Jayru (JSnaith's) 3D Trek

[Henoch]

My head canon: the TOS Enterprise photon torpedoes are launched from the three nubs/bumps on the phaser array ring above the lower sensor dome, and the side two launchers are capable of rear firing. YMMV .


As for the JSnaith's refit model, I see the photon torpedo launchers moved from the weapon turret to the lower neck. It makes sense that some sort of rear firing photon torpedo launcher would be on the refit. I'd put a launcher feature/hatch on the back of the neck on the same deck as the forward firing launcher.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I could see phaser collimators being positioned there, but not torpedo tubes. I wouldn't think that there is enough room to place a tube long enough to get forward momentum.

 

[JSnaith]

I think the thing to remember is that there are no obvious ports for phasers and torpedo launchers on the TOS model (which I have had the pleasure of seeing). The actual shooting model was only detailed on one side.

In terms of the Phase II refit... I have copies of various plans that show different layouts for the torpedo launchers, from there only being a single forward-facing launcher to a double forward launcher and double aft launcher on the neck, the aft launchers being on the undercut - to there being no aft launchers at all.

Canon says that the TOS Constitution - the Defiant at least, had an aft launcher. I agree that placing it between the impulse engines is just bad thinking, that space is already taken up by a duplicate engineering deck.

I shall... Play with some ideas and see what I come up with.

More likely tomorrow, funeral stuff is taking over my day at the moment.

 

[Henoch]

I could see phaser collimators being positioned there, but not torpedo tubes. I wouldn't think that there is enough room to place a tube long enough to get forward momentum.

The internal arrangement of launchers during TOS are never seen, so, the design and mechanics can be different; i.e. a long launcher tube is not needed. Here's my interpretation of the TOS Enterprise weapon turret:

 

[B.J.]

The argument that they picked the impulse engine is that they didn't want to make a new hole on the ship doesn't make sense. The TOS Enterprise had no visible torpedo launcher ports. It just sounded like they wanted an excuse to put the launcher there when they really didn't need an excuse.

Well, there is a small "hole" right in the middle between the two impulse engine vents. Personally I don't buy it as a potential torpedo launcher, but I understand their reason for not wanting to change the model drastically.

 

[JSnaith]

One of the beauties of all this - is that this is a "Phase II" ship, and Phase II ships have never really been seen on screen. There's a lot of freedom, which is one of the reasons I broke my long-standing rule of not doing a Constitution, I don't have on-screen stuff that I must adhere to.

That being said, as much as possible I want to keep things as logical as possible. One of the reasons for having a separate aft tube on the undercut is that I can dual-purpose it as a marker buoy launcher as well, with the forward launchers doubling as probe launchers. Yes, this would mean having torpedoes stored in two places on the ship - but I don't see that as a big issue. It makes a great deal of sense to not have all your eggs in one basket. But I understand the logical argument for having it all in one place.

Been looking after Mum-in-law today, and so I haven't had a lot of time on the big rig to do anything, but I have given it some thought. Oddly enough I did show her my latest project, and given she's a Trek fan herself we had a nice chat about the design and some ideas going forward.

I think I'm going to play with a few ideas and see what works best.

 

[BK613]

@Henoch If those nubbies were the torpedoes, the Enterprise wouldn't need to "pivot at warp2 and bring all tubes to bear."
@JSnaith Looks good though I wish there was a little asymmetry in the windows, ala the TOS E and Jefferies' The Making of Star Trek drawing.

 

[137th Gebirg]

@Henoch If those nubbies were the torpedoes, the Enterprise wouldn't need to "pivot at warp2 and bring all tubes to bear."

This.

 

[blssdwlf]

Well, there is a small "hole" right in the middle between the two impulse engine vents. Personally I don't buy it as a potential torpedo launcher, but I understand their reason for not wanting to change the model drastically.

Depending on the situation, there was one hole and up to nine holes on the aft impulse section. Or on a ship trying to overload her impulse engines, no holes

Still, it doesn't change the fact that there are no visible torpedo ports on the saucer of the TOS Enterprise. The reasoning to assign a random visible hole on the aft of the ship just sounds like they didn't even watch the series, IMHO.

Of course for @JSnaith it shouldn't matter as he can build his version any way he wants to.

 

[JSnaith]

@Henoch If those nubbies were the torpedoes, the Enterprise wouldn't need to "pivot at warp2 and bring all tubes to bear."
@JSnaith Looks good though I wish there was a little asymmetry in the windows, ala the TOS E and Jefferies' The Making of Star Trek drawing.

I understand about the windows, but I am bridging two eras here, so the layout is deliberate to foretell what will come in the TMP refit.

Depending on the situation, there was one hole and up to nine holes on the aft impulse section. Or on a ship trying to overload her impulse engines, no holes

Still, it doesn't change the fact that there are no visible torpedo ports on the saucer of the TOS Enterprise. The reasoning to assign a random visible hole on the aft of the ship just sounds like they didn't even watch the series, IMHO.

Of course for @JSnaith it shouldn't matter as he can build his version any way he wants to.

The TOS Connie has no visible weapons ports or launch tubes. It wasn't until the series was remastered with new FX that phasers fired from a consistent place, or even looked consistent throughout the series. The new digital ship for those FX had no visible weapons ports either. IMOO, the people making the decision on ENT didn't have a clue about where those ports should be either. Picking a random hole was not the best way to decide.

All that being said, Jeffries did a bang-up job of designing the TOS E (although the primary shooting model was only detailed on one side) and drew up some nice plans and ideas for the Phase II version of the ship. Speaking of the Phaser II version, it was designed to have phaser bumps and visible torpedo tubes. Aft torpedoes? Interesting question. I can't find anything in Matt's notes that says the Phase II version had them. But then I can't find anything that explicitly states the Phase II ship didn't have them.

As I say, I shall have a play with some ideas.

More later.

 

[JSnaith]

Updates -

Detail work on the secondary hull has started. I'm ignoring the paper plans and doing a proper shield grid for the secondary hull. If you have a good argument as to why it wouldn't have one, let me know. Aft torp launcher has been built into the undercut as per idea #1, and the last of the phaser bumps are in place. Banners are also done - no, again am ignoring the paper plans and not putting the ship reg in big bold letters on the side of the secondary hull. I think it's ugly (IMOO). Rebuilt the forward torp launcher "bay" to add some light TMP detail, and round it off better (and so I can change it to idea #2 if needed). Various other tweaks and mesh fixes. Am aware of a problem with the shuttle bay doors and will be fixing.

More later :-)

 

[JSnaith]

Detailing is finished - aside from the rooms behind the windows. Will do that tomorrow (if time permits).

Still going to play around with a few ideas re the torpedo launchers - forward and aft.

Anyways, comments and the like welcome - more tomorrow!

 

[Henoch]

@Henoch If those nubbies were the torpedoes, the Enterprise wouldn't need to "pivot at warp2 and bring all tubes to bear."
@JSnaith Looks good though I wish there was a little asymmetry in the windows, ala the TOS E and Jefferies' The Making of Star Trek drawing.

Strong argument, but if the Klingon ship goes into the rear quarter of the Enterprise, then the forward-most tubes (front nub = two tubes) is not in a firing arc, and if the enemy is in the rear-side quarter, then the opposite side tubes (port or starboard nub) is not in the firing arc. To bear all tubes, then the enemy needs to be in forward 3/4 of the ship is my theory. YMMV.

 

[BK613]

Strong argument, but if the Klingon ship goes into the rear quarter of the Enterprise, then the forward-most tubes (front nub = two tubes) is not in a firing arc, and if the enemy is in the rear-side quarter, then the opposite side tubes (port or starboard nub) is not in the firing arc. To bear all tubes, then the enemy needs to be in forward 3/4 of the ship is my theory. YMMV.

And the three torpedoes (2, 4 and 6) that they fire at the Orions in a single direction (Journey to Babel)?
Which evokes in me the image of six tubes—two groups of three stacked vertically—with the port ones even-numbered and the starboard ones odd-numbered—numbered just like you will find on most submarines. Something they also been known to do for missile tubes.

 

[Henoch]

And the three torpedoes (2, 4 and 6) that they fire at the Orions in a single direction (Journey to Babel)?
Which evokes in me the image of six tubes—two groups of three stacked vertically—with the port ones even-numbered and the starboard ones odd-numbered—numbered just like you will find on most submarines. Something they also been known to do for missile tubes.

Naval Port/Starboard numbering makes sense in reality, but based on the vague FX of the original and TOS-R, it appears that the Enterprise can shoot two photon torpedoes quickly together (pew-pew), up to three times in a row, with the first two coming from the center and the next two salvos coming slightly off port then slightly off starboard of the center position. This suggests that the tube arrangement is two launchers forward and two each launchers port and starboard, hence my weapon turret design. Regardless of the set-up, I also think that the TOS photon torpedo is not a solid body once it is launched, rather all of it or maybe just its outer shell is converted to an energy state blob (similar to transporter tech.), launched (teleported?) just outside of the ship's launcher and accelerated (up to unknown speed?) at the target. There may be a guidance system but its capabilities during high warp combat is limited. I theorize that the "bigger" launchers on the TMP+ refit Enterprise accelerates the pill-shaped torpedo (new/advanced design?) up to higher speeds and range than the old TOS turret system. YMMV.

 

[JSnaith]

More work on the shuttlebay -

More tomorrow

 

[137th Gebirg]

I love the slight battleship blue/gray tint you gave it in the first pic. Maybe it's just the lighting, but that gives it some extra life and scale.

 

[BK613]

YMMV.

It does.
And I've probably derailed this thread enough.

 

[JSnaith]

I love the slight battleship blue/gray tint you gave it in the first pic. Maybe it's just the lighting, but that gives it some extra life and scale.

Thank you! Yes, it is a blue-grey, and it's been a PITA to get right, lol.

It does.
And I've probably derailed this thread enough.

It was all interesting to read :-)

 

[BK613]

Thank you! Yes, it is a blue-grey, and it's been a PITA to get right, lol.

I like the lighter gray version more: it's more TOS and less TOS-R (which is what the darker gray makes me think of.)

It was all interesting to read :-)

Maybe, but we should be talking instead about your cool take of the Phase II ship instead.
Speaking of which, no docking rings? Jefferies' plan for the E had that weird pentagon one and the TMP E had 5 visible ones.