Spoilers Star Trek Discovery - Starships and Technology Season Five Discussion

[evilchumlee]

I doubt that the Romulans used dilithium for their large AQS-driven Warbirds, but maybe they had a bunch of shuttles onboard that don't use AQS but a M/AM-dilithium setup?

They still use dilithium. The AQS generates the power... the dilithium is just part of the warp reaction.

As for the ships exploding vs. imploding, I have to wonder if the singularity could actually dissipate while still under containment prior to the ships destruction, perhaps as something of a failsafe to make sure that destroyed Romulan ships DON'T go around leaving rogue black holes in the event of disaster. The ship has failsafes to, at least try to, snuff out the singularity before the ship is completely lost.

EDIT

I'm envisioning a system that could potentially make Romulan ships moderately more safe than others... their version of a warp core breach would (hopefully) just be the AQS being snuffed out. The ship itself is still fine, they just... no longer have warp capability.

 

[Macintosh]

The black holes can't be that small if the Hirogen stations collapsed into them when the containment system failed, but that's a common misconception about black holes. They don't "suck" any more than a regular object of the same mass.

Sternbach posited that the quantum singularity on a D'deridex Warbird massed only 275,000 tons, which means that it would be about the thousandth the size of a proton, radiate at 400 trillion Kelvin, and last for about three years before evaporate to Hawking radiation. And you wouldn't even notice the gravity from it unless you were basically touching it.

 

[blssdwlf]

They still use dilithium. The AQS generates the power... the dilithium is just part of the warp reaction.

As for the ships exploding vs. imploding, I have to wonder if the singularity could actually dissipate while still under containment prior to the ships destruction, perhaps as something of a failsafe to make sure that destroyed Romulan ships DON'T go around leaving rogue black holes in the event of disaster. The ship has failsafes to, at least try to, snuff out the singularity before the ship is completely lost.

EDIT

I'm envisioning a system that could potentially make Romulan ships moderately more safe than others... their version of a warp core breach would (hopefully) just be the AQS being snuffed out. The ship itself is still fine, they just... no longer have warp capability.

I don't recall any dialogue referencing Romulans using dilithium in their ships but I am inclined to agree that the Romulans in Discovery probably used dilithium as a warp plasma generator as post-TOS productions described dilithium as a M/AM regulators and then later as critical for warp generation.

 

[evilchumlee]

I don't recall any dialogue referencing Romulans using dilithium in their ships but I am inclined to agree that the Romulans in Discovery probably used dilithium as a warp plasma generator as post-TOS productions described dilithium as a M/AM regulators and then later as critical for warp generation.

It's more of a roundabout, fill-in-the-blanks kind of thing.

-Discovery established that Dilthium isn't used for power generation, it's used for the warp reaction.

-Without dilithium, warp travel is severely limited.

-The Vulcans... Ni'vaarans... were actively working on different types of warp, to little success. Ni'vaar is also home to the Romulans, who should have knowledge of the AQS tech.

-Given that we don't see AQS's in general use over the century of the Burn as a workaround, it can be pretty safely assumed that dilithium is still required.

 

[blssdwlf]

It's more of a roundabout, fill-in-the-blanks kind of thing.

-Discovery established that Dilthium isn't used for power generation, it's used for the warp reaction.

-Without dilithium, warp travel is severely limited.

-The Vulcans... Ni'vaarans... were actively working on different types of warp, to little success. Ni'vaar is also home to the Romulans, who should have knowledge of the AQS tech.

-Given that we don't see AQS's in general use over the century of the Burn as a workaround, it can be pretty safely assumed that dilithium is still required.

I agree Discovery established that dilithium is critical for warp travel although it is also possible that the Romulans lost their AQS tech when their homeworld was destroyed by the supernova and their civilization was scattered as refugees. We just don't know why AQS isn't used in general in Discovery.

 

[evilchumlee]

I agree Discovery established that dilithium is critical for warp travel although it is also possible that the Romulans lost their AQS tech when their homeworld was destroyed by the supernova and their civilization was scattered as refugees. We just don't know why AQS isn't used in general in Discovery.

True we don't have a hard piece of dialogue stating exactly such, but in context it's a rational answer.

"Universal law is for lackeys, context is for kings." - Lorca

 

[Ronald Held]

I do not see how Dilithium is required for warp drives. It might make M/AM reactions more efficient. The magic happens when plasma energizes the warp coils.

 

[blssdwlf]

I do not see how Dilithium is required for warp drives. It might make M/AM reactions more efficient. The magic happens when plasma energizes the warp coils.

At some point in later productions dilithium was made into a critical piece in creating the warp plasma that can energize warp coils.

It goes back to the discussion about "First Contact" whether Cochrane had to have a matter-antimatter warp engine (because of the type of radiation present) but vague on whether he used dilithium or not. Discovery's writers pretty much would imply that Cochrane needed dilithium to achieve warp and in the same argument, the Romulans must have also.

 

[Tuskin38]

if Rick Sternbach of all people says Romulan singularity cores need Dilithium for some reason, then I'm willing to put that into my head canon.

 

[Macintosh]

I do not see how Dilithium is required for warp drives. It might make M/AM reactions more efficient. The magic happens when plasma energizes the warp coils.

The TNG Technical Manual says that it moderates the reaction by being porous to antimatter and creating a "reaction surface" for the annihilation to occur on, which allows it to be focused into a plasma stream that can then be sent to the nacelles. While dilithium clearly tunes and optimises the reaction, it's not essential for the reaction to actually occur, and the actual magic happens in the nacelles – the warp core just kicks out high energy plasma. We should be getting excited about verterium cortenide, not dilithium.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

If Romulans did not use dilithium for their engines, why would they be mining Remus for this element? (Star Trek: Nemesis)
If Romulans did not use dilithiuim for their engines, why would they want schematic drawings of a Galaxy-class dilithium chamber? ("The Drumhead")

 

[Tosk]

If Romulans did not use dilithium for their engines, why would they be mining Remus for this element? (Star Trek: Nemesis)

To sell.

If Romulans did not use dilithiuim for their engines, why would they want schematic drawings of a Galaxy-class dilithium chamber? ("The Drumhead")

For knowledge of the capabilities and limitations of a foreign power.

I'm not saying that the Romulans don't use dilithium, just answering hypothetically.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

thank you.

 

[Macintosh]

If Romulans did not use dilithium for their engines, why would they be mining Remus for this element? (Star Trek: Nemesis)

To sell.

Further to this point – It's only confirmed that the largest Romulan ships, the Warbirds of various types, use quantum singularities for their engines. Precisely why they do this is open to conjecture – we might hypothesise efficiency, or endurance, or flexibility, or redundancy, or something to do with cloaking, or just because the Romulans want to be different and they can build big ships that work differently so why not. But what about their smaller ships, like the various scout and science ships we see? While it's implied that the science ship we see in TNG: "The Next Phase" has a quantum singularity – we're told the engine will implode rather than explode if containment is lost – it's not outright confirmed. And what about Vreenak's Romulan-equivalent of a runabout that we see in DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight"? It's possible that for their smaller or older ships Romulans still use matter-antimatter and dilithium.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

5x08

- The archive is portrayed by the real-life Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library. Not all that much disguised either, and the VFX really just extends the existing architecture. They cover up the concrete pretty well, actually.

- I know some people just like physical paper books, but Burnham doesn’t flinch when she plies through volumes on the Dominion War. A single copy of a Betazoid book is one thing perhaps, but actual historical books on a 24th century conflict? Is future paper just a good way to avoid loss of data by EM fields and whatnot?

- The Breen see no problem with holding a state funeral on their massive bridge. But that’s okay, as the Voyager gang did it once in “One Small Step”.

- About that bridge, aside from the whole interior looking repusposed from “Tron Legacy”, is it logical at all to put your bridge nestled in the middle of your ship, but place in the middle of a cavernous space that is also your shuttlebay, cargo space, and army assembly areas?

- The Breen poking / bludgeoning sticks are just as capable of shooting as their actual rifles.

-The Breen follow Discovery on the trail of a “Federation jump signature”. There are others..?

- As Burnham tries to map her way out, her tricom creates a Pac-Man-inspired trail for her to follow. But how does this work in a mind scape? Does the tech fill in a tricom’s expected functionality?

-As it stands, she dumps out like half of her sand bucket before she leaves the frame of her first shot carrying it, so it’s being magically replenished somehow. And if she’s using it to mark a trail in the first place, why use the tricom?

Mark

 

[KamenRiderBlade]

- I know some people just like physical paper books, but Burnham doesn’t flinch when she plies through volumes on the Dominion War. A single copy of a Betazoid book is one thing perhaps, but actual historical books on a 24th century conflict? Is future paper just a good way to avoid loss of data by EM fields and whatnot?

Hard Copies of data are great for preservation of knowledge, even in the future =D

 

[137th Gebirg]

Paper never fails.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Anything that is perishable fails. As an example, we have lost almost all of the ancient Greek and Roman literature. We have something like 1% of it. What is better now than then is how we store and distribute literature. More of our literature will survive as we have more copies of works and these works can be found in many different locations, not just a few.

 

[137th Gebirg]

As long as the paper is maintained in a humidity-free space and protected from any kind of extensive inundation or conflagration, it can last a very long time. Up the tech to a hermetically sealed and environmentally controlled environment (which I'm sure this Archive is all of these things), it can last indefinitely.

Just ask the Gnostics with their Dead Sea Scrolls. Oh, wait... you can't. They're all dead. But a large quantity of their writings still exist to this day.

The next real step up in indestructible non-perishable media, coupled with mass-quantity data storage, are data crystals. I cannot wait for that shit to become commercially available. But not even that is worth anything if the lights go out.

 

[Macintosh]

Just ask the Gnostics with their Dead Sea Scrolls. Oh, wait... you can't. They're all dead. But a large quantity of their writings still exist to this day.

Technically they were papyrus or parchment rather than paper, and were sensibly stored in jars that were kept in caves – which really is the closest thing to a climate controlled vault anyone had at the time, or for centuries after. Parchment, particularly vellum, can easily last for centuries with only moderate care.