Spoilers Star Trek Discovery - Starships and Technology Season Five Discussion

[Kamen Rider Blade]

If they are still in energy form then there are no atoms to compress. You're making assumptions on how Discovery's future tech should work when there is no basis for it.

You're also assuming that they changed how Transporters work, but I'm not.
It may be faster, everybody might have remote access, but I'm working under the assumption that the fundamental processes are still the same.

You are willing to carve out an exception for a small buffer to hold giant things before moving them to their destination but you are unable to accept the possibility of using a small buffer to hold a single person like Moll using significantly better technology and hold him without any degradation? From your argument the size of the buffer doesn't matter. Hmm

When you're moving something as large as a whale, you can move them piece by piece until it's all assembled.
The pattern buffer is temporary for the amount of stuff you need to hold.

When you want to hold things in long term storage, that's when you need a massive pattern buffer.

Two very different problems to solve.

 

[Macintosh]

- Despite being smoking and full of holes last week, today Discovery seems pretty pristine. Those newer DOTs do great work.

It's all that Delta Quadrant tech Voyager brought back with them. Every DOT is now equipped with a reset button.

 

[blssdwlf]

You're also assuming that they changed how Transporters work, but I'm not.
It may be faster, everybody might have remote access, but I'm working under the assumption that the fundamental processes are still the same.

I'm also assuming that technology had progressed in 900 years that transporters that the 23rd/24th century limitations no longer apply.

When you're moving something as large as a whale, you can move them piece by piece until it's all assembled.
The pattern buffer is temporary for the amount of stuff you need to hold.

When you want to hold things in long term storage, that's when you need a massive pattern buffer.

Two very different problems to solve.

If you can't move the whole thing at once then I pity the whale getting assembled chunks at a time. It doesn't sound like the background technology description was fully thought through here.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I'm also assuming that technology had progressed in 900 years that transporters that the 23rd/24th century limitations no longer apply.

Ok, I'm assuming base physics still apply, gravity is gravity, matter is still matter, you can't compress your atoms.

If you can't move the whole thing at once then I pity the whale getting assembled chunks at a time. It doesn't sound like the background technology description was fully thought through here.

For Transporters, if the object is large enough, they'll split it up into chunks and move them piece by piece.
Given how fast computers were in the 24th century and how fast we see them in the 25th century, it takes < 1-3 seconds to go through the entire transporter process.

While you're locked in, you generally can't move much, and you're there in a few seconds.

Most people will never notice that your atoms are getting ripped apart and reassembled.

You won't feel anything.

Hell, they beam entire Shuttles and the massive crew of a Klingon D7 when Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant.

The only way they can move that many people at a time is to split them up into piece by piece and assemble things really fast.

That's the beauty of computers, REALLY fast at doing things in chunks.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I suppose that the matter that comprises L'ak's body could itself be stored suspended in a pocket of subspace, thus isolated from our universe and not limited to what Moll can carry around on her wrist. It would effectively be a purpose-used dimension of limited relative size, and wouldn't store the actual item, but the atoms that make it up only, maybe in some sort of energy field to keep it ready for reassembly. The buffer would funnel the matter to this pocket for longer-term storage, and draw it back when needed. So someone wouldn't be conscious or whatever, just kept in what would effectively be a separate dimension and suspended until brought back.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Transporter_suspension

As for how to POWER all this magical tech, other dimensions could provide the answer there too. They did something like it in Stargate Atlantis, which has tech powered by modules that siphon energy from artificial pockets of subspace. In one episode, they even try raiding a supposedly "blank" dimension for its energy to be a power source, with the hilariously disastrous results expected from Doctor Meredith "Rodney" McKay.

https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/McKay_and_Mrs._Miller

Mark

 

[blssdwlf]

Ok, I'm assuming base physics still apply, gravity is gravity, matter is still matter, you can't compress your atoms.

Have you considered that "compressing your atoms" is a non-issue with the pattern buffer? Going by the old 23rd/24th century description of how transporters operate the person is broken down into a stream of subatomic particles prior to entering the pattern buffer. The size of the atoms are not relevant.

For Transporters, if the object is large enough, they'll split it up into chunks and move them piece by piece.
Given how fast computers were in the 24th century and how fast we see them in the 25th century, it takes < 1-3 seconds to go through the entire transporter process.

While you're locked in, you generally can't move much, and you're there in a few seconds.

Most people will never notice that your atoms are getting ripped apart and reassembled.

You won't feel anything.

Hell, they beam entire Shuttles and the massive crew of a Klingon D7 when Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant.

The only way they can move that many people at a time is to split them up into piece by piece and assemble things really fast.

That's the beauty of computers, REALLY fast at doing things in chunks.

Unless that isn't how transporters work. People talking in transit (ST2) and the conscious grabbing of other people in transport ("Realm of Fear") would suggest there are more things at work than what is written bts.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Have you considered that "compressing your atoms" is a non-issue with the pattern buffer? Going by the old 23rd/24th century description of how transporters operate the person is broken down into a stream of subatomic particles prior to entering the pattern buffer. The size of the atoms are not relevant.

Even if you break your atoms into SubAtomic Particles, those have to go somewhere for storage.
The total mass of a person shouldn't fundamentally change, especially since you have to reassemble them back to it's original form.

Unless that isn't how transporters work. People talking in transit (ST2) and the conscious grabbing of other people in transport ("Realm of Fear") would suggest there are more things at work than what is written bts.

Maybe, but it's so fast, that you wouldn't notice most of it.

 

[blssdwlf]

Even if you break your atoms into SubAtomic Particles, those have to go somewhere for storage.
The total mass of a person shouldn't fundamentally change, especially since you have to reassemble them back to it's original form.

Unless that matter stream is converted into energy which has no mass. These 32nd century portable transporters are there own proof that the problems you point at are a non-issue.

Maybe, but it's so fast, that you wouldn't notice most of it.

How exactly is Barclay and other crewmembers able to grab other people stuck in the transporter buffer while he is in transit in "Realm of Fear"?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Unless that matter stream is converted into energy which has no mass. These 32nd century portable transporters are there own proof that the problems you point at are a non-issue.

All things have mass, even if it's very tiny.

Portable Transporters that didn't work when they were shunted back in time due to the Time bug a few episodes back?

If they were fully working portable Transporters, they should work regardless of when they were on Discovery.

Yet in the past, it didn't work, so the "Portable Transporters" must be remote controlling the main transporters on the ship.

How exactly is Barclay and other crewmembers able to grab other people stuck in the transporter buffer while he is in transit in "Realm of Fear"?

The buffers were linked between the USS Enterprise & the USS Yosemite.

So he has access to both buffers while transporting between vessels.

 

[blssdwlf]

All things have mass, even if it's very tiny.

Energy doesn't have mass. Convert mass to energy. Pretty simple solution.

Portable Transporters that didn't work when they were shunted back in time due to the Time bug a few episodes back?

If they were fully working portable Transporters, they should work regardless of when they were on Discovery.

Yet in the past, it didn't work, so the "Portable Transporters" must be remote controlling the main transporters on the ship.

I'll need to catch up on that episode before I comment

The buffers were linked between the USS Enterprise & the USS Yosemite.

So he has access to both buffers while transporting between vessels.

Linked or not, if the person is disassembled during transport they shouldn't be able to interact with anything. Yet they do.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Energy doesn't have mass. Convert mass to energy. Pretty simple solution.

That would be pretty powerful if they could keep his matter stuck in Energy for a prolonged period of time.
Hopefully they figured out how Scotty managed to keep himself stuck in the Pattern Buffer and mass produce that technique / technology. That would allow ALOT of storage of items or people that need to be saved and have HUGE application for life saving tech.

Linked or not, if the person is disassembled during transport they shouldn't be able to interact with anything. Yet they do.

However Barclay grabbed that thing, the visual portrayal to us was that while in the Matter Stream, Barclay thinks he's a whole solid person, so he can do stuff while in the Matter Stream.

Either way it worked for him to recover the crew from the Yosemite and he taught Worf and his security crew how to do the same to save the other Yosemite crew members.

 

[blssdwlf]

That would be pretty powerful if they could keep his matter stuck in Energy for a prolonged period of time.
Hopefully they figured out how Scotty managed to keep himself stuck in the Pattern Buffer and mass produce that technique / technology. That would allow ALOT of storage of items or people that need to be saved and have HUGE application for life saving tech.

They had 900 years to figure it out

However Barclay grabbed that thing, the visual portrayal to us was that while in the Matter Stream, Barclay thinks he's a whole solid person, so he can do stuff while in the Matter Stream.

Either way it worked for him to recover the crew from the Yosemite and he taught Worf and his security crew how to do the same to save the other Yosemite crew members.

The ability for them to do that would suggest that people in transit are still whole and not sent in pieces as you suggested earlier.

All things have mass, even if it's very tiny.

Portable Transporters that didn't work when they were shunted back in time due to the Time bug a few episodes back?

If they were fully working portable Transporters, they should work regardless of when they were on Discovery.

Yet in the past, it didn't work, so the "Portable Transporters" must be remote controlling the main transporters on the ship.

Actually they also jumped forward to the future year 3218 and it also didn't work. The dialogue pointed to the Krenim Chronophage preventing them from beaming and not the lack of technology in the past.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

They had 900 years to figure it out

Hopefully, cause that would aid in ALOT of life saving due to over taxing of Medical Resources.
Medical Triage would be ALOT easier if you can freeze certain patients in a Pattern Buffer until later.

The ability for them to do that would suggest that people in transit are still whole and not sent in pieces as you suggested earlier.

Yet guys like Dr. McCoy complained about having their atoms ripped to Billions of pieces and reassembled.
I don't think smart guys like Dr. McCoy would lie about that.
What a person perceives and what is shown might actually be different from what happens in universe to some degree.
Remember, we also got incorrect models of the USS Enterprise in ST:PIC.
We've had phasers fired out of Photon Torpedo ports in TNG.
So some artistic liberties might be implied when you're in the few seconds of being beamed from A to B.


Actually they also jumped forward to the future year 3218 and it also didn't work. The dialogue pointed to the Krenim Chronophage preventing them from beaming and not the lack of technology in the past.[/QUOTE]
That's one incredibly useful bug, if they could jam ALL Transporters on a ship.

No Wonder they're prized as weapons.

 

[publiusr]

Spock’s Jellyfish tech might have been the latest Romulan tech…red matter and all.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Spock’s Jellyfish tech might have been the latest Romulan tech…red matter and all.

Imagine how devastating a "Black Hole Torpedo" would be.

Equip a Torpedo with (1 Drop of Red Matter) and have it be Phase Cloaked and potentially Time shifted if necessary to avoid shields.

Have it enter the targets core in a area that's open, and merge back with normal space, detonating and eat up the ship from the inside.

The scary power of a Black Hole eating a ship from the inside out =D.

Even "The Borg" wouldn't be able to know what hit them.

 

[B.J.]

They had portable transporter buffer tech for storage back in the 24th century, per the events of Elite Force!

 

[Markonian]

Series finale!
So, what is that Pathway drive?
Is Voyager-J still active at the end of the episode?
We do see the USS Antares (or at least 3 ships of its configuration) outside Fed HQ.
Did we see a single Angelou-class ship this season?
Also also, can we discern what year the final Red Directive takes place in?

 

[Mike McDevitt]

Can we surmise anything about the year based on human or Kweijan lifespans which might be even longer in the distant future? The shuttle 47 seems to be the same design as 3191. Admiral Vance (possibly the same Vance) is said to be active. Can we come up with anything regarding Tilly's "longest" Academy tenure in a world that has Vulcan or potentially even android instructors? I'm not sure I have those answers!

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

- Pathway drive! Powered by handwavium! It's somehow better than warp drive, but there's little evidence of it here! It seems to be able to drop from whatever space it's in back into a regular warp drive, though. As though a pathway drive is a trans... warp... drive.

- No Voyager-J that I can see. Probably for the best as it could have taken away from Discovery's swan song mission, whatever that is.

- We didn't see an Angelou last season either. Whatever their mission, it doesn't involve sitting around Fed HQ pushing up daisies or whatever they're growing in there.

- Captain kwisatz haderach (surely Leto is an in-joke) was played by Sawandi Wilson, who is ~37 years old. He could of course be playing younger (a recent Crusher was in his mid twenties and played by another guy in his mid thirties), but give his captaincy it's probably more towards his real age. So, the coda could be anywhere between 30-40 years into the future of Discovery, IMO.

More brief notes:

- I guess Starfleet didn't come up with any new classes of ship in that time jump, either. As it stands, the ones we saw at the end could be closer to two centuries old, even with internal refits. Perhaps they've peaked with what they can do, pathway drive aside.

- Shuttle 47!

- Daniels served aboard an Enteprise with no "USS", unless he's talking about one he swiped a bottle of wine or spectacles from, before sneaking into someone's office to swipe a baseball.

- Why so many DOTS to remove the "-A"? Why sparks? is future-future paint really, REALLY hard to scrub off? And why do you need to do it before completely restoring the ship's look to factory spec?

Mark

 

[Mike McDevitt]

Thanks to Picard series creators, it may now be that the NX-01 became the USS Enterprise later in life, maybe in 2161 after Daniels served on her, although I thought in the moment that Daniels was talking about his unseen service on the J.