Old Episodes in a new light through "Star Trek: Picard"

[Lord Garth]

I've mentioned before that I've been finishing what I started with my TNG Rewatch from five years ago, by working my way through all of VOY. After that, and after a break, I'll move on to DS9. This thread is just to point out things that jumped out to me (or anyone else) knowing what we know now thanks to Picard.

I'm in the middle of watching "Imperfection" (VOY S7 E2).

Icheb wants to apply to Starfleet Academy. He says that Seven should apply as well. To which, Seven replies that she's assimilated more than enough Starfleet knowledge to not have to go through the Academy. This pans out later on in Picard when she finally earns a field commission to Commander because of her equivalent experience as a Borg, her assimilated knowledge, her experience on Voyager, and her time with the Fenris Rangers.

Another thing is with Icheb himself. I stopped watching VOY in 1999, but finished the rest of the series in 2008. By the time I was watching Picard in 2020, it had been 12 years since I'd gone through all of VOY. So what happened to Icheb didn't particularly phase me, other than how gruesome his death was. Now, watching the sixth and seventh seasons of VOY after the fact, it makes me feel really bad for him knowing what's ahead. Definitely motivation for Seven want to turn to the Fenris Rangers and makes "Stardust City Rag" hit even harder than it already did.

 

[The Wormhole]

Watching the scene with Picard's mother in S1 of TNG is more chilling after having seen S2 of Picard.

 

[drt]

Watching the scene with Picard's mother in S1 of TNG is more chilling after having seen S2 of Picard.

Similar for the few mentions of Picard's father that I can recall from TNG.

 

[Lord Garth]

It's a movie, not an episode, but I just re-watched First Contact, and some Picard-like things that jumped out at me:

Picard has the 10-Forward Bar on Earth. The place where Zephram Cochrane's playing "Oobie Dooby" (I know I misspelled that) is kind of like a bar and Troi even gets drunk!

Having rock music in First Contact isn't much different from having rock music in Picard. "But the rock music in FC is in the past!" Even in Zephram Cochrane's time, that music is 100 years old. That's his great-grandparents' music. Do you listen to your great-grandparents' music? I don't know about you, but ragtime's not really my thing. So, my observation stands. It's highly improbable, but if you can suspend your disbelief in FC, you can suspend your disbelief in PIC.

The Borg Queen starts giving Data flesh-and-blood. In Picard Season 3, Data's finally flesh-and-blood.

Picard's still feeling the loss of the Enterprise-D and it comes out when Worf tells him they need to destroy the E-E, and then Lily pushes him to the breaking point. Literally. "You broke your little ships." Feels a little bit different now, knowing the Enterprise-D will eventually return.

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Then there's Generations. Riker says, "I always thought I'd get a shot at that chair one day." Picard says, "Perhaps you still will. Somehow I doubt this will be the last ship to carry the name Enterprise." Then I wanted to say, "Nope, you never get to command the Enterprise. You just get to command a ship... before it's renamed to the Enterprise!"

 

[Jayson1]

Wesley leaving to explore different planes of existence plays different now since it seems he never came back to even visit his mom or old friends except in a comic book I just read the other day.

 

[Lord Garth]

At the end of Nemesis, when the crew are gathering to remember Data, they have Chateau Picard. That immediately makes me think of Star Trek: Picard now.

 

[Lord Garth]

This forum's kind of dead. So, I don't feel like starting a new thread. Instead, I'll put my observations here, since PIC Season 3 places the TNG Movies as a whole in a new light. I rewatched all the TNG Movies before going into PIC Season 3 to see how they retroactively work with PIC S3 serving as the second half of that film series.

Generations opens on the Enterprise-B with a retired Kirk, along with Chekov and Scotty. Kirk is introduced to Demora Sulu, helmsman. PIC Season 3's first episode takes us to what will eventually become the Enterprise-G with a retired Picard, along with Riker. Picard is introduced to Sydney LaForge, helmsman. So, Picard eventually ends up where Kirk was at the beginning of the first TNG Movie.

In Generations, Picard finds out that his brother and nephew were burned to death in a fire. He thinks there will be no more Picards. He begins to regret not having a family of his own, and it becomes a fantasy of his in the Nexus. In PIC Season 3, Picard finds out that he has a son. He has a family now, and he's not the last of his bloodline.

The Enterprise-D is destroyed in Generations. If PIC S3 is the last "TNG Movie", then the TNG Movies were bookended with the Enterprise-D being restored. Geordi's VISOR was used to destroy the D, then Geordi spent 20 years restoring it.

Generations takes Data's quest to become more Human to the next level by giving him emotions. Even though they drop this in later TNG Movies, the point stands. In First Contact, he's given patches of flesh and blood. In Picard Season 3, despite being an android, he now actually appears as fully flesh-and-blood. Brent Spiner didn't want to be an ageless android, so now Data is an android, but he's not ageless. He gets to experience being old.

Other than having the Borg Queen, and what I already mentioned upthread, I don't see any other connection First Contact has with Picard Season 3.

Aside from Riker and Troi rekindling their romance, I don't see anything from Insurrection in Picard Season 3 either. Maybe Picard searching for love, which eventually brings him to Beverly Crusher off-screen.

Then there's Nemesis. It focuses on Romulans (and Remans) but the season of Picard that focused on Romulans was Season 1. Data's backup into B-4 becomes part of the M5-10 Data Lore B-4 Alton Soong hybrid that eventually becomes Data but, other than that, no real connection to Picard Season 3. Aside from Riker and Troi getting married. Though, I will say that Picard as a whole (not just Season 3) takes the sting out of Nemesis. Before Picard, Nemesis was a dour way to end the TNG Era. Now it's just a massive speed bump, until PIC.

So, if Picard Season 3 is the last "TNG Movie", I would say that it's mainly its own adventure (just like all the other TNG Movies) but also serves mostly as a response, bookend, and parallel to Generations.

Speaking of ways that PIC S3 is similar to the TNG Movies: the way it introduces us to the Dominion. The easiest way to do that is to show us a Changeling. "It's a shape-shifter!" No more need to go into further detail than that with someone who might not be familiar with DS9. Just like in an actual TNG Movie. The TNG Movies always mentioned an enemy in a previous movie before we got to see them. The Romulans were mentioned in Generations, First Contact, and Insurrection before they came into focus in Nemesis. The Borg were mentioned in Generations before we got see them in First Contact. The Dominion were mentioned in Insurrection and Nemesis before we finally got to see a Changeling in Picard Season 3.

If you watch the TNG Movies with Picard Season 3, then you get to see Janeway in Nemesis, before she's mentioned a few times in Picard Season 3. She was mentioned enough that it felt like we actually should've seen her.

All I've got in terms of seeing the TNG Movies in a new light because of Picard. Back to episodes, whenever something from there occurs to me.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Unless I'm mistaken, the idea of shape-shifters being in the Star Trek universe, was first explored through the character of Martia in The Undiscovered Country. According to Memory Alpha, that film's events take place in the year 2290, about 111 years before Season 3 of Picard in 2401.

 

[Lord Garth]

Unless I'm mistaken, the idea of shape-shifters being in the Star Trek universe, was first explored through the character of Martia in The Undiscovered Country. According to Memory Alpha, that film's events take place in the year 2290, about 111 years before Season 3 of Picard in 2401.

This is correct, but we have no idea if Martia was part of the Dominion. I'm referring to the Dominion actually being seen within the TNG Movies themselves, if I count PIC S3 as a "TNG Movie".

Deeper Cut, if you want to go even further back: the people of Antos IV from "Whom Gods Destroy" (TOS) were shape-shifters.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Star Trek: The Man Trap would like a word with you. XD

 

[FederationHistorian]

In FC, its Picard – an Xb - that save the day in a major battle over Earth involving the Borg. In PIC S3, its Seven – an Xb –that saves the day in a major battle over Earth involving the Borg.

In GEN, Worf - recently promoted to lieutenant commander - only has issues with the Duras family. He remains on good terms with Gowron, and does not yet know Martok, and far from a command of his own. In PIC S3 , Worf has a more storied journey beyond his conflict with the Duras family in TNG, with his additional titles with Slayer of Gowron and House of Martok, along with being a former captain of the Enterprise-E. And is now the teacher instead of the student, as seen with his relationship with Raffi.

In GEN, Riker loses the Enterprise. In FC, he is a co-pilot in the Phoenix launch. In INS, Riker – resembling his S1 self - takes command of the Ent-E, and by NEM – back to S7 self - is posted to command the Titan. In PIC S3 – he returns to the Titan and takes command. Essentially a fall and rebirth of Riker in regards to his journey surrounding command. A phoenix rising form the ashes, if you will.

In AGT, Troi was about to kiss Worf when interrupted by Picard. In GEN, Troi’s relationship with Worf was in a grey area, and Worf later transfers to DS9. But in FC, she goes on an away mission with Riker, and the romance between the two is rekindled in INS, they are married in NEM and have a family - though with tragic circumstances involved - by PIC. And the Worf/Troi romance is called back to in PIC S3.

Wesley leaves to join the Traveler in "Journey’s End". At the end of PIC S2, Wesley returns only to help Kore. And in S3 Beverly acknowledges that she lost Wesley to the stars, meaning they have not reconnected at all since TNG ended (unless you count the deleted scene from NEM)

Also from "Journey's End", Picard follows orders to relocate the Federation colonists in disputed territory, but the colonists stay, choosing to live under Cardassian rule. In INS, Picard fights to protect the Baku from relocation efforts by the Federation. In PIC S1, we learn that Picard fought to evacuate the Romulans during the supernova crisis and failed, with the Federation abandoning their efforts and Picard facing resentment from Romulan refugees over a decade later.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Do you listen to your great-grandparents' music? I don't know about you, but ragtime's not really my thing.

Uh, most of the music I listen to was old when my great-grandparents were in diapers. And yes, I do bloody well like ragtime, and I don't care who knows it.

Classical music isn't good because it's old; it's still played, listened-to, and enjoyed, in spite of being old, because it's good. The stuff that wasn't good (and a fair amount that was) is forgotten, and much of it deservedly so.

Personally, I've never understood why anybody, when offered chamber music, would rather listen to chamber-pot music.

Unless I'm mistaken, the idea of shape-shifters being in the Star Trek universe, was first explored through the character of Martia in The Undiscovered Country.

Star Trek: The Man Trap would like a word with you. XD

. . . and Boimler still has nightmares about salt vampires.
And we mustn't forget the people of Daled IV. And the Vendorians.

Be that as it may, there is a lot in Picard that adds new layers to episodes from years, even decades ago. And indeed, much of Season 3 is a re-evaluation of some of the things that were done in the Dominion War.

 

[fireproof78]

Personally, I've never understood why anybody, when offered chamber music, would rather listen to chamber-pot music.

Because there is value in all kinds of music. I listen to Gregorian chants, Handel, classical, classic rock, Mongolian music, and contemporary.

I can find a lot to enjoy. Ragtime included.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

The late great Karl Haas, of Adventures in Good Music fame, was fond of explaining the origin of the title of that long-running syndicated radio series. Initially, he wanted to call it "Adventures in Music"; the folks at WCLV wanted to call it "Adventures in Classical Music." They compromised on "Adventures in Good Music," because of his assertion that there really are only two kinds of music, "good" and "bad," and that both can occur in any genre, and that there's very little in any genre that can objectively be called bad.

Peter Schicklele (of PDQ Bach fame), in his own syndicated radio series, Schickele Mix, asserted at the beginning of each episode, asserted that there are no bad musics (i.e., no genre is inherently bad).

 

[fireproof78]

only two kinds of music, "good" and "bad," and that both can occur in any genre, and that there's very little in any genre that can objectively be called bad.

Oh, OK.

I thought it was just music.

 

[Lord Garth]

Uh, most of the music I listen to was old when my great-grandparents were in diapers. And yes, I do bloody well like ragtime, and I don't care who knows it.

Classical music isn't good because it's old; it's still played, listened-to, and enjoyed, in spite of being old, because it's good. The stuff that wasn't good (and a fair amount that was) is forgotten, and much of it deservedly so.

Personally, I've never understood why anybody, when offered chamber music, would rather listen to chamber-pot music.

That's not where I was going with this. Never once did I say that I thought Classical Music was bad. I like Classical Music, though I personally prefer Baroque.

And Classical Music is NOT Ragtime Music.

Classic Rock isn't Classical either. Classic Rock is the music my Baby Boomer father, and Baby Boomers in general, made me sick of... or at least sick of the songs that have had constant airplay. To pivot back to where I was originally going with this. I'm suspending my disbelief whenever someone far into the future is listening to it. And people who are complaining that said music is in Picard should suspend their disbelief as well. Just like they did with First Contact.

Of course there's always going to be that ONE person who says, "But I listen to it!" No kidding. But I'm talking about people in general. John Q Public. Normally, they only listen to music from their lifetime. Go into any store and music you'll hear is from the '80s or later. Because the median age is 40-something. Sometimes they'll dip into the '60s and '70s but that's it, and it's becoming less and less frequent. Then there's the Holiday Season, where that all suddenly goes out the window, and it might as well be the '40s and '50s again, but I'm talking about outside of the holidays.

Though Zephram Cochrane, being the guy who invented warp drive, being the eccentric he is, inherently wouldn't be the Average Joe. So, he could be into music that will be more of a niche interest by then.

 

[Lord Garth]

I was watching "Human Error" (VOY) last night. It uses "Unimatrix Zero" has a jumping-off point and has Seven trying to explore more of the type of Humanity she experienced when she was in Unimatrix Zero. She starts off with this loose ponytail, before switching to a hairstyle closer to the one she has in Picard. In the holodeck fantasy, she also says that she wants to join Starfleet. So, we see her in a uniform (albeit blue) and her almost PIC hairstyle. That was interesting.

Seven/Chakotay is still cringe. Even on the holodeck. That's still too weird.

 

[drt]

Star Trek: The Man Trap would like a word with you. XD

The salt vampire wasn't a shape-shifter, it had a telepathic disguise, remember that when they first beamed down the landing party members each saw Nancy differently.

 

[fireproof78]

The salt vampire wasn't a shape-shifter, it had a telepathic disguise, remember that when they first beamed down the landing party members each saw Nancy differently.

But the Great Garth learned to alter his shape.

 

[Lord Garth]

Something else. In the holodeck fantasy in "Human Error", Seven doesn't have to regenerate. I wondered about this a few years ago and mentioned in the forum: Does Seven still regenerate in Picard?

I'm guessing that other than having Seven as First Officer, Shaw was as Anti-Borg as could be, so I think there was no regeneration chamber on the Titan. And I don't think there were any regeneration chambers in any of the Fenris Rangers ships Seven was on, so I'm guessing that Seven of Nine's condition was modified sometime between "Endgame" and when she joined the Fenris Rangers so that she wouldn't have to regenerate anymore.