Madame Web, go-go Marvel Fatigue!

[Kai "the spy"]

You know, in the last period there have been superhero films that have underperformed, films that have been box bombs, films that have been failures from the point of view of critics and audiences, but none have been the perfect storm that Madame Web was. No one has so perfectly represented the concept of failure in the public imagination, becoming an object of derision even at public events such as the Oscars.

I've been looking for other superhero movies with similar infamy and perhaps the most recent candidate is Catwoman. But really, it's not comparable having budgets and scopes so dissimilar to MW. Catwoman was a "relatively" small film, perhaps at most aiming for a sequel if it had been a success. MW wanted to be a piece in a great saga that would take the Sony-Spiderverse to new heights.

Probably the most similar example is Batman & Robin, which single-handedly put an end to the era of Superhero films that began with '78's Superman. But at least that was at least a competently well-made film on a purely technical level.

No, I think MW is truly unique, an anomaly that will be studied in film courses at universities. It will long represent the absolute bottom of the barrel for high-medium budget superhero films: "Well, at least it's not Madame Web!".

I swear, in my opinion we are faced with a historic event.

Not sure whether over-the-top critic, or making fun of over-the-top critics.

 

[Jayson1]

I never got the impression this movie was ever suppose to be a big film. I think everything still revolves around both versions of Spiderman and Venom. This movie along with Mobius and upcoming Kraven I feel like they are desperate attempts to have a franchise that expands beyond just Spiderman movies and Venom was kind of successful in that it was able to stand on it's own for the most part but these others movies just shows how these characters really do only work well as support characters to Spidey.

 

[Tosk]

No, I think MW is truly unique, an anomaly that will be studied in film courses at universities.

It'll be forgotten. Other than being a joke.

 

[Skipper]

I never got the impression this movie was ever suppose to be a big film.

Well, "big" relative to what? It certainly wasn't Avenger End Game-level, but it certainly wasn't Steel or Elektra either.

 

[Skipper]

It'll be forgotten. Other than being a joke.

Well, aren't people still making fun of Superman IV and Catwoman?

 

[Set Harth]

Most people.

 

[Tosk]

Well, aren't people still making fun of Superman IV and Catwoman?

Yes? That's why I said it will be remembered as a joke.

 

[Jayson1]

I think the bigget flop of something that suppose to be big was both tv and movie related and that was The Inhumans. So bad it has been kicked out of canon and completely forgotten. Problem is Inhumans was just really boring more than being silly enough to get humor out of like Madame Webb or Catwoman or Superman 4.

 

[Skipper]

I think the bigget flop of something that suppose to be big was both tv and movie related and that was The Inhumans. So bad it has been kicked out of canon and completely forgotten. Problem is Inhumans was just really boring more than being silly enough to get humor out of like Madame Webb or Catwoman or Superman 4.

You know one thing that sets Madame Web apart from what are considered usually bad superhero movies, like Superman 4 or Batman And Robin? Its total inexplicability. For the latter it is quite clear what happened. For S-IV, the budget was simply not enough. B&R, they wanted to make it a kind of mega commercial for toys because Burton's version was considered too dark.

But Madame Web? Many reviewers are perplexed how such an inept product was made. Maybe one day we will know the behind the scenes of what happened. Perhaps some tax scam a là Uwe Bolls?

 

[Set Harth]

B&R, they wanted to make it a kind of mega commercial for toys because Burton's version was considered too dark.

Were they trying to recapture the 'camp' vibe of the old TV show?

 

[Jayson1]

You know one thing that sets Madame Web apart from what are considered usually bad superhero movies, like Superman 4 or Batman And Robin? Its total inexplicability. For the latter it is quite clear what happened. For S-IV, the budget was simply not enough. B&R, they wanted to make it a kind of mega commercial for toys because Burton's version was considered too dark.

But Madame Web? Many reviewers are perplexed how such an inept product was made. Maybe one day we will know the behind the scenes of what happened. Perhaps some tax scam a là Uwe Bolls?

I agree. I mean their was a already built in fan interest in Catwoman and Superman. Plus Hallie Berry was I think just off her Oscar and was a big name at the time. Making those movies made sense.

 

[theenglish]

Well, "big" relative to what? It certainly wasn't Avenger End Game-level, but it certainly wasn't Steel or Elektra either.

To me, all these Sony Spider Villain movies are pretty much exactly that--modern versions of Steel, Elektra, and the like.

 

[The Wormhole]

It'll be forgotten. Other than being a joke.

What's going to be remembered most from MW wasn't even in the movie itself, but rather that line in the trailers about Mommy studying spiders in the Amazon just before she died. That's going to turn into a joke that everyone knows but no one remembers where it originated.

 

[JD]

You know, in the last period there have been superhero films that have underperformed, films that have been box bombs, films that have been failures from the point of view of critics and audiences, but none have been the perfect storm that Madame Web was. No one has so perfectly represented the concept of failure in the public imagination, becoming an object of derision even at public events such as the Oscars.

I've been looking for other superhero movies with similar infamy and perhaps the most recent candidate is Catwoman. But really, it's not comparable having budgets and scopes so dissimilar to MW. Catwoman was a "relatively" small film, perhaps at most aiming for a sequel if it had been a success. MW wanted to be a piece in a great saga that would take the Sony-Spiderverse to new heights.

Probably the most similar example is Batman & Robin, which single-handedly put an end to the era of Superhero films that began with '78's Superman. But at least that was at least a competently well-made film on a purely technical level.

No, I think MW is truly unique, an anomaly that will be studied in film courses at universities. It will long represent the absolute bottom of the barrel for high-medium budget superhero films: "Well, at least it's not Madame Web!".

I swear, in my opinion we are faced with a historic event.

I don't think it's really noteworthy enough to go down in history like that. I haven't seen it first hand, but from everything I've seen it doesn't look that bad.

I think the bigget flop of something that suppose to be big was both tv and movie related and that was The Inhumans. So bad it has been kicked out of canon and completely forgotten. Problem is Inhumans was just really boring more than being silly enough to get humor out of like Madame Webb or Catwoman or Superman 4.

Wouldn't Anson Mount playing Black Bolt in Multiverse of Madness indicate that Inhumans hasn't been totally "kicked out of canon"?

Were they trying to recapture the 'camp' vibe of the old TV show?

I did read an article a while back that said that was meant to be a big budget version of the '60s TV series, and when I watched it I approached it with that in mind. I really don't know if I'd call it a bad movie, it's just that it wasn't what people wanted.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Wouldn't Anson Mount playing Black Bolt in Multiverse of Madness indicate that Inhumans hasn't been totally "kicked out of canon"?

Indeed. In fact, Kevin Feige himself has said that every single Marvel television show and cartoon ever produced exists somewhere in the multiverse (even Madame Web!).

I'm going to say Inhumans are in Earth 617, along with the first five seasons of Agents of SHIELD, the Agent Carter series, Cloak and Dagger and Runaways.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I've been looking for other superhero movies with similar infamy and perhaps the most recent candidate is Catwoman. But really, it's not comparable having budgets and scopes so dissimilar to MW. Catwoman was a "relatively" small film, perhaps at most aiming for a sequel if it had been a success. MW wanted to be a piece in a great saga that would take the Sony-Spiderverse to new heights.

I don't know, Catwoman had a budget of $100M, $160M in 2024 dollars, Madame Web had a budget of $80M. If anything Madame Web had the modest budget many people have been saying comic book movies have been needing, it just wasn't very successful. The Marvels made more at the box office but also lost more relative to its budget.

Were they trying to recapture the 'camp' vibe of the old TV show?

I think they were trying to capture the camp vibe of Schumacher and what appealed to him from those silver age comics of his youth.

 

[Jayson1]

I don't think it's really noteworthy enough to go down in history like that. I haven't seen it first hand, but from everything I've seen it doesn't look that bad.

Wouldn't Anson Mount playing Black Bolt in Multiverse of Madness indicate that Inhumans hasn't been totally "kicked out of canon"?

I did read an article a while back that said that was meant to be a big budget version of the '60s TV series, and when I watched it I approached it with that in mind. I really don't know if I'd call it a bad movie, it's just that it wasn't what people wanted.

I think they made a exception for Mount because he is awesome.

 

[Anwar]

But Madame Web? Many reviewers are perplexed how such an inept product was made. Maybe one day we will know the behind the scenes of what happened. Perhaps some tax scam a là Uwe Bolls?

I mean, the whole "Why did she get a movie?" argument isn't that valid considering how Guardians of the Galaxy turned out. The issue here is the writing and directing rather than the mere concept

 

[Jayson1]

Guardians got a movie because it was made by a already established great director in James Gunn. Webb was made by someone named SJ Clarkson. Who has I think maybe done one movie and is better know for doing tv. Clarkson also sort of represents one of the issues with recent comic book movies.

They are hiring unknown people because they are cheap and easier for a studio to control than hiring someone with experience and who will want more freedom to make the movie he or she wants to actually make.

Gunn on the other hand seemed to have more freedom than anyone else who has worked in the MCU. In fact at one point he was going to be in charge of all the space based stuff in the MCU if I recall until he got canceled and then uncanceled.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They are hiring unknown people because they are cheap and easier for a studio to control than hiring someone with experience and who will want more freedom to make the movie he or she wants to actually make.

Are they? The last few MCU fims incuded by such "unknown" dicectors as Sam Rami. Ryan Coogler and Peyton Reed.