765874 - Unification

[David cgc]

Added Note: in light of all of Spock's tv and film appearances, having someone put on film that Spock and Saavik had a child from a deleted movie scene (these are deleted for a reason- they don't work) is so dreadfully fanboy-ish...AND it ruins Saavik as a character...

It's so ambiguous, he could be a son from years later, after Saavik and Spock got married (as some of the novels presumed), or Saavik's son by another person, or Spock's son by his unnamed wife (Picard was at his wedding, remember), or even just some guy who had an undisclosed relationship to Kirk, Saavik, and/or Spock.

 

[Tarek71]

Well if I had 7 or 8 minutes of screen time to script a final meeting and farewell between a post-Generations Prime Kirk and Prime Spock on his death bed, I would not have ever thought to include Colt or Mitchell. But that apparently is related to previous and ongoing RA shorts that draw upon Star Trek comics storylines that involve Colt. Apparently, she did some time and timeline traveling in those stories.

That aside, I liked it. I would have preferred some dialogue, but somehow "this simple feeling" as Spock said in TMP is enough. Maybe it's enough. No words needed.

The whole thing reminds me of some of the final scenes of 2001:ASO and some of the scenes towards the end of Interstellar. This is not the Nexus, but it is something not entirely within normal space and time either. Kirk sees his TOS self and his circa ST: TWOK self along the way, an aged Saavik, and Spock. Hard to make sense out of all that, but that moment between Kirk and Spock was touching.

 

[fireproof78]

It's so ambiguous, he could be a son from years later, after Saavik and Spock got married (as some of the novels presumed), or Saavik's son by another person, or Spock's son by his unnamed wife (Picard was at his wedding, remember), or even just some guy who had an undisclosed relationship to Kirk, Saavik, and/or Spock.

Or, to quote Tuvok, "They are following their instincts; I suggest we let them."

 

[Tarek71]

It's so ambiguous, he could be a son from years later, after Saavik and Spock got married (as some of the novels presumed), or Saavik's son by another person, or Spock's son by his unnamed wife (Picard was at his wedding, remember), or even just some guy who had an undisclosed relationship to Kirk, Saavik, and/or Spock.

The place where aged Saavik is seems to be a different location from where Spock is. Presumably after Prime Spock disappears from the Prime Universe, never to be seen again, they had some sort of memorial for him. I dont know what they think happened to him. I cant imagine they thought he was alive in the 2250s of another timeline. Maybe he was presumed to be dead.

After Kirk sees grieving Saavik (of the 2380s Prime Universe?), then he gets his Starfleet delta badge back and only then seems to be transported to a new location where death bed Spock is. So maybe Yor had something to do with sending him to the 2260s Kelvinverse on New Vulcan to see Prime Spock one last time.

 

[Dukhat]

Oh please...you first

You are welcome to think whatever you want. If you think this ‘ruined’ Saavik, that’s your issue, not mine. You don’t need to explain yourself, and neither do I.

 

[Cap'n Calhoun]

3. Is the number a stardate? Comes back as 15 November 3088.

Even though it's definitely intended as Colt's serial number, funny that this stardate ends up being one digit off from where Discovery ended up. (Albeit the first digit, which comes out to a 100-year difference.)

It’s not deaging: they use different actors with prosthetics to look like the originals, enhancing everything with CGI.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If I understand properly the de-aged Shatner for some of it and Sam Witwer for other shots. (If I understand correctly, Witwer only played TOS-era Kirk.)
EDIT: This is making me second-guess that statement:

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They definitely used Gary Lockwood for motion capture.

OTOY, in association with William Shatner and the Nimoy Estate, releases ‘765874 Unification,’ commemorating 30th anniversary of “Star Trek: Generations”

On the 30th anniversary of “Star Trek: Generations”, The Archive and William Shatner revisit Captain Kirk’s final appearance on screen in a new 8-minute video produced for The Archive app on Apple Vision Pro: “765874: Unification”, launched in tandem with new interactive sets and documentary...

home.otoy.com

It's so ambiguous, he could be a son from years later, after Saavik and Spock got married (as some of the novels presumed), or Saavik's son by another person, or Spock's son by his unnamed wife (Picard was at his wedding, remember), or even just some guy who had an undisclosed relationship to Kirk, Saavik, and/or Spock.

Robin Curtis says it was meant to be Spock and Saavik's son. She doesn't give a time period. The images at the link above indicate Vulcan's Heart as one of the inspirations. I haven't read the novel, but I understand that it features Saavik's wedding to Spock, and if there's mention of a child as a result of The Search for Spock, I'm not aware of it, so if someone really wants to take this as a continuation of the book the son could've been born later.

That said, I'm leaning toward the inspiration taken from the novel being comparatively limited, especially given the age of Saavik's son and Kirk's reaction to seeing him.

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"Crusher" is credited in the credits as played by John Daltorio. Curious which character that is and if there's meant to be a connection to Wesley.

Was the shot from the teaser of Colt in the Kelvin uniform holding the photo case from Star Trek Beyond not in the final short?

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[Cap'n Calhoun]

But that apparently is related to previous and ongoing RA shorts that draw upon Star Trek comics storylines that involve Colt. Apparently, she did some time and timeline traveling in those stories.

This is a nice analysis of the previous shorts and how Colt likely plays in to all of this:

Thread by @stephen_duignan on Thread Reader App

@stephen_duignan: I was curious about the end of the short film @roddenberry and @OTOY released last week - specifically, the significance of the time jump back to the MOTION PICTURE-era Spock - so I did some...…

threadreaderapp.com

This series of shorts draws quite a lot from the Star Trek: Early Voyages comics that Marvel produced in the late nineties.

 

[jackoverfull]

EDIT: This is making me second-guess that statement:

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Wow, they made him look a lot like shatner even without prosthetics

 

[Bixby]

You are welcome to think whatever you want. If you think this ‘ruined’ Saavik, that’s your issue, not mine. You don’t need to explain yourself, and neither do I.

Unsurprising...

@David CGC: It's so ambiguous, he could be a son from years later, after Saavik and Spock got married (as some of the novels presumed), or Saavik's son by another person, or Spock's son by his unnamed wife (Picard was at his wedding, remember), or even just some guy who had an undisclosed relationship to Kirk, Saavik, and/or Spock.

It's really perplexing that so many people seem just fine with Saavik and Spock getting married, when if you look at the interactions between Kirstie Alley and Nimoy in Wrath of Khan, the two of them display not one iota of attraction or chemistry other than professional respect.

Oh but wait, some of you might say, they are Vulcans and wouldn't the reasons for why they mate be founded in logic? Except if you look at all of the women Spock was attracted to during TOS, there was always a LOT more than logic involved (the Romulan Commander, Leila, Droxine...) Spock broke off his engagement with T'Pring because it would only have been a loveless marriage of convenience, and so one between Spock and Saavik would have been.

So why were Leonard Nimoy and Harve Bennett ok with pushing this idea forward? because despite both men being quite intelligent, they also were born in the very early 1930s, well ahead of when recognizing women as complete equals was a firm concept. Neither man seemed to even consider that Saavik wouldn't keep this hypothetical baby. Saavik was played as a very driven Starfleet cadet, with her eye on an early command (Kirk sees her as a kindred spirit since he gave her temporary command of the ship). Having a child this unexpectedly would force her to pause her military career for many years (she hadn't yet even been assigned for a first tour). The Saavik from Wrath of Khan would NOT abandon her personal ambitions because she sought to save her former commanding officer. Also, the inappropriateness of continuing a relationship with her commanding officer should be considered...

How would making Saavik pregnant with Spock's child have ruined her? Well, making her a much more nonemotional Vulcan in Trek 3 certainly damaged her appeal. In WOK, Saavik almost stole the film. In Trek 3, she's barely a blip, and so much so that she's never reappeared in almost 40 years.

Saavik was greatly appealing due to her subdued emotionalism and stealth sensuality, but also for her fearlessness (she stands up and corrects Kirk, she dives in and joins a dangerous landing party). Like it or not, we all lose a lot of our fearlessness when we become responsible for another life.

Saavik was a breakout character when Wrath of Khan was released, and likely would have replaced Spock in future Star Trek movies had Leonard Nimoy not returned for the third one and onward. But because Spock did so, Nimoy chose wrongly that she should not be more emotional than Spock, so she became a plank of wood which killed her momentum. Having her become pregnant TO Spock would have reduced her as a strong individual character and replaced her as "Spock's baby mama".

 

[fireproof78]

Saavik becoming a mother takes nothing away from her character. She makes a choice and follows through. Her fearlessness continues on by venturing in to a different relationship with her mentor.

I think it's a relationship rife with potential.

 

[Dukhat]

It's really perplexing that so many people seem just fine with Saavik and Spock getting married, when if you look at the interactions between Kirstie Alley and Nimoy in Wrath of Khan, the two of them display not one iota of attraction or chemistry other than professional respect.

Oh but wait, some of you might say, they are Vulcans and wouldn't the reasons for why they mate be founded in logic? Except if you look at all of the women Spock was attracted to during TOS, there was always a LOT more than logic involved (the Romulan Commander, Leila, Droxine...) Spock broke off his engagement with T'Pring because it would only have been a loveless marriage of convenience, and so one between Spock and Saavik would have been.

So why were Leonard Nimoy and Harve Bennett ok with pushing this idea forward? because despite both men being quite intelligent, they also were born in the very early 1930s, well ahead of when recognizing women as complete equals was a firm concept. Neither man seemed to even consider that Saavik wouldn't keep this hypothetical baby. Saavik was played as a very driven Starfleet cadet, with her eye on an early command (Kirk sees her as a kindred spirit since he gave her temporary command of the ship). Having a child this unexpectedly would force her to pause her military career for many years (she hadn't yet even been assigned for a first tour). The Saavik from Wrath of Khan would NOT abandon her personal ambitions because she sought to save her former commanding officer. Also, the inappropriateness of continuing a relationship with her commanding officer should be considered...

How would making Saavik pregnant with Spock's child have ruined her? Well, making her a much more nonemotional Vulcan in Trek 3 certainly damaged her appeal. In WOK, Saavik almost stole the film. In Trek 3, she's barely a blip, and so much so that she's never reappeared in almost 40 years.

Saavik was greatly appealing due to her subdued emotionalism and stealth sensuality, but also for her fearlessness (she stands up and corrects Kirk, she dives in and joins a dangerous landing party). Like it or not, we all lose a lot of our fearlessness when we become responsible for another life.

Saavik was a breakout character when Wrath of Khan was released, and likely would have replaced Spock in future Star Trek movies had Leonard Nimoy not returned for the third one and onward. But because Spock did so, Nimoy chose wrongly that she should not be more emotional than Spock, so she became a plank of wood which killed her momentum. Having her become pregnant TO Spock would have reduced her as a strong individual character and replaced her as "Spock's baby mama".

Still not sure why any of that is analogous to ‘ruining’ her character just because she now had a son with Spock due to the events of STIII. And as far as Kirstie Alley is concerned, her portrayal of Saavik and Curtis’s portrayal were so different that they might as well have been different characters with the same name. That, however, is pretty irrelevant. Curtis’s portrayal seems to be the dominant version the producers went with, while Alley’s was retconned away.

And FYI, while this film gives an implication that Sorak is Spock and Saavik’s son, there’s zero implication that Spock and Saavik got married.

 

[Bixby]

Saavik becoming a mother takes nothing away from her character. She makes a choice and follows through. Her fearlessness continues on by venturing in to a different relationship with her mentor.

I think it's a relationship rife with potential.

Every sentence you use is all about feelings, not evidence.

Let's try it this way: Let's say the Punisher marries a single mother with 3 kids, does he still remain the same Punisher that people want to see in movies and tv?

 

[fireproof78]

Every sentence you use is all about feelings, not evidence.

Let's try it this way: Let's say the Punisher marries a single mother with 3 kids, does he still remain the same Punisher that people want to see in movies and tv?

Poor example: I know little of the Punisher to comment. I don't understand the appeal.

Saavik is a person of duty and logic. Stepping up, caring for Spock on Genesis is a evidence of this. Taking care of a child would be a similar duty.



Regardless, I don't see the ruination of a character just because she became a parent or married.

 

[Bixby]

Still not sure why any of that is analogous to ‘ruining’ her character just because she now had a son with Spock due to the events of STIII.

I will repeat: Saavik from Wrath of Khan was a breakout character and got a ton of press back in the early 80s.
Making her a nonemotional robot in Trek 3 lost her audience appeal (there was barely a ripple of interest in her character after Trek 3 came out)
Had they gone through with making her pregnant and then a mother, do you seriously think in the world of Star Trek she would have had a chance at being a primary character again? (answer: no)

Curtis’s portrayal seems to be the dominant version the producers went with, while Alley’s was retconned away.

And both versions were never seen again...missing out on a potentially lucrative and popular property because of mismanagement is one way to ruin it

 

[Michael]

You’re not making a ton of sense. Having her be the mother to the child of one of the most famous characters in pop culture (and possibly be his wife, too) would absolutely have driven up interest in the character of Saavik. It’s one thing to wish she wouldn’t become a mother out of a desire to not undermine the character’s perceived career-focus. But to think it would have “ruined” her character had she become a mother? That’s just ridiculous.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I must be the only one on the Internet whose reaction to this was "meh." It just doesn't do anything for me. I don't get what all the fuss is about.

You weren't the only one. Why say the actors were involved at all if it is all CGI and there isn't a single spoken line? Why Yeoman Colt? Why Gary Mitchell? Is Saavik even dead at this point? (Nice to see Robin Curtis again, but with all the CGI, they could have CGI'd Kirstie Alley just as easily.)

 

[Bixby]

You’re not making a ton of sense. Having her be the mother to the child of one of the most famous characters in pop culture (and possibly be his wife, too) would absolutely have driven up interest in the character of Saavik.

How did that work out for Carol Marcus? How often has she been mentioned in any Trek movie or tv series since the 80s?

Michael:
It’s one thing to wish she wouldn’t become a mother out of a desire to not undermine the character’s perceived career-focus. But to think it would have “ruined” her character had she become a mother? That’s just ridiculous.

Because she is no longer an independent character when she does...
To use other examples: Lois Lane used to have her own comics series throughout the 50s to the 70s, where , sure she had silly stories trying to trap Superman, but also as a driven investigative reporter. Since they've married her to Superman in the 90s that's completely dried up, because she could no longer have stories independent of Superman. Even more so in the last decade when she now has a son with Superman. The story possibilities became very minimal...

Mary Jane Watson from Spider-Man. She was a popular character for being flighty, flirty, she became a model. Then in the late 80s they married her to Peter Parker even though the 2 characters had nothing in common. They had to seriously change her character to keep the marriage believable or they'd have had to divorce them pretty quickly. The split-up got delayed because the artists drew her as a total Maxim magazine sexpot so that kept reader interest. They even got her pregnant I hear at one point but that pregnancy and marriage got retconned away because those just limit story possibilities for the main character.

I'll give you another: Sara Connor from the Terminator...oh, she did keep her baby, yes, but she had to go from a three-dimensional character in the first film (she starts out as a demure waitress and a bit of a doormat, and ends it finding her courage and strength)...But in Terminator 2 she's stuck as a one-dimensional hardass throughout. And she's popular enough because of that film, but she's completely trapped by this new depiction and viewers will never accept her as anything else (and it's very unlikely she would ever regain the popularity she once had)...

As far as Saavik goes: she was introduced in Wrath of Khan and although she was incredibly popular, going through with the pregnancy would change her into a completely different person before any writer really has a chance to flesh out the WOK character that everyone likes...

 

[jackoverfull]

How did that work out for Carol Marcus? How often has she been mentioned in any Trek movie or tv series since the 80s?

Actually A LOT and she’s even in the Abrams movies.

Also, Sarah Connor became way more popular as a badass fighter with PTSD than as she was in the first movie

 

[Dukhat]

I will repeat: Saavik from Wrath of Khan was a breakout character and got a ton of press back in the early 80s.
Making her a nonemotional robot in Trek 3 lost her audience appeal (there was barely a ripple of interest in her character after Trek 3 came out)
Had they gone through with making her pregnant and then a mother, do you seriously think in the world of Star Trek she would have had a chance at being a primary character again? (answer: no)

I think your personal opinions are getting in the way of actual facts.

And both versions were never seen again...missing out on a potentially lucrative and popular property because of mismanagement is one way to ruin it

Again, personal opinion that is not backed up by actual evidence.

 

[JWolf]

Here is the updated version of Unification 765874.

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