What is happening with Star Trek literature?

[Charles Phipps]

It seems like you're just really ticked off about Garak's fate in Second Son, to be honest.

Which is fine but I don't think it's a constant need and a lot of the "retirements" in the book world are due to aging actors and the sliding timescale.

But yes, a lot of us DO like the new series. So that may be why you're not getting the positive response you may think is warranted.

But you don't have to get a streaming service for Strange New Worlds. It's on Amazon and available at your local store. I got mine at Walmart. Season 2 is available as well.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Strange-Worlds-Season/dp/B0BBXZ37W3

 

[Charles Phipps]

Re: Garak

Spoiler

I don't actually see how bad it is done as Garak proceeds to spend a relatively peaceful life among Bajorans, returning to his exile, and making atonement for what he did as part of the Obsidian Order. He doesn't get killed off, he dies after decades of living among a community that loves him, and accepts his exile that he once viewed as a punishment.

It's not a terrible ending and emphasizes his willingness to do whatever it takes to protect Cardassia.

 

[Lynx]

It seems like you're just really ticked off about Garak's fate in Second Son, to be honest.

Which is fine but I don't think it's a constant need and a lot of the "retirements" in the book world are due to aging actors and the sliding timescale.

But yes, a lot of us DO like the new series. So that may be why you're not getting the positive response you may think is warranted.

But you don't have to get a streaming service for Strange New Worlds. It's on Amazon and available at your local store. I got mine at Walmart. Season 2 is available as well.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Strange-Worlds-Season/dp/B0BBXZ37W3

Yes, I'm very disappointed with what happened to Garak.

I'm not out to get popularity points when it comes to those new series. I just tell my opinion about them and the current development of Star Trek. If people like those new series, it's OK for me.

What annoys me is that there are so little for me as a fan of the 24th century and the little which can be found is going in an opposite direction to what I want.

Add to this the ongoing trend of doom-and-gloom in each and every series. There is nothing to watch anymore. The only series I watch occasionally is NCIS, not because it's good anymore but because it still has some good storytelling.

As for SNW, I might take a look at it but it doesn't have absolute priority for me right now.

Re: Garak

Spoiler

I don't actually see how bad it is done as Garak proceeds to spend a relatively peaceful life among Bajorans, returning to his exile, and making atonement for what he did as part of the Obsidian Order. He doesn't get killed off, he dies after decades of living among a community that loves him, and accepts his exile that he once viewed as a punishment.

It's not a terrible ending and emphasizes his willingness to do whatever it takes to protect Cardassia.

Spoiler: Alternate solution

I think that garak was ruined in that book.
He comes out as a wimp, just as if Kira should move to Cardassia and become some housemaid for some Cardassian hotshot in order to repent for the cardassians she killed when she was in the Bajoran resistance movement.

And then he dies and disappear like some has-been.

When I started to read the books The Never Ending Sacrifice and The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack, I was actually happy to see Garak playing an important role for the new Cardassia. So I went out looking for similar books about garak and then I found out about the story in Second Self. It made me so disappointed.

Why couldn't she have continued to write about garak in the sme way as in those books? We could have had Garak as Castellan for Cardassia, leading the people into a new direction and creating a better cardassian society than the one who was destroyed during the Dominion war. We could also have had Garak play an important role when it comes to Cardassian-Federation relations instead of the sorry mess we obviously got in Second Self.

Personally I've toyed with the idea of Garak being stationed on station Deep Space Nine as some liason between Cardassia, The Federation and Bajor, an idea which I will use in possible stories in the future. That would be a much better solution and if he felt guilty about what happened to Bajor, he would have had a better chance to do something for both cardassia and bajor and the relations between them. Not to mention that we would have him back with his friends on te station, maybe with a new wiev of the place he hated when he was in exile.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion, @Lynx. No one is going to begrudge you such. Whether you like or dislike any book is entirely up to you.

I have a different opinion re: Garak, though.

Spoiler

I feel like Garak becoming the ruler of Cardassia seemed out of step with the man and while it's nice to have "happy endings" for alot of characters, I feel like that went too far in the other direction. Garak getting singled out as a war criminal wasn't a great look because as far as we know, he didn't commit any war crimes and even if he did, he's instrumental in winning the Dominion War and saving the entirety of the Alpha Quadrant. You'd think that would be worth a pardon if nothing else.

I'm not saying his ending wasn't bitter sweet but I also feel like it isn't a betrayal of the character either. I'm one of the unpopular opinions that Kira becoming a Vedek is a perfectly appropriate end for her character, though. Even if I think she should never become Kai.

 

[bdub76]

I think, you’d like books that reset at the end with no lasting changes. If that’s the case, don’t read about Chewy in Star Wars books.

 

[20fridge]

PRO is a cartoon and doesn't look that interesting. Maybe I would give SNW a chance if I found some streaming service which is cheap and have some good content overall and is not trying to cheat and insult me like a previous streaming service did a couple of years ago.

If you're considering watching SNW I'd recommend seeing if your local library has SNW DVDs (or a sharing agreement with one that does). It's a good way to test the waters without any investment. And so far, the High Country (the only SNW novel to date) felt like an episode of the show. Also, if I didn't know SNW existed, you could have probably convinced me it was a TOS novel in the vein of recent ones like The Higher Frontier or In Harm's Way.

I'd agree with other posters, that PRO may be worth a try. Unlike Picard, PRO seems to have the kind of reverence for it's legacy characters that you may appreciate. Janeway, Chakotay, Jellico (to a small degree), and (weirdly) Okana have all progressed in their stories. Admiral Janeway is an important recurring character in the back half of the season, and is better (and more consistently well) written than she ever was on Voyager. Chakotay isn't in the show much, but casts a long shadow. Season 2 promises to bring back more 24th century characters. PRO has, so far, avoided grimdark fates for any legacy characters. That said, the books are only enjoyable if you've also bought in to the teenage/child characters.

 

[Greg Cox]

But you don't have to get a streaming service for Strange New Worlds. It's on Amazon and available at your local store. I got mine at Walmart. Season 2 is available as well.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Strange-Worlds-Season/dp/B0BBXZ37W3

It may also be available on disk at your local library.

It's funny. In these days of streaming, people seem to be forgetting that they can find newish books and videos at their neighborhood libraries. Everybody wants to just click on something instead.

 

[Charles Phipps]

It may also be available on disk at your local library.

It's funny. In these days of streaming, people seem to be forgetting that they can find newish books and videos at their neighborhood libraries. Everybody wants to just click on something instead.

I admit, I'd like to support Star Trek directly and let Paramount know I'd prefer if they didn't stream as much versus DVD and show.

 

[bdub76]

It may also be available on disk at your local library.

It's funny. In these days of streaming, people seem to be forgetting that they can find newish books and videos at their neighborhood libraries. Everybody wants to just click on something instead.

And now libraries offer: Hoopla and Kanopy for streaming, which I'm always telling people to check out.

 

[Charles Phipps]

And now libraries offer: Hoopla and Kanopy for streaming, which I'm always telling people to check out.

Hoopla is great for comic books too.

 

[Lynx]

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion, @Lynx. No one is going to begrudge you such. Whether you like or dislike any book is entirely up to you.

I have a different opinion re: Garak, though.

Spoiler

I feel like Garak becoming the ruler of Cardassia seemed out of step with the man and while it's nice to have "happy endings" for alot of characters, I feel like that went too far in the other direction. Garak getting singled out as a war criminal wasn't a great look because as far as we know, he didn't commit any war crimes and even if he did, he's instrumental in winning the Dominion War and saving the entirety of the Alpha Quadrant. You'd think that would be worth a pardon if nothing else.

I'm not saying his ending wasn't bitter sweet but I also feel like it isn't a betrayal of the character either. I'm one of the unpopular opinions that Kira becoming a Vedek is a perfectly appropriate end for her character, though. Even if I think she should never become Kai.

I think, you’d like books that reset at the end with no lasting changes. If that’s the case, don’t read about Chewy in Star Wars books.

Sorry, I have to disagree:

Spoiler: Garak

I don't want to ses Garak being pointed out as a war criminal, like he was in that horrible book or wimp out the way he did in that book and I don't want to see him being killed off either.

I would have loved to see Garak play an important role in Cardassia and for Cardassian-Bajoran-Federation relationships too, not being wasted the way he was. In my future stories, I will have him stationed at DS9 as somel iaison officer or contact between Cardassia and the Federation. As I wrote before, I will not read one single Star Trek book written after 2010 and I will stick to the Lynxverse in everything, especially when it comes to characters like Kes, Garak and Gowron.

As for the Janeway biigraphy, it actually horrified me to find out that the same author who had destroyed Garak also turned my Voyager favorites into a bunch of boring old farts.

If you visit the Kes Website (link in my signature) and follow the link Voyager Mysteries-and how to solve them, you will find some funny comments about Lucy Janeway and Nicole Janeway which I actually did just for fun, making them relatives of Kathryn Janeway with uninteresting lives, Nicole Janeway as living on an ostrich farm. But that was for fun and even that crud little joke was less destroying to those characters than Una McCormack has done in her books.

If you're considering watching SNW I'd recommend seeing if your local library has SNW DVDs (or a sharing agreement with one that does). It's a good way to test the waters without any investment. And so far, the High Country (the only SNW novel to date) felt like an episode of the show. Also, if I didn't know SNW existed, you could have probably convinced me it was a TOS novel in the vein of recent ones like The Higher Frontier or In Harm's Way.

I'd agree with other posters, that PRO may be worth a try. Unlike Picard, PRO seems to have the kind of reverence for it's legacy characters that you may appreciate. Janeway, Chakotay, Jellico (to a small degree), and (weirdly) Okana have all progressed in their stories. Admiral Janeway is an important recurring character in the back half of the season, and is better (and more consistently well) written than she ever was on Voyager. Chakotay isn't in the show much, but casts a long shadow. Season 2 promises to bring back more 24th century characters. PRO has, so far, avoided grimdark fates for any legacy characters. That said, the books are only enjoyable if you've also bought in to the teenage/child characters.

It may also be available on disk at your local library.

It's funny. In these days of streaming, people seem to be forgetting that they can find newish books and videos at their neighborhood libraries. Everybody wants to just click on something instead.

Thanks for nice advices but I have to tell you that I don't live in the US but in an European country where Star Trek is not a big issue, more an interest for a small but dedicated group of fans. The possibility of finding anything Star Trek related in any library here is smaller than finding a highly developed civilisation on Pluto.

In the capital, which is a days trip or so from where I live, there is a Science Fiction bookstore which I visit every time I pass through that city while going abroad in which they have books, DVD.s and such. Back in the "glory days" of the 90's, I used to go there to see what I could find.

But since a couple of years, they have no Star Trek at all, no books, no DVD.s, nothing. Only fantasy, manga and the usual doom-and-gloom stuff which seems to be the trend of the day.

Sometimes I have a feeling that Star trek is crumbling. An interest I've had since I was a kid is slowly disappearing and there is nothing to replace it with.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Sometimes I have a feeling that Star trek is crumbling. An interest I've had since I was a kid is slowly disappearing and there is nothing to replace it with.

Well, right now there's more Star Trek out than there's ever been before so...

 

[Extrocomp]

Sometimes I have a feeling that Star trek is crumbling. An interest I've had since I was a kid is slowly disappearing and there is nothing to replace it with.

Garak is

Spoiler

still alive and well

in the Star Trek Online continuity.

As for other things to be interested in, maybe consider the hundreds of fictional universes connected to Star Trek by crossovers. Or to approach it a different way, think about what it is that you liked about Star Trek and try to find something similar. Just avoid Star Wars. If you don't like the idea of new stories destroying beloved characters, Star Wars is in a much worse place than Star Trek.

 

[Lynx]

I think, you’d like books that reset at the end with no lasting changes. If that’s the case, don’t read about Chewy in Star Wars books.

Don't worry, I'm aware of all that.
No doubt that Star Wars are in deeper trouble than Star Trek.

Well, right now there's more Star Trek out than there's ever been before so...

Lot of quantity but where is the quality?

Garak is

Spoiler

still alive and well

in the Star Trek Online continuity.

And in the Lynxverse as well!
At least some hope for the future!

As for other things to be interested in, maybe consider the hundreds of fictional universes connected to Star Trek by crossovers. Or to approach it a different way, think about what it is that you liked about Star Trek and try to find something similar. Just avoid Star Wars. If you don't like the idea of new stories destroying beloved characters, Star Wars is in a much worse place than Star Trek.

the sad thing is that I can't find anything similar to what I liked in Star Trek in the current "blood and gore" decade.

I can't even find a decent action series. The only series I watch is NCIS and only now and then. Not because it's good anymore, too many good characters are missing but because the stories are still decent.

And I'm aware of the decline of Star Wars.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Lot of quantity but where is the quality?

Yeah, that's the irony. The books I recommended like THE LAST BEST HOPE and ROGUE ELEMENTS are two of the best Star Trek books ever written.

But you need to be familiar with Picard to enjoy them.

 

[Thrawn]

Yeah if you define doom and gloom as any story in which a character ever dies or retires, you are going to have a hard time finding stories for you. No one is at their peak perpetually forever. It’s natural for stories to reflect that.

 

[David cgc]

Yeah, that's the irony. The books I recommended like THE LAST BEST HOPE and ROGUE ELEMENTS are two of the best Star Trek books ever written.

But you need to be familiar with Picard to enjoy them.

Not really. They're both prequels, I read them both long before I saw PIC.

Yeah if you define doom and gloom as any story in which a character ever dies or retires, you are going to have a hard time finding stories for you. No one is at their peak perpetually forever. It’s natural for stories to reflect that.

This point has been raised in the past, especially in the context of Kes, who, with a nine-year lifespan and an age of two at the start of the show, seemed to be set up to go through the entire arc of a lifetime over the course of a seven-year television show. That would not have been an acceptable storyline for him.

(I still haven't gotten that debate I've been waiting for from Team "Everyone Must Always Whither and Die in Stories" versus Team "No One May Ever Whither or Die in Stories.")

 

[Charles Phipps]

I don't begrudge @Lynx their opinion.

Happy endings and an uplifting attitude is good for TrekLit.

It's also the same complaints I voiced about TrekLit at the end--it had gotten too dark and depressing with things like Destiny. At least IMHO.

 

[Greg Cox]

That would be logical for me.

But in that case, why are so many great characters in Star Trek, especially from TNG, DS9 and TOS killed off and destroyed in the books?

Because authors or editors thought this would make for dramatic and compelling stories?

This is a matter of taste, of course. You may personally have a low tolerance for such stories, which is fine. I'm just pushing back against the idea that there's some sort of sneaky, sinister agenda involved. (I confess to being out of patience with fannish conspiracy theories.) Writers just like to put fictional characters through wringers because that's where the drama is. We're ruthless that way.

Thanks again, though, for the kind words about THE BLACK SHORE.

 

[flandry84]

Why get upset about these developments?
As we saw with the Coda books,nothing is written in stone.
Characters that we all love,like Garak are essentially frozen in amber until Paramount(or whoever actually controls all this) decide otherwise.
All the great stories and developments that took place in the Litverse were effectively undone by Coda ,and probably will be again.The books you are getting upset about are just as liable to be superseded in time.
Personally I haven’t jumped back into any Treklit since and probably won’t at this stage.