Ok. What is the chance of a Picard spinoff?

[The Wormhole]

Did RMB ever apologise?

Never.

It would still be interesting to know the level of permission that Matalas got from Kurtzman and Paramount in regards to releasing these scripts,

It's not really that involved a matter. As showrunner, Matalas would go to Kurtzman saying "I got a guy I want to show the scripts to." Kurtzman would shrug, say "it's your show" and sign a consent form allowing Matalas to do such a thing. The fact that it's RMB reading the scripts isn't likely something Kurtzman or anyone else at Paramount would be aware of.

 

[James Cole]

RMB himself tweeted about reading the S3 scripts back in June 2022, eight months before the premiere. Matalas confirmed he allowed RMB to read the scripts here. You yourself even commented on the matter here. So don't act like this is the first you're hearing about it now.

May have seen, may have read. Seems to me like some structural ambiguity at play. He's gone over this numerous times on YouTube streams and when he became more specific it was always about a postproduction rough cut.

As to the second Tweet. Say RMB saw the rough cut. He DMs Matalas something that only someone with knowledge of the production would know. Matalas then confirms well yeah he knows...

At this point this is becoming the two films on one screen phenomenon.

 

[Lord Garth]

I had a feeling he had access to more than just Picard over the years. I will say that I dont think I had heard of the guy prior to Picard S3, so maybe it's the same for others, hence this whole Matalas thing.

Oddly enough, I did see Free Enterprise when I was a kid and thought it was going to be something completely different to what it was. That's all I remember.

I first heard of RMB during Discovery, I don't remember at exactly which point -- but it was somewhere from 2018 to 2020 -- and I know he hated the show.

I also remember that a lot of people said "Who cares what RMB thinks?!" I was one of them. Do you know who else was one of them? Several people here who now care that RMB had access to more than the rest of us, when they knew about this before. Except now it's about Picard Season 3. A season that Terry got RMB to say something different about. Now they care. I didn't care before and I don't care now.

All I care about is what I actually watched. When I'm watching I'm not thinking, "Oh my God! RMB got an advanced copy of a rough cut!" It doesn't matter. Not only I do not care, neither should anyone else, unless it's their job to. And speaking of which: yeah, if it wasn't approved, Terry Matalas would've been blacklisted and wouldn't have received any offers to work anywhere else on anything else.

 

[Firebird]

RMB himself tweeted about reading the S3 scripts back in June 2022, eight months before the premiere. Matalas confirmed he allowed RMB to read the scripts here. You yourself even commented on the matter here. So don't act like this is the first you're hearing about it now.

It's true, RMB has had inside access the modern Trek productions going back to when Disco started. It was from him we learned a month in advance the Guardian of Forever was going to show up on Disco. The difference was back then it was a matter of people he knew involved in the productions leaking stuff to him, while with Picard S3 we got a showrunner actually indulging him and granting him official access. Which is a real bad look for Matalas considering RMB is the literal definition of a toxic fan and makes no effort to hide it. RMB is after all the guy who once tweeted that a woman should be publicly sexually assaulted just because she wrote a Disco episode he didn't like. By indulging RMB to the degree he did, Matalas retroactively legitimized that kind of behavior. Which, as I said, is a bad look for him.

What chaps my ass is RMB continuing to have all this access to anything related to Paramount following his unprofessional/abusive/stalkerish behavior during his association with the Axanar debacle/scam. He pissed off TPTB to the point that he became persona non grata with the studio and was no longer welcome to collaborate with Roger Lay on the various new blu-ray sets.

At some point, that bloviating blowhard managed to slither his way back into someone's good graces. Something makes me think his association with Mark Altman or Daren Dochterman is what got him back in the orbit of the shows. I question the judgement of anyone that continues to associate with RMB, especially those that handwave his behavior simply because they're friends with him.

 

[FederationHistorian]

There are two versions of Legacy running around: Matalas's version and the fans' version.

* Matalas wanted to do an anthology series (one that would not have featured Seven and the E-G crew). Matalas's show would've been more of a "Where Are They Now?" series ("What's happening with the Klingon Empire? What's happening on Bajor this week? How's Alexander doing?")

Only the most die-hard, nitpicky fans would be drawn to a show like this.

* The show the fans are campaigning for (me included) would feature Captain Seven and the Enterprise-G crew.

Those ideas are one and the same. At least for the first season of Legacy.

The way Legacy was framed by Matalas, with members of the TNG cast involved, S1 is basically PIC S4, especially if the plan is to lead into a PIC movie. And if not, then its still reliant on nostalgia like SNW is.

What about the new characters? (Dr. Ohk, Mura, Esma, and Shaw?)

If they are a part of the show, which is no guarantee as the Stargazer crew from S2 were binned prior to S3, any development of them depends of the vision of the showrunner.

They could be developed, as part of an ensemble cast. Or they could be set dressing and not meaningfully developed at all (like the DIS bridge crew) while all of the focus is on Seven, Raffi, Jack and Sydney.

They could also be killed off early on in the show, or in a Legacy movie. Shaw already had been killed off, unless Matalas has a way to resurrect him.

SNW has Pike, Spock, Uhura, Chapel, Number One, Kirk, M'Benga, April, and Scotty. The SNW nostalgia-fest is OK but Legacy isn't?

SNW is basically the story of how Kirk and his crew got together. I already saw a version of that with the Kelvin films.

Comparatively, Legacy is a blank slate.

I actually would like to see what the Klingon Empire is up to. I think it's not where people think, especially given what Ezri said, "I think the Klingon Empire is dying and it deserves to die."

My issue with following up with the Klingon Empire isn’t that Matalas would do that. But why lead with that?

It’s falling into the exact same trap that DIS ran into – there’s nothing interesting to explore in this particular time period (in this case, the 25th century) but the Klingons.

True, the Klingons are such an established staple of Trek. But they are such an established staple that they may as well have their own anthology miniseries by this point.

Prodigy season 2 should be the template for any sort of 25th Century show going forward, not Picard season 3. Despite both seasons being filled with lore and fan service etc, Prodigy actually feels like a show that's looking forward, with new ideas and new characters. Picard felt like a show that was stuck in the past.

I have no problem revisiting the Klingons, the Cardassians, the Romulans, or any number of species we met over the course of the Berman era. I just don't want Matalas to be the one to do that. He brought back the Changelings already and did absolutely nothing interesting with them. They have some old grudges that don't get resolved by the end of the season. (Picard doesn't even try to reason with her on that one, just goes straight to executing her.) They make an alliance with the Borg that makes no sense on paper and isn't even remotely explained within the show. Worst of all they get brushed aside eight episodes in to make way for the Borg. There's no DS9 characters involved, besides Worf who provides absolutely no insight on them besides like one throwaway line.

It's shallow world-building. It's name-dropping something I'm familiar with without giving me anything new to latch onto. By the end of the season I know nothing about the Changelongs I didn't already know by the end of DS9. Honestly, I think I understand them less.

I do not want this guy to tell me what happened to the Klingon Empire, because I already know the answer will be uniquely uninteresting. I don't want this guy fleshing out the 25th Century because I don't think he has anything noteworthy to say.

If we're gonna make a Legacy show, then put someone like the Hageman's or Waltke in charge. There's nothing wrong with leaning on Trek's history and utilising it when it makes sense, but for Gods sake, let's do something fresh with it.

Ok.

But if I’m a creative hired to be the showrunner of Legacy, why would I want to use what Matalas set up? Why use the crew, the immediate post PIC S3 setting, or even the Ent-G? Yes, there’s the legacy that Seven is trying to carve out for herself, and the legacy of the Enterprise, and what's become of the various interstellar powers from the Berman era. But what if I want to think bigger with the concept of legacy? And I do not want to be confined to the Enterprise, or even Starfleet altogether?

At that point, Legacy becomes a brand new show far removed from the intended vision.

 

[Lord Garth]

My issue with following up with the Klingon Empire isn’t that Matalas would do that. But why lead with that?

I didn't say I thought they'd lead with that, just that I'd want to see it. It doesn't have to be first. And I didn't read anything -- that I recall -- where Terry Matalas said he'd start off with Klingons, just that he'd get to them.

To be totally honest, what I want to see foremost is more of the Romulan Free State. I would've said the same thing immediately after Picard Season 1.

EDITED TO ADD: Though, not a Big Deal to me if Legacy did start with the Klingons. (Not that I think they will.) Other than Worf, we didn't see them in Picard at all. And in Discovery, we didn't see them in any of the seasons that took place in The Future. So, I think we're overdue. Chronologically, DS9 remains the Final Word on the Klingon Empire in general. That was 25 years ago.

I don't consider 23rd Century Klingons and 24th Century+ Klingons to be the same thing. Despite different makeup in all the various productions (Into Darkness, DSC, and SNW), the differences between the way TOS Klingons act and the way TNG Klingons act has been maintained.

 

[Danja]

The way Legacy was framed by Matalas, with members of the TNG cast involved, S1 is basically PIC S4, especially if the plan is to lead into a PIC movie. And if not, then its still reliant on nostalgia like SNW is.

My complaint is why does SNW get a pass for pulling the nostalgia card while Legacy doesn't?

But if I’m a creative hired to be the showrunner of Legacy, why would I want to use what Matalas set up? Why use the crew, the immediate post PIC S3 setting, or even the Ent-G? Yes, there’s the legacy that Seven is trying to carve out for herself, and the legacy of the Enterprise, and what's become of the various interstellar powers from the Berman era. But what if I want to think bigger with the concept of legacy? And I do not want to be confined to the Enterprise, or even Starfleet altogether?

At that point, Legacy becomes a brand new show far removed from the intended vision.

If I just wanted to watch (A Show) about (Some Ship) zooming about the galaxy, there's about twenty seasons worth of Trek that will give that to me (It's the main reason why I haven't been able to get into Disco or Strange New Worlds).

Gosh-darn nice, competent, enlightened, goody-goody Captain skippering (A Ship) in the 24th-25th century era? I have Voyager, TNG, Prodigy, and Lower Decks for that.

Why bother doing (A Show) about (Some Ship) in the 25th century if it's just going to be warmed-over TNG? That's what hobbled Voyager in ITS first three seasons (prior to Seven of Nine coming along in S4).

Seven of Nine is unlike any other captain the Enterprise has ever had. No other Captain has had her shady past (she was evil incarnate for eighteen years).

What does someone like Seven have to offer a crew after all the slimy things she's done? (She started as a villain. She's killed and enslaved. She tried to seize control of Voyager.)

That sets Legacy (or whatever it ultimately ends up becoming) apart from anything produced in the past.

Don't want to be confined to the Enterprise? We've got Starfleet Academy going in the 32nd century.

Spoiler: Disco

Hell, do something Prodigy-style in which a group of explorers come upon the wreck of the Discovery in the 42nd century.

 

[fireproof78]

My complaint is why does SNW get a pass for pulling the nostalgia card while Legacy doesn't?

How it's used.


Though Kirk and Scotty are pushing the line for me.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Exactly. SNW is about Pike and what happened before Kirk took command of the Enterprise. That's a clear cut deal. Of course TOS characters will be there. They're part of the premise of the show. Pike. Enterprise. TOS.

Legacy is about "what is this TNG/DS9/VOY character up to now and how many of them can we fit into our show to make the target audience feel nostalgic". But... it wouldn't HAVE to be about this. It could be so much more. That's what irks me.

 

[Danja]

Legacy is about "what is this TNG/DS9/VOY character up to now and how many of them can we fit into our show to make the target audience feel nostalgic". But... it wouldn't HAVE to be about this. It could be so much more. That's what irks me.

I won't deny there's a risk of overdoing it (See: Strange New Worlds).

Seven is going to be the primary legacy character. The rest of the crew (The La Forge sisters, Jack Crusher, Shaw, Dr. Ohk, Mura, Esma) is relatively undeveloped.

 

[James Cole]

My complaint is why does SNW get a pass for pulling the nostalgia card while Legacy doesn't?

Because it's engagement farming for polarized interaction on this BBS?

 

[Campe]

How it's used.


Though Kirk and Scotty are pushing the line for me.

There certainly is a difference between using legacy characters in a new way and having sequels to multiple storylines. I’m not going to say which one is better because at the end of the day that’s down to personal preference. I will say that I prefer what SNW does in comparison to Picard season 3.

If there is a Star Trek: Legacy, I will give it a fair shot just as I have with every other series. And likely I will enjoy certain elements of the show and dislike others. Just like I have with every other series.

But yes, finding Scotty was a bit of unnecessary. I think the actor does a fabulous job based upon what I’ve seen though.

 

[fireproof78]

There certainly is a difference between using legacy characters in a new way and having sequels to multiple storylines. I’m not going to say which one is better because at the end of the day that’s down to personal preference. I will say that I prefer what SNW does in comparison to Picard season 3.

If there is a Star Trek: Legacy, I will give it a fair shot just as I have with every other series. And likely I will enjoy certain elements of the show and dislike others. Just like I have with every other series.

But yes, finding Scotty was a bit of unnecessary. I think the actor does a fabulous job based upon what I’ve seen though.

Indeed, yes, across the board. It is not an all or nothing proposition, but one that depends on the execution.

 

[Campe]

Indeed, yes, across the board. It is not an all or nothing proposition, but one that depends on the execution.

And that’s exactly the issue with a lot of this argument. We all have given these shows a chance. Some have continued to watch and some have chosen to stop. That’s fine and all if you don’t like it. But it’s unfair to call a show out on it being “not good” if you’ve only watched an episode or two. It’s so black and white, one does not see that there are shades of gray in the equation. Say it wasn’t for you and that’s fine.

I tried to be very even handed in my criticism of Picard season 3. Yes, there were many aspects that I did not enjoy. Part of that, honestly, was being told that I was wrong for many of those aspects I didn’t enjoy and that probably sullied a lot of my commentary while and directly after the show aired. But there was also a lot of good there as well and I tried to admit that. Overall, it’s not the way I like my series to be, but I get that it was extremely well liked by segments of the Star Trek fandom. And that’s wonderful for them! I hope they get their Legacy series.

 

[fireproof78]

I tried to be very even handed in my criticism of Picard season 3. Yes, there were many aspects that I did not enjoy. Part of that, honestly, was being told that I was wrong for many of those aspects I didn’t enjoy and that probably sullied a lot of my commentary while and directly after the show aired. But there was also a lot of good there as well and I tried to admit that. Overall, it’s not the way I like my series to be, but I get that it was extremely well liked by segments of the Star Trek fandom. And that’s wonderful for them! I hope they get their Legacy series.

Again, extremely well said. I agree on all counts.

Just because it's not to my preference doesn't make it bad, or even unwatchable. Just, and I know this is weird to contemplate, not for me.

Almost like...diversity of opinion or something.

 

[Campe]

Again, extremely well said. I agree on all counts.

Just because it's not to my preference doesn't make it bad, or even unwatchable. Just, and I know this is weird to contemplate, not for me.

Almost like...diversity of opinion or something.

Hmmm… almost like infinite diversity… in… infinite combinations. But who would believe in something like that?

 

[PR109]

Legacy doesn't have to feed on nostalgia. They could really do something brilliant.

 

[fireproof78]

Legacy doesn't have to feed on nostalgia. They could really do something brilliant.

Such as?

 

[Campe]

Legacy doesn't have to feed on nostalgia. They could really do something brilliant.

That would be great. But Terry’s pitch for Legacy was steeped in nostalgia. I believe he could do something brilliant not pulling from the memory banks. But we’ll see if that’s the case. I’m also curious as to what that might look like.

 

[HotRod]

Legacy doesn't have to feed on nostalgia. They could really do something brilliant.

Tell that to Matalas and his devotees.