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"Star Trek V: The Final Frontier" or "Star Trek: Generations"?

Which is better?

  • Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

    Votes: 40 51.3%
  • Star Trek: Generations

    Votes: 38 48.7%

  • Total voters
    78
Look, we all know TFF has the disadvantage in SFX and clearly the concept was never completely realized (no rock monsters). But, it does a real, beating heart to it, and Shatner is clearly engaged with the material. Performance-wise, he's the most TOS-invoking of all the films, and directorially its a fine effort.

I recently resaw GEN and I enjoyed it a lot more this time. I used to hate it, and I still do consider it a weakling for those reason, but its not as bad as I remembered it (maybe because The Return as a sequel book really softened its edges for me). And it does have more themes to deal with than the TFF as in aging, death, legacy, the meaning of existence and family, the passage of time, etc. Problem is, for me, the movie feel haphazard and like I'm watching a checklist of things rather than an organic story unfolding. And David Carson, who is excellent of TV, nevertheless doesn't perform very well on the big-screen. As such, I find the effort slight, despite the best of intentions.

TFF and GEN certainly feel alike, as both films are most like the show they came from (INS is also that for TNG, arguably, but this looks like the show also). But GEN doesn't achieve its goals, I feel, though it does have ambition about itself (then again, so did TFF didn't it?) but ultimately it collapses on the weight of that aforementioned checklist, whereas TFF feels like its ingredients don't sink it, but rather the execution of the recipe. Not to mention individual elements going against GEN, such as score (Goldsmith), characters (tie I guess) and villain (while MacDowell is more energetic here than in other '90's trash, he's still underwhelming whereas Luckinbill's Sybok is a hoot). But really, I choose The Final Frontier because, for all its flaws, it does feel like a TOS film made from that show more than GEN does from TNG, because the latter was a definitively ensemble show and the movie barely has the time to focus on two of those characters, let alone any time sparred if any for Kirk and his demise. But TOS was always about those three - Kirk, Spock, McCoy - and its completely suceeds in being a story that engages that dynamic and meaningfully. Does the humor dillute it? Absolutely. Did it need much more money than it got? Yes. Should Shatner had likely taken a more conservative concept for that budget? Probably. But I never hated watching TFF, whereas I did GEN for many, many years.

And I never even mentioned just how bad Kirk's death was handled. Still, they're both perfectly serviceable entries in the movie series. Unlike, you know, Int(r)o (to) the Darkness.
 
I have to re-watch The Final Frontier and Generations back-to-back, despite what I said in my original post. This is, much like TMP and TSFS, another situation where it's tricky for me.

I think TFF looks and feels as much like an episode of TOS as a movie from 1989 can. GEN looks like TNG except it does the things it couldn't have done on TNG itself.

Data's emotion chip is super-annoying. I can't think of an equivalent in TFF. Spock's rocket boots are fun, not annoying.

GEN also relies on Shock Value.
  • Picard's family is killed. Sounds like something straight out of what Ron Moore would do later on in BSG. David's death in TSFS was also Shock Value, but then it explicity carried over with Kirk for the rest of the TOS Movies and became a major plot point for Kirk's character arc in TUC. In GEN, the death of Picard's family only explicitly affects him for that one movie. It's left to us to fill-in-the-blanks and head-canon its affect subsequently.
  • The Enterprise-D is destroyed. I think the E-D was destroyed because "it looks cool!", "we need a new ship for the movies!" and, yes, Shock Value. When the Enterprise was destroyed in TSFS, I'm guessing there probably was Shock Value in 1984 but it also made sense in-story because the Enterprise was tactically disadvantaged and there was no way out. Shock Value works in the moment, when watching something for the first time, but it wears off with repeat viewings, so there has to be more there.
 
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The thing about the losses Our Heroes suffer in TSFS is that it's a reflection of the events of TWOK. The latter is about sacrificing the one for the many, while TSFS does a wonderful job of inverting that and having the many sacrifice for the one, and TVH later unifies those messages: "Is that the logical thing to do?" "No, it is the human thing to do." This is one of the reasons why that trilogy still holds up so well, especially compared to other Trek films; they build and reflect upon each other.
 
I have it. It could've been complex, it could've been a lot to go through and deliberate... but that would've all been overthinking it. Yes, I know that ship has already sailed!

I can weigh the pros and cons of TFF and GEN forever and ever and ever. We could have a back-and-forth forever and ever... but this is what it comes down to:

Even though I think Generations is more ambitious than The Final Frontier -- as a piece of entertainment -- I get more enjoyment out of Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. It's the whole, "Which would would you rather watch?" test again that I used to break the tie between TMP and TSFS.

So, this is my ranking of the Star Trek movies as of 2024-and-three-quarters:

1. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
2. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
3. Star Trek: First Contact
4. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
5. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
6. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
7. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
8. Star Trek: Generations
9. Star Trek: Insurrection
10. Star Trek: Nemesis

Now that I've sorted this all out in my head, I don't expect this order to change for a long time, if ever. This wasn't easy in a lot of cases.
 
I have it. It could've been complex, it could've been a lot to go through and deliberate... but that would've all been overthinking it. Yes, I know that ship has already sailed!

I can weigh the pros and cons of TFF and GEN forever and ever and ever. We could have a back-and-forth forever and ever... but this is what it comes down to:

Even though I think Generations is more ambitious than The Final Frontier -- as a piece of entertainment -- I get more enjoyment out of Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. It's the whole, "Which would would you rather watch?" test again that I used to break the tie between TMP and TSFS.

So, this is my ranking of the Star Trek movies as of 2024-and-three-quarters:

1. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
2. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
3. Star Trek: First Contact
4. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
5. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
6. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
7. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
8. Star Trek: Generations
9. Star Trek: Insurrection
10. Star Trek: Nemesis

Now that I've sorted this all out in my head, I don't expect this order to change for a long time, if ever. This wasn't easy in a lot of cases.
My list would probably be pretty close to this.... but I still would have to drop Generations down to the end. Just on wasted potential and level of frustration for me personally. Insurrection isn't good, but its no worse then an average TNG 2 parter and kind of hits that TFF "its-like-the series!" level. Nemesis is improved by Picard and Data's resolution in modern times, and is a disjointed but action packed story that is almost best viewed through a horror lens. (https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2022/10/24/star-trek-nemesis-doesnt-suck-dracula-movie/4/ https://ew.com/article/2016/07/05/star-trek-nemesis-trashy-fun-vampire-movie/

Not a single Trek movie pisses me off as much as Generations.
 
I think TFF would still be at rock-bottom for me. I own it on Blu-ray and haven't even watched it except for one time when I was trying to do a full rewatch of the franchise with friends. I'm not sure I've ever even listened to the commentary tracks, which is unusual for me.
 
There are some fanedits the improve it greatly, and honestly, one of them is my go-to, and i've probably watched it more times then the actual movie - but i have absolutely no problems with the actual movie, either.
 
1. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
2. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
3. Star Trek: First Contact
4. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
5. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
6. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
7. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
8. Star Trek: Generations
9. Star Trek: Insurrection
10. Star Trek: Nemesis
TFF and GEN are both flawed, but for very different reasons. Before the 4K releases, it'd been a good 15 years since I last saw TFF and 5 years since GEN. Then I rewatched them both almost back to back. GEN is cool for the TNG-on-the-big screen factors. John Alonzo's cinematography. Dennis McCarthy unchained again for the score... but the film completely falls apart in the third act. The Nexus never makes sense. And (coming very much from the TNG side of "TOS vs TNG") Kirk is done dirty. Kill him off, fine. But if you are going to kill him off, stick the landing. "Kirk gets shot in the back" should never have made it past the outline stage, let alone a location shoot. GEN did not stay in its fucking lane.

TFF is under baked, definitely. The worst of the TOS films? Yes. But it doesn't really do any damage to established characters and lore (aside from opening the door to long lost Spock relatives!). On rewatch, the greatest flaw is just how easy it is for Sybok's followers to take over the E-A. The first and third acts are... ok. The Klingons are actually fun. Nimbus III is a pretty good idea. One or two more screenplay drafts could very well have resolved more than half of the existing gripes about the film.

Since we've doing lists...
  1. First Contact
  2. The Undiscovered Country
  3. The Wrath of Khan
  4. The Voyage Home
  5. The Search for Spock
  6. The Motion Picture
  7. Insurrection
  8. The Final Frontier
  9. Generations
  10. Nemesis
FC has a great Picard arc and solidifies a core part of Star Trek lore. So first place. I used to rank TUC on top, but on rewatch I couldn't get over just how almost fourth wall breakingly bad the "racism against the Klingons" came across, the "incompetence of the TOS supporting characters" for quick jokes, and the plot holes. TWOK is a great film, but the gore is just out of place in Star Trek (the "Star Trek vibe" is off in general -- it does go a little too nautical... GR wasn't exactly right, but he did have a point), and in this case the plot holes are insane.

TSFS is underrated. Film the Genesis Planet on location and don't recast Saavik and you have a lot less to complain about. TMP benefits from the now available multiple cuts. Your head holds the best combination of the three.

INS is aggressively mediocre. A relatively harmless two parter with a sky high budget. Neither good nor bad, just there.

Finally, in trying to bring in new blood to the franchise, NEM killed the film side of it.
 
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I can excuse the takeover, because of the skeleton crew, and the psychic control displayed, and because no one has any idea how any of that is working. The brig scene is just about PERFECT.
 
I voted Star Trek: Generations.

Reasoning: It's the best TNG movie.

First Contact is just bad and ruined the Borg.

Insurrection is like a bad TV movie with ja boring plot. What a wasted movie!

Nemesis is just awful, awful, awful, an embarrassing way to end the TNG films.


However, with Generations, despite it's plot holes, flaw and issues, it looks like a TNG film, it feels like one, the [TNG] characters are "in character", and the score sounds like the series but upped big time, with thanks to Dennis McCarthy. And that is no slight on the other scores of the ten original prime universe films (First Contact had an excellent score).
 
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I'm a massive TNG fan and it's my favourite Trek but I didn't like any of their movies. I voted V. I loved the time Kirk, Spock and McCoy spent together. I actually also liked the storyline - probably until the anti-climatic ending. I also saw V in the cinema for my 7th birthday and I thought it was amazing at the time.
 
Seeing the tenor of this thread, I can tell there’s not much point in making an argument of it — but to me Generations is a good film with a solid theme and structure and something to say, whereas The Final Frontier is a fun-but-bad cheese picture.
 
I rewatched the first half of TFF last night (I’ll watch the rest later) and while it’s objectively not a good film, I can’t bring myself to NOT enjoy it, mainly because of the fun character interplay, which captures the spirit TOS more than any other film. That and something of a sense of wonder and adventure.

There are, however, so many dubious WTF moments throughout, from the crappy special effects, to the fan dance (how did nobody think it was utterly degrading to ask Uhura to strip naked like that? From what I can see, poor Nichelle Nichols never objected and just seemed happy to have screen time), the three-breasted cat woman whom Kirk throws into the all too literal pool table where she immediately drowns without even trying to get back up (and why did Kirk just let her die, random, very un-Starfleety murder right there). That’s before it all goes pear shaped with the cheap, lacklustre and fairly nonsensical finale.

Yet I’d definitely rather watch it over Generations, which also has a severely duff premise and plot, but which has the curse of being utterly depressing and funereal in tone. While they got a chance to shine in First Contact, the Next Generation cast did not translate particularly well to the big screen and really lacked the charisma and chemistry of the Original Series cast. Maybe that’s why I can rewatch the first six films over and over again, but the moment I get to Generations i feel the urge to just go back to and watch 1-6 again.
 
I feel as though, among the TNG films, INS had perhaps the most potential to be true to the parent series given that at the end of the day the situation is an ethical and political one...it was exactly the kind of scenario where if it was an episode you'd expect a big conference room scene...but instead we get Action Picard and his Merry Band of Rebels, an increasingly unhinged and and irredeemable villain, an admiral who makes some good points before dying a stupid and predictable death, and yet another Picard versus the Antagonist battle where Our Heroes don't even have enough of the moral high ground to beam both Picard and said Antagonist back to the ship when there's no reason to believe they couldn't have done so.
 
I give the edge to GENERATIONS. Funnily, both films have issues with their third acts, but I never found the third act in GENERATIONS as bewildering as what happens in THE FINAL FRONTIER.

Why did Sybok think God was in the center of the galaxy? Who and what exactly was that being that pretended to be God? Why is any of this happening? And then we get a very unexciting sequence with Kirk being chased by "God" shooting laser beams from its eyes executed in a way that's just incompetent. I know Shatner had problems with not being able to film rock creatures, but in the end he couldn't salvage that climax. It feels like he gave up.

There are fans who think TFF could be fixed with just updating the special effects, but the thing the can't fix that's so baked into the movie is the script. That's why TFF could never get a director's cut. You could polish up the f/x all you like, but you end up just polishing a turd.
 
I lean toward agreeing with you that simply improving the VFX wouldn't fix all of TFF's problems. The novelization did answer, or attempt to answer, some of the questions that the film didn't bother to address, which helped, but I think there are still choices that would be head-scratchers without more significant changes.

The same could, of course, be said of GEN, most particularly, "WTF did Picard choose to go back to the moment that he chose to go back to?"
 
I will defend Star Trek V till the end. This movie captures de Kirk/Spock/McCoy relationship best.
It does.
And it's funny.
It is.
Will never forgive "Generations" for what they did to Kirk.
I don’t either.

As much as I’ve come to like TFF it’s still a guilty pleasure because that plot is just so half-baked and the execution so flimsy. But…I’d still rather watch it over any TNG or Kelvin film.
 
Picard's choice choice of moment is odd, but then again, off hand I can't think of a time in any of the original four prime-universe series where a character didn't make a weird and/or stupid travel point in time. Just trying to make any sese whatsoever, for example, about the Borg sphere's chocie in First Contact, can make your head hurt. Terrible movie, crappy Borg.
 
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