servants Sith Dooku and the Sith-trained Grievous ), Moronakin just scratched his skull, STILL not being able to figure out that Palpatine was--ultimately--behind the attempts on Padme's life.
Regardless of how it happened, the Jedi Masters & Jedi Knights don't get to become "Judge Dredd" when it suites them.
They were given a clear code of conduct, bring him in alive.
Mace Windu had his chance, and he changed his mind.

Even the worst of the Anakin-defenders do not spin his self-serving choice to follow the evil man in order to save the woman said evil man actively tried to kill to your ridiculous degree.
Wow, so single minded on his view of Anakin that he can't see the forest from the trees.
There's a reason why Anakin fell, because "It was a Trap" set by Palpatine.
To lure him to the Dark side by showing "The Jedi" can't be trusted to keep their words.
Mace Windu inadvertently proved Palpatines point when he decided to go "Judge Dredd" mode on Palpatine.
And then it was "Check Mate" at that point.

You missed the point.
I can say the same about you.
 
@Kamen Rider Blade, when King Features refused to let George Lucas make the Flash Gordon movie he wanted, he took his ideas and made something new. You might be better served following that example. These are supposed to be morality tales for adolescents, and your version has a whole screed about polygamous breeding cults and "heroes can be half evil, as a treat".

You can just go make your own space fantasy with that stuff, it's allowed.
 
@Kamen Rider Blade, when King Features refused to let George Lucas make the Flash Gordon movie he wanted, he took his ideas and made something new. You might be better served following that example. These are supposed to be morality tales for adolescents, and your version has a whole screed about polygamous breeding cults and "heroes can be half evil, as a treat".

You can just go make your own space fantasy with that stuff, it's allowed.
But I would rather play in the Star Wars Universe, I don't want to start another Space Fantasy IP.
I like it here.
 
Do you? That wasn't the vibe.
If I didn't like Star Wars, I wouldn't be watching Star Wars content.
I wouldn't be commenting on a Star Wars thread.

Just because my views on Star Wars differs from other interpretations, doesn't mean I don't like it.

People are allowed to have different PoV on the subject matter.

That's the beauty of art, once it is shown to the public, everybody gets to have their interpretation on it.
 
@Kamen Rider Blade, when King Features refused to let George Lucas make the Flash Gordon movie he wanted, he took his ideas and made something new. You might be better served following that example. These are supposed to be morality tales for adolescents, and your version has a whole screed about polygamous breeding cults and "heroes can be half evil, as a treat".

You can just go make your own space fantasy with that stuff, it's allowed.
Agreed.

As much as I like Star Wars, there are still rules to the universe.

My friends and I use to do fan films a lot and participated in competitions, script submissions, RPGs and the like. One of my friends stopped after starting film school and we had a conversation. He shared that he found creating inside Star Wars was often too limiting and he wanted to be able to create his own productions.

Star Wars is great and has a lot of the groundwork already laid out, but it is a highly spiritual and dualistic perspective of its world and cosmology and that doesn't suit everyone.

Whenever I see people write long posts or topics on world building I really want to encourage them to do their own thing because it lets that creativity out unlimited by preconceived notions on a existing property.

I love what a outdoor humorist once wrote on do it yourself projects: if you start out making something, say a pup tent, and you tell people 'I'm making a pup tent,' people will judge it, call it ugly and call you names. But, if you say it's something kind of new, can it a flunf, all they can say is, 'huh, kind looks like a pup tent.'"
 
Soooo, just trying to understand. There’s an ask on the table to add polyamorous relationships to an established, relatively family friendly space fantasy franchise.

Sigh.

Well, I guess that’s what fanfic is for.

:shrug:
 
Soooo, just trying to understand. There’s an ask on the table to add polyamorous relationships to an established, relatively family friendly space fantasy franchise.

Sigh.

Well, I guess that’s what fanfic is for.

:shrug:
What's so "Un-(Family Friendly)" about Polyamorous relationships?

There's a difference between showing Adult Content & depicting different types of marriage systems in a Space Fantasy franchise.

There shouldn't be any issues with having multiple Husbands & Wives per person.

Especially since I'm hard capping it at 2x per person.

It's a different cultural view on marriage, but it's not a new concept or unique concept.

Phlox from ST:ENT was a Denobulan.
His people's culture had "a rule of 3" up to 3x spouses per person.
So every woman can have 3x Husbands
Every Husband can have 3x Wives.
It gets complicated & becomes a large family very fast.

So depiction of Polyagamous Relationships on popular Sci-Fi franchises isn't a new thing.
 
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