Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x08 - "Labyrinths"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I absolutely adore this character.
Discovery not being an ensemble show like every other Trek/major sci-fi show really hurt it.
A formulaic mindscape episode, reminiscent of DS9's and Voyager's customary "the station/ship represents the hero's mind" stories, and especially of DS9's Extreme Measures and its ticking clock threatening to take the user with it. I guess the way my recaps are getting shorter is indicative of how I'm losing confidence with this season myself, with this being the second episode in a row where I definitely had to stand up feeling like something's missing. I can't really describe it, it's just this vague feeling of creeping disinterest. Even Burnham's epiphany where she once again demonstrated how similar our mindsets, anxieties, weaknesses and worries are didn't bring me the same cathartic feeling of having seen a show that "gets me" it did back in previous seasons because we've seen similar epiphanies from her a few times already, whether coming from herself at her mother's prodding (Season 3's Unification III) or from Spock telling her like it is (Season 2's Project Daedalus). Albeit to be fair, coming to the same realization over and over and it somehow never sticking is also something her and I have in common, so go figure.
The Archive itself was an interesting concept I always love whenever they show up in speculative fiction, whether magical or technological, albeit I would've preferred it to look a bit more alien, with a larger variety in prop books and other forms of recording data; it's not the first time Discovery did the barest minimum to disguise a real-life location (this time, the Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library of the University of Toronto) as an alien setting, if one remembers how out of place the gothic revival architecture of the same university looked on Boreth back in Season 2.
Archivist Hy'Rell was a delight with her almost single-minded focus on her duty and a picture-perfect customer service smile, especially when treating open aggression from the Breen as basically a breach of the terms of service, albeit the episode didn't serve her well with reducing her to the Discovery crew relaying her offscreen casualty reports when they started attacking. Speaking of the Breen, Ruhn somehow managed to turn himself into a caricature of himself immediately after his first in-person appearance; while he was already shown to be driven by a hunger for power and personal glory above all else last week, he rapidly devolved into a textbook Stupid Evil villain who did evil stuff just for the sake of being evil, going back on his own promises and even sworn oaths at every turn with almost comical ease, seemingly solely to explain why it would be so easy for Moll to convince his honor-and-duty-obsessed crew to turn on him, all the while they don't even notice she's also playing them and using them for her own personal ambition.
With Moll, of course, the course is practically set for the remainder of the season; she is securing the Breen's loyalty in her quest to bring L'ak back by appealing to his position as the Scion, which is exactly what he tried to get away from his entire life. I can practically see him coming back to life, only to be absolutely horrified and disgusted at the atrocities Moll has got the Breen to commit in his name while he was dead.
The Archive itself was an interesting concept I always love whenever they show up in speculative fiction, whether magical or technological, albeit I would've preferred it to look a bit more alien, with a larger variety in prop books and other forms of recording data; it's not the first time Discovery did the barest minimum to disguise a real-life location (this time, the Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library of the University of Toronto) as an alien setting, if one remembers how out of place the gothic revival architecture of the same university looked on Boreth back in Season 2.
Archivist Hy'Rell was a delight with her almost single-minded focus on her duty and a picture-perfect customer service smile, especially when treating open aggression from the Breen as basically a breach of the terms of service, albeit the episode didn't serve her well with reducing her to the Discovery crew relaying her offscreen casualty reports when they started attacking. Speaking of the Breen, Ruhn somehow managed to turn himself into a caricature of himself immediately after his first in-person appearance; while he was already shown to be driven by a hunger for power and personal glory above all else last week, he rapidly devolved into a textbook Stupid Evil villain who did evil stuff just for the sake of being evil, going back on his own promises and even sworn oaths at every turn with almost comical ease, seemingly solely to explain why it would be so easy for Moll to convince his honor-and-duty-obsessed crew to turn on him, all the while they don't even notice she's also playing them and using them for her own personal ambition.
With Moll, of course, the course is practically set for the remainder of the season; she is securing the Breen's loyalty in her quest to bring L'ak back by appealing to his position as the Scion, which is exactly what he tried to get away from his entire life. I can practically see him coming back to life, only to be absolutely horrified and disgusted at the atrocities Moll has got the Breen to commit in his name while he was dead.
This reminds me of Babylon 5's Deathwalker, the one where a war criminal created a serum that would give anyone immortality without revealing that every single dose would require cannibalizing another person, and the mere hypothetical existence of the serum threatens interstellar war until the local sufficiently advanced aliens appear out of nowhere and destroy the war criminal's ship as soon as she departs the station, call everyone to tell them they aren't ready for immortality, then leave just as suddenly as they came.
It could've just as well been the Briar Patch from Insurrection, for example. It even has a secluded oasis in the middle of the turbulence by default.
All Michael had to do was introspect really hard.
Nobody... NOBODY was smart enough to CLIMB THE FUCKING SHELVES. Starfleet's finest. FFS.
Loved the end bit where Moll took over the Breen. It's aspirational how in Star Trek, anyone can take over an alien space empire.
Nobody... NOBODY was smart enough to CLIMB THE FUCKING SHELVES. Starfleet's finest. FFS.
Loved the end bit where Moll took over the Breen. It's aspirational how in Star Trek, anyone can take over an alien space empire.
Discovery has always been centered around Michael Burnham, a mutineer who followed her conscience who kept getting drawn into the center of galaxy spinning events around her. Her ability to spin in time to those events kept her from getting ejected into the void beyond. There is a lot of happenstance which appears laughable on the surface of things where she is situated front and center. One might almost think she's a Q who's taken on human form to gain a particular insight on homo sapiens given the extraordinary situations she takes responsibility for.
It is rewarding to see other characters weave in and out of stories, and I unapologetically love the original debriefing provided by Vance's team after the crew arrived for the first time to headquarters. I am sorry we don't see more of their stories, but that only proves their writers and performers have done their job in crafting fascinating people to care about.
It is rewarding to see other characters weave in and out of stories, and I unapologetically love the original debriefing provided by Vance's team after the crew arrived for the first time to headquarters. I am sorry we don't see more of their stories, but that only proves their writers and performers have done their job in crafting fascinating people to care about.
"Perfectly balanced" is a good description for this episode.
https://trekmovie.com/2024/05/16/re...BnP9jHHk9FCz-WxPNESu0axJpFWRChdnuKCfRo3pk46Io
https://trekmovie.com/2024/05/16/re...BnP9jHHk9FCz-WxPNESu0axJpFWRChdnuKCfRo3pk46Io
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That's very true. I have enjoyed seeing the characters, especially Detmer, Rhys and Bryce, since Season 1 but I never labored under the idea that there had to be more, or that Discovery was lesser for not being an ensemble piece. It didn't set out to be an ensemble piece.
That the characters draw me in makes me glad to see them when they arrive, appreciate of the brief time I get with them. A reflection of life, no doubt.
The other shows tended to focus on 2 or 3 main actors in the cast. The others to a lesser degree. Discovery is an ensemble show, but it does tell the story and growth of Micheal Burnham as a focus. Her voiceovers are a POV...like narrating a book.
The Breen in DS9 never had any good personality traits. None of their aims had any depth.
All Michael had to do was introspect really hard.
Nobody... NOBODY was smart enough to CLIMB THE FUCKING SHELVES. Starfleet's finest. FFS.
Loved the end bit where Moll took over the Breen. It's aspirational how in Star Trek, anyone can take over an alien space empire.
But is that what happened? Clearly the Breen soldiers thought more highly of the old Emperor and Scion than the Primarch. I'm not sure being married to the Emperor means she's the Empress, but they certainly agreed with her ideas. Whether she leads them is not decided yet.
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Some more thoughts came to mind about this episode for me, and Season 5 overall so far, I guess:
-Season 5 started off with a bang, but it's lost its way. I still think it's better than the fourth season and the second half of the third, but I feel this story has become less interesting, the episodes less satisfying. I do think the pacing is a lot better than the fourth season, and I'm optimistic that the series finale will not be a groaner like the third season's finale.
-With this big twist of Moll becoming the de facto head of a Breen clan, I wish they had done a better job setting up L'ak and their relationship. In retrospect, that marathon race episode feels even more of a waste, because they could've given L'ak and Moll that whole episode (and perhaps also used it to flesh out the Breen more and do some world building outside of the Federation). It came across to me that L'ak was a screw up and it also seemed none of the Breen who are worshipping him now didn't care about him being punished by his uncle or even that there was a bounty on him. It's hard for me to accept now that they think he's so important that he must be resurrected. Even if Moll killed the Primarch, why not have the Breen in the clan fight amongst themselves?
-I'm guessing Moll taking over was supposed to be shocking, but I think it would've been more shocking, and subverted expectations to have the Primarch kill Moll this episode, so he could've fully owned his villainy and the last two episodes could've been a great fight against a very evil person.
-I don't get the focus of the Progenitors seeking one worthy person to wield their power. It's not like this person can't be killed or corrupted, and in the case of Burnham, Starfleet would get the Progenitor technology, and who's to say that everyone in Starfleet or the Federation can be trusted? We've seen a lot of movies and episodes that proves that's not the case.
-I love Book and Burnham together, but I felt he was shoehorned into this episode. They didn't need Book to also go to the library and use him as Burnham's guide. Her confessional might have been even more powerful if she had told him to stay aboard the ship so it can hammer home how she has been pushing him away.
-Where the heck are Owosekun and Detmer? It's nice seeing different characters, but with Owo and Detmer still having little development, I would've liked for them to get more especially with this being the final season.
-I'm guessing Moll taking over was supposed to be shocking, but I think it would've been more shocking, and subverted expectations to have the Primarch kill Moll this episode, so he could've fully owned his villainy and the last two episodes could've been a great fight against a very evil person.
-I don't get the focus of the Progenitors seeking one worthy person to wield their power. It's not like this person can't be killed or corrupted, and in the case of Burnham, Starfleet would get the Progenitor technology, and who's to say that everyone in Starfleet or the Federation can be trusted? We've seen a lot of movies and episodes that proves that's not the case.
-I love Book and Burnham together, but I felt he was shoehorned into this episode. They didn't need Book to also go to the library and use him as Burnham's guide. Her confessional might have been even more powerful if she had told him to stay aboard the ship so it can hammer home how she has been pushing him away.
-Where the heck are Owosekun and Detmer? It's nice seeing different characters, but with Owo and Detmer still having little development, I would've liked for them to get more especially with this being the final season.
-Season 5 started off with a bang, but it's lost its way. I still think it's better than the fourth season and the second half of the third, but I feel this story has become less interesting, the episodes less satisfying. I do think the pacing is a lot better than the fourth season, and I'm optimistic that the series finale will not be a groaner like the third season's finale.
The Progenitor's are not fixated on choosing someone, it was the researchers and scientists. Each made a personal stamp on what the tests would be. They didn't need to do these things, they did them because they realized they had to do a good job because of the power of what they were finding.
If anything, these tests and trials ground the season and personalize it for me, adding more focus...far from losing its way it feels more genuine.
I still think they might use the power but I don't know anyone worthy of really keeping it. This crew with all they've been through might be the most worthy out there but, still way too much temptation.
If anything, these tests and trials ground the season and personalize it for me, adding more focus...far from losing its way it feels more genuine.
I still think they might use the power but I don't know anyone worthy of really keeping it. This crew with all they've been through might be the most worthy out there but, still way too much temptation.
She reminds me of the salesman in Arsenal of Freedom, except she's purveying an experience...knowledge. So perky about it too. The Efrosians always seemed so surly!
Okay. This episode was...okay.
Unsurprisingly, it was written by the same person who wrote my least favorite ep from this season, Jinaal.
There wasn't much I liked. I have never enjoyed Mindscape episodes. Didn't like this one much either. It was predictable and cliché.
Here's the thing" I'll be okay with predictable if the story itself is enjoyable. If the characters are rich enough. If the world is unique enough.
Instead, fir instance, they took a previously interesting character (Moll) and made her dull.
They name-dropped the Badlands and did nothing with it (This is similar to what they did with Trill in Jinaal and the Tzenkethi in Mirrors).
My wife asked me how they keep coming up with interesting concepts and making them dull. I don't know, but having the firefight with the Breen take place off-camera contributed.
They never, by the way, explained how the Breen can track Discovery so easily. It took them, what, an hour to warp from Breen space to the Library? And now only 6 hours to the actual Progenitor tech?
These are, again, all things I would be willing to overlook if the story was stronger, but it's wearing really thin really quick.
Season 1, 2 and 3 did the season-long arcs far better than 4 and 5.
I'm still annoyed that they gave Saru the boot. Rayner isn't even close to an adequate replacement. He got a lot of comparisons to Shaw early on, but I've yet to see any real depth.
You wanna know why Shaw is a superior character to Rayner? Watch their tragic backstory speeches back to back. It's like night and day. And I blame the writing for that. This writer's room has a real talent for wiping out any drama inherent in a scene to make it as unexciting as possible.
Unsurprisingly, it was written by the same person who wrote my least favorite ep from this season, Jinaal.
There wasn't much I liked. I have never enjoyed Mindscape episodes. Didn't like this one much either. It was predictable and cliché.
Here's the thing" I'll be okay with predictable if the story itself is enjoyable. If the characters are rich enough. If the world is unique enough.
Instead, fir instance, they took a previously interesting character (Moll) and made her dull.
They name-dropped the Badlands and did nothing with it (This is similar to what they did with Trill in Jinaal and the Tzenkethi in Mirrors).
My wife asked me how they keep coming up with interesting concepts and making them dull. I don't know, but having the firefight with the Breen take place off-camera contributed.
They never, by the way, explained how the Breen can track Discovery so easily. It took them, what, an hour to warp from Breen space to the Library? And now only 6 hours to the actual Progenitor tech?
These are, again, all things I would be willing to overlook if the story was stronger, but it's wearing really thin really quick.
Season 1, 2 and 3 did the season-long arcs far better than 4 and 5.
I'm still annoyed that they gave Saru the boot. Rayner isn't even close to an adequate replacement. He got a lot of comparisons to Shaw early on, but I've yet to see any real depth.
You wanna know why Shaw is a superior character to Rayner? Watch their tragic backstory speeches back to back. It's like night and day. And I blame the writing for that. This writer's room has a real talent for wiping out any drama inherent in a scene to make it as unexciting as possible.
Shaw is a terrible character played by a good actor.
Rayner is a good character played by a good actor.
He had his mind messed with by an alien probe.
Okay, and how does that negate Starfleet Academy's psychological testing?
Given the limited number of episodes per season, I'd say Michael is a strong enough character to be the center of every story.
But the problem is that Sonequa Martin-Green isn't a good enough actress to carry the character to that point.
Which isn't surprising, she was hired when the idea was an anthology series where we would be following a different character every season. And she did the character she was hired to play in Season 1 well enough that it worked. But hold her up to the likes of Patrick Stewart, Avery Brooks, Kate Mulgrew, or Scott Bakula as they were when they began their respective series. And there's a very obvious difference in acting ability.
Enjoying Discovery as TNG still as well, right down to the nucleonic beam.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Nucleonic_beam
Not a whole life, but facing oneself is still pretty powerful.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Nucleonic_beam
Not a whole life, but facing oneself is still pretty powerful.
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