Watching The Animated Series For The First Time

[Christopher]

The effects in TOS "could be better" too, but they were the best the creators could do at the time, and the same goes for TAS, whose first season was produced under an insanely rushed schedule. It's actually impressive that TAS looks as good as it does, and it looks better than a lot of its contemporary shows, even if the images are more static and repetitive. But both its positives and negatives are part of the work as it was created, part of its identity and character and historical context.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Speaking only for myself, I don't have the same emotional investment in TAS as I have in TOS. I never had any complaints about the live action show or effects, and I'm as hardcore "leave it alone" as it gets, but I recognize that the animation on TAS can be better. I'd love to see some eps redone with brand new CGI anim over the original sound tracks.

I actually like the animation. Im not a big fan of cgi animation for television. Its much cheaper looking than what the major motion pictures have the animated series animstion is clean and nest. The space ships are drawn very well.

 

[Shawnster]

It's so weird to me that on the one hand, lots of people object to TOS Remastered replacing the original, comparatively crude visual effects shots in TOS with computer animation, yet at the same time, lots of people say they'd be fine with doing the same thing to TAS. I'm not sure if it's the same people saying both, but it's a double standard nonetheless.

So, basically the same as every other difference of opinion in Trek.

 

[Tallguy]

1) I don't care what they do with either as long as the originals are available. (I would prefer that the original TOS effects were available on Paramount+ just because that's a lot more convenient and available than buying the blu rays from more than 10 years ago. But they are WAY more available than Star Wars.)

2) There has got to be a non zero percentage of the people who object to TOS-R that don't care that there are new FX in TOS as much as they object to the fact that the original FX were better / the new FX are not very good. Especially almost 20 years on.

3) I'm not sure how people get to what "new" TAS would look like. Invariably people say "3D". Like... Pixar? Clone Wars? Arcane? Or are they just imagining that we will animate photo real recreations of TOS using the TAS audio? (I suspect that for a lot of people it's the last one.)

There are a lot of interesting approaches to "refurbished" TAS that could be done with varying degrees of practicality and budget.

I would like to see them re-animated as if the Filmation team had a considerably larger budget. Something closer to or better than their Flash Gordon from a few years later.

And yes, I would like most (not all) of main cast's other roles be replaced. I'd have a hard time replacing Doohan's Arex. But please re-record his Guardian of Forever lines. And every Klingon or Romulan he or George Takei ever did.

You know, I'd be on the fence about Majel's cloud creature from One of Our Planets is Missing.

 

[Christopher]

I would like to see them re-animated as if the Filmation team had a considerably larger budget. Something closer to or better than their Flash Gordon from a few years later.

That is the only way I'd even consider it -- if it honored the original style and design choices, approximated what the creators would have wanted given greater time and resources.

But what I would rather see is new episodes in that vein. Get Paul Wesley, Ethan Peck, Celia Rose Gooding, Martin Quinn, Jess Bush, and whoever, and do an X-Men '97 with it, a sequel series faithfully recreating the look and style with much higher quality, honoring the original by continuing it, rather than insulting it by trying to remake it.

 

[TRON JA307020]

That is the only way I'd even consider it -- if it honored the original style and design choices, approximated what the creators would have wanted given greater time and resources.

But what I would rather see is new episodes in that vein. Get Paul Wesley, Ethan Peck, Celia Rose Gooding, Martin Quinn, Jess Bush, and whoever, and do an X-Men '97 with it, a sequel series faithfully recreating the look and style with much higher quality, honoring the original by continuing it, rather than insulting it by trying to remake it.

Yeah a recrestion of the look would be great. The look has already been done with TNG and VOY each only a couple minutes. So it can be done. The animated series look has a charm that shouldnt be chsnged.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

At the rate AI animation is going, someone could take a TAS episode and translate it, scene by scene, into a photo-real version that looked like the live action TOS actors were playing it. It would of course be more visually repetitive than TOS. Maybe horrifying, but maybe just a little bit awesome. And the actors' estates might sue.

I won't deny that I love these two tributes to The Jetsons:

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But they go pretty far afield from the actual cartoon.

 

[Tallguy]

Welcome to Uncanny Valley. Yikes.

So... Not like that.

 

[Sim]

The first time I saw TAS, it was in a totally butchered German version: They cut down every episode to less than 15 minutes, the voices were different than the German voice actors of TOS, and they inserted so many silly jokes totally unrelated to the original, it was embarressing.

In 1994, a 2nd German version was made available on VHS, this time with the original TOS German voice actors and a decent translation that respected the original.

I very much applauded this new release, but soon I was underwhelmed. The animation is poor, to say the least, but what's even worse, and a thing that can't be excused by poor production values in 1973, they *play the same f**** music over and over again*, until you have to puke. The same music, which isn't that good to begin with, every time again, manages to destroy the best story ideas.

So TOS is a huge wasted opportunity, imo. It could have been so much better, with just a few cheap investments, but that didn't happen.

So it's my least favorite ST series, only DSC managed to fascinate me even less.

 

[Christopher]

I very much applauded this new release, but soon I was underwhelmed. The animation is poor, to say the least, but what's even worse, and a thing that can't be excused by poor production values in 1973, they *play the same f**** music over and over again*, until you have to puke. The same music, which isn't that good to begin with, every time again, manages to destroy the best story ideas.

"Can't be excused?" Hardly. The reuse of a stock music library was entirely normal for 1970s TV animation, and it had been standard practice in movie serials from the 1930s-50s and in many TV series in the '50s and '60s, as well as daytime soap operas and cartoons for decades thereafter. Even the live-action Star Trek did original scores for maybe a third of its episodes and recycled stock music from those episodes for the rest (along with some cues specifically created as generic library music). It's still standard in present-day television in countries such as Japan for a TV series to have a stock library of recycled cues; indeed, many Japanese action shows use the same song or instrumental cue almost every week as a signature theme for a character's or giant robot's transformation, a finishing fight move, or the like.

Really, the only reason American TV stopped using stock music libraries is because the composers' and musicians' unions fought for rules changes that would require new music to be composed and performed for every episode, so that they could stay regularly employed. But that didn't come about until the late '80s, around the time of ST:TNG. In the '60s-'80s, shows were allowed to use stock music for part of each season, but they couldn't reuse a previous season's music in the current season unless they hired musicians to re-record it -- which is why the first-season TOS cues that are reused in season 3 are slightly different performances of the same music, and why the theme arrangement changes every year.

Personally, I love TAS's music, but then, I grew up with it and the same composers' scores to other 1970s and early 1980s Filmation shows. (Which were often mixed and matched, with cues from one show being reused in others. Some of TAS's music originated in Lassie's Rescue Rangers (whose cues were also used heavily in Shazam! and The Secrets of Isis), and the music created for TAS was heard in numerous later Filmation shows including The New Adventures of Batman and Jason of Star Command.

 

[Sim]

"Can't be excused?" Hardly. The reuse of a stock music library was entirely normal for 1970s TV animation, and it had been standard practice in movie serials from the 1930s-50s and in many TV series in the '50s and '60s, as well as daytime soap operas and cartoons for decades thereafter. Even the live-action Star Trek did original scores for maybe a third of its episodes and recycled stock music from those episodes for the rest (along with some cues specifically created as generic library music). It's still standard in present-day television in countries such as Japan for a TV series to have a stock library of recycled cues; indeed, many Japanese action shows use the same song or instrumental cue almost every week as a signature theme for a character's or giant robot's transformation, a finishing fight move, or the like.

Really, the only reason American TV stopped using stock music libraries is because the composers' and musicians' unions fought for rules changes that would require new music to be composed and performed for every episode, so that they could stay regularly employed. But that didn't come about until the late '80s, around the time of ST:TNG. In the '60s-'80s, shows were allowed to use stock music for part of each season, but they couldn't reuse a previous season's music in the current season unless they hired musicians to re-record it -- which is why the first-season TOS cues that are reused in season 3 are slightly different performances of the same music, and why the theme arrangement changes every year.

Personally, I love TAS's music, but then, I grew up with it and the same composers' scores to other 1970s and early 1980s Filmation shows. (Which were often mixed and matched, with cues from one show being reused in others. Some of TAS's music originated in Lassie's Rescue Rangers (whose cues were also used heavily in Shazam! and The Secrets of Isis), and the music created for TAS was heard in numerous later Filmation shows including The New Adventures of Batman and Jason of Star Command.

Well okay, but it annoys me so much, that TAS is thoroughly unenjoyable for me.

Maybe it would be different if they had had a slightly larger stock, but the very same music in *every single episode* just makes me puke.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Well okay, but it annoys me so much, that TAS is thoroughly unenjoyable for me.

Maybe it would be different if they had had a slightly larger stock, but the very same music in *every single episode* just makes me puke.

As Christopher said it was common in those days. The repetitive music in saturday morning cartoons never bothered me at all.

 

[publiusr]

The folks replicating the look of TAS could perhaps use the larger library of 1980’s Filmation stock.

I also think audio books would face less blowback.

Radio, after all, really is the most visual medium.

 

[TRON JA307020]

The folks replicating the look of TAS could perhaps use the larger library of 1980’s Filmation stock.

I also think audio books would face less blowback.

Radio, after all, really is the most visual medium.

One company has replicated the look. They were posted earlier on this thread. A couple minutes of a tng and a voyager episode were done. Very cool.

I would really love the books on audio and with effects sounds and music from TOS.

 

[fireproof78]

It's so weird to me that on the one hand, lots of people object to TOS Remastered replacing the original, comparatively crude visual effects shots in TOS with computer animation, yet at the same time, lots of people say they'd be fine with doing the same thing to TAS. I'm not sure if it's the same people saying both, but it's a double standard nonetheless.

Fandom is replete with these and usually comes down to personal affinity. If we like it any alteration is an affront. If not, it's a harmless experiment.

 

[Tallguy]

Catching up on TAS's 50th anniversary episodes.

Albatross turned 50 last week! I understand why The Time Trap is one of my all time favorite episodes. I even understand why I can comfortably put One of Our Planets is Missing very near The Corbomite Maneuver.

I don't know why I love Albatross so much. But I do. For one thing it's in the category of "episodes that could have straight up been TOS." The only thing that would have been different is the Dramians wouldn't have been as alien looking. But here they are, so WIN!

The only sour note in the whole thing is that Kirk solves the medical mystery. As he's losing consciousness from a fatal plague. C'mon!

And How Sharper than a Serpent's Tooth. How many Star Trek episodes named after Shakespeare quotes actually call out the quote?

It was better than I remembered it. Yes it's Who Mourns For Adonais with a space snake but All Our Yesterdays is City on the Edge of Forever with ice. I love both of them. And HSTAST is not too bad, actually.

 

[Christopher]

I don't know why I love Albatross so much. But I do. For one thing it's in the category of "episodes that could have straight up been TOS." The only thing that would have been different is the Dramians wouldn't have been as alien looking. But here they are, so WIN!

That's actually what bugs me about it. TAS usually strove to take advantage of the potential of animation to tell stories that couldn't have been done on TOS. "Albatross" is a fairly good story for what it is, but there's nothing about it that couldn't have been done on TOS besides the entirely superficial, optional element of the Dramians' design.

 

[JcarlA]

Combining the great stories, original voice actors, and guest voices, the animated series was great ( especially when you compare it to other live action turned animated). The only area that let it down was the animation. I would love to see it get the visual update it deserves.

 

[Christopher]

The only area that let it down was the animation.

By the standards of the time, I'd say the animation was above average. Well, the actual animation, in the literal sense of movement, was minimal, but the designs and artwork were probably the most beautiful and imaginative things on Saturday morning TV in 1973-5. A "visual update" would disrespect the achievement of its artists. Even if it emulated the style, it would still be different people's work replacing the original artists' work. It's like saying you want to see Jack Kirby's art in Fantastic Four #1 replaced with modern computer-assisted art and coloring. The original art looks crude by today's standards, but it is the original art, an inseparable part of the original creation.

I can understand acknowledging the flaws in a created work. Every work has them. Many works from the past don't look as good as modern works, like silent films or old 4-color comics. Many historic works of literature and drama are fraught with misogyny and racism that we despise today, even if we still admire their better qualities. (Heck, TOS itself is guilty of that to a degree.) We can validly acknowledge those flaws and hope that newer works do better. But what I don't understand is this pervasive desire to "fix" the flaws in ST:TAS, a desire that I don't hear when people talk about other past works of fiction or art.

 

[Tallguy]

It's like saying you want to see Jack Kirby's art in Fantastic Four #1 replaced with modern computer-assisted art and coloring. The original art looks crude by today's standards, but it is the original art, an inseparable part of the original creation.

And there you go. I would never replace the art. But seeing it re-told by, say, Alex Ross could be a really fun thing.