What has the new series done to ruin Star Trek this time?

[Phoenix219]

Gaslighting?


Where's my eye roll?


This is nearing ridiculous levels of arbitrary notions. Cochrane, invention of warp drive, Bonaventure, Vulcan conquered or not?

Cloaking devices?

It's just luck and choose and it's ridiculous now.

Or just admit there was a timeline rewrite that changed all of those things during the FC/ENT era and proceed. I don't consider them part of the same continuous timeline, just the same universe, with one iteration of the timeline replacing the previous one. Its no longer the same as what we watched in the 60s and 80s and 90s, but they keep insisting that it is. It is not. I'm not for pick and choosing. I'm for saying this is a new timeline, built on the bones of the old one. If its Prime, then it shoudl look like TOS. It doesn't, so its no longer Prime. Its the same universe, but with different events on the "tape" if you will. Its been rerecorded. rewritten. Stop telling us it hasn't. Stop insisting its all part of one linear story. Its not. You can't watch ENT before TOS, because it didnt' come into existence narratively until AFTER the 24th century shows, or there wouldn't be Borg there. There is an explanation for literally everything, and instead of using it, we insisit its the same and fight about it. Its nonsense. Clearly a different iteration of events on the timeline.


there is a big difference between the minor nitpicking and major retellings of events. Vulcan conquered? Sure, the people that are there now kicked out half the people that used to be there. Works for me.

all the warp drive stuff was changed and rewritten during the FC/ENT era, again.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

That's up to the individual viewer. Ask those who saw TMP the first time and how to reconcile the new Klingons.

Maybe changing the Klingons for TMP was the wrong choice. I don't think so, but I was born after the movie so I didn't have that moment of 'Those are Klingons?' myself. I'm sure someone could make a convincing argument for why they should've left them alone, though the 'heavy tan and beard' look certainly looks a bit dodgy without a little alien to go with it.

 

[fireproof78]

Or just admit there was a timeline rewrite that changed all of those things during the FC/ENT era and proceed. I don't consider them part of the same continuous timeline, just the same universe, with one iteration of the timeline replacing the previous one. Its no longer the same as what we watched in the 60s and 80s and 90s, but they keep insisting that it is. It is not. I'm not for pick and choosing. I'm for saying this is a new timeline, built on the bones of the old one. If its Prime, then it shoudl look like TOS. It doesn't, so its no longer Prime. Its the same universe, but with different events on the "tape" if you will. Its been rerecorded. rewritten. Stop telling us it hasn't. Stop insisting its all part of one linear story. Its not. You can't watch ENT before TOS, because it didnt' come into existence narratively until AFTER the 24th century shows, or there wouldn't be Borg there. There is an explanation for literally everything, and instead of using it, we insisit its the same and fight about it. Its nonsense. Clearly a different iteration of events on the timeline.


there is a big difference between the minor nitpicking and major retellings of events. Vulcan conquered? Sure, the people that are there now kicked out half the people that used to be there. Works for me.

all the warp drive stuff was changed and rewritten during the FC/ENT era, again.

You do you.

This is just recasting for me.

 

[Phoenix219]

The first version was a white guy with white hair in his senior years. The live action version is a middle-aged black man. Same character, same continuity. Just different creator interpretations separated by almost 50 years.

Then by definition it is not the same continuity.

 

[cooleddie74]

It is, the way the first 20 EON Bond films are the same continuity. One fan's refusal to believe it does not make it an alternate timeline. Trek or Bond.

 

[Citiprime]

That's up to the individual viewer. Ask those who saw TMP the first time and how to reconcile the new Klingons.

They were making a movie based on a relatively recently canceled TV series with a limited footprint.

Making those sorts of shifts and changes to a show with only 70 odd episodes over 3 seasons in the mid-1970s is a little bit different than doing it to a 60-year-old established franchise that has enough material that it would take a month to watch it all.

When you remodel a family home you've only had for a few years it hits a little different and evokes different emotions than knocking down walls and repainting the kitchen of a family homestead that's been home for decades.

That's not what they said. They said that storytelling is more important. They're 100% right. That doesn't mean they are going out of their way to destroy the canon, just that it's a secondary concern. Something that they're willing to bend, if they deem it necessary. There's absolutely nothing in Strange New Worlds that outright violates the continuity worse than any other Trek series that followed TOS. What few issues that are present can be easily explained with a little imagination and creativity.

They were confronted about the continuity differences with the Gorn. Goldsman didn't deny it doesn't mesh. And said his vision for the story trumps whatever happens in TOS' "Arena" because he wanted them as "monsters" in Strange New Worlds.

GOLDSMAN: By the way, many of the other “Star Trek” antagonists began as alien, as Other — forgive the use of “alien” — but we learned to connect with them. Not so the Gorn. The Gorn are not understandable to us in this way, not relatable to us in this way. Part of our galaxy is be good, be kind, be empathetic, and also understand that evil exists, because seeing with compassion does [sic] mean you should be blind to horror. The Gorn are monsters.​

His interpretation of the Gorn absolutely goes against the theme of "Arena" and does not fit with continuity. That entire episode of TOS is built around Kirk finding a way to make the Gorn relatable. Kirk finds a way to have empathy for a giant lizard man that may have just murdered a bunch of colonists OVER A MISTAKE, and by doing so impresses the Metrons.

 

[fireproof78]

When you remodel a family home you've only had for a few years it hits a little different and evokes different emotions than knocking down walls and repainting the kitchen of a family homestead that's been home for decades.

I will disagree. To me it's the same.

Kirk finds a way to have empathy for a giant lizard man that may have just murdered a bunch of colonists OVER A MISTAKE, and by doing so impresses the Metrons.

The Gorn were murderous and didn't change by Arena.

 

[BillJ]

The Gorn were murderous and didn't change by Arena.

SNW Gorn are not the Gorn from TOS. Someone had a xenomorph fetish.

 

[HotRod]

SNW Gorn are not the Gorn from TOS. Someone had a xenomorph fetish.

I suspect we'll have a far greater insight into the Gorn after the season 3 premiere.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I suspect we'll have a far greater insight into the Gorn after the season 3 premiere.

Such is the nature of reoccurring species

 

[fireproof78]

SNW Gorn are not the Gorn from TOS. Someone had a xenomorph fetish.

Boy, I'm sure glad we learned so much from just that one example.

 

[Phoenix219]

You do you.

This is just recasting for me.

recasting is when the actor changes, but the surrounding sets and iconography and atmosphere and what not stay the same.

when the actor looks different, the character behaves differently, and the surroundings are 100% different....

then it is something else entirely.

 

[Phoenix219]

It is, the way the first 20 EON Bond films are the same continuity. One fan's refusal to believe it does not make it an alternate timeline. Trek or Bond.

Did they ever change Bond to such an extent it breaks suspension of disbelief to think he is the same character?

 

[cooleddie74]

OH, MORE THAN ONCE. The shifts were often jarring in personality and even some habits.

 

[Phoenix219]

OH, MORE THAN ONCE. The shifts were often jarring in personality and even some habits.

but isn't that the same franchise that had a later bond at the grave site of the wife of the previous actor? didn't they go out of their way to maintain thru-lines, and weren't other characters still played by the same people?

Honest questions based on assumptions. I've honestly never watched a Bond movie beyond a couple old Connery ones, and The Rock with Connery, lol.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

but isn't that the same franchise that had a later bond at the grave site of the wife of the previous actor? didn't they go out of their way to maintain thru-lines, and weren't other characters still played by the same people?

You've basically covered every continuity reference from the first sixteen movies with that first sentence. Though I suppose From Russia With Love did mention Doctor No.

 

[HotRod]

when the actor looks different, the character behaves differently, and the surroundings are 100% different....

Yeah, because nothing in SNW looks or behaves remotely like anything from TOS....

 

[The Wormhole]

Ask those who saw TMP the first time and how to reconcile the new Klingons.

Now, now. Don't you know that's apparently okay because an explanation came along in 2005?

Yes, that's an actual excuse provided by some of the anti-modern change people when TMP changing the Klingons is brought up. And no, they don't like it when you point out that by their very own rules they must wait until twenty-five years after a change is made before they're allowed to complain, as it could get explained in the interim.

 

[at Quark's]

That's up to the individual viewer. Ask those who saw TMP the first time and how to reconcile the new Klingons.

And those individual viewers can be very different, too. I've seen people that apparently weren't able to enjoy any story that had even the slightest error in it (be it 'deviation from previously established canon' or 'logical/loophole error', or 'doesn't quite fly with established science' error), and people that didn't bat an eye when the most flagrant contradictions were introduced. I suppose they target the tastes of the largest group.

 

[BillJ]

SNW acts like a show made in the 2020’s, for all the good and ill it entails. TOS acted like a show made in the 1960’s, for all the good and ill it entailed.

Different world, with different creators, who all brought their experiences to their respective shows. From my perspective, it shows. Which is why I see them as two distinct shows that are different enough from each other that I see them as distinct timelines.

As in all things, everyone’s mileage may vary.