Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x01 - "Red Directive"

[Lord Garth]

Wow...just wow.

Kudos for honesty, I guess.

Nah. He's playing a character at this point. He's been doing it for a while. While I do believe he genuinely dislikes the show, the negativity was so over-the-top and exaggerated that I think it's just for show. He wants to entertain his audience.

 

[J. Frank Doobie]

Pretty fun episode. Love the adventure energy. It's funny that it's once again a galaxy-spanning threat. That's fine, it's just the style of the show.

I'll say this though: In five season of a show called Discovery, about a ship of the same name, none of the seasons are about space exploration. The plots are all military, the characters never act like soldiers, it's just been kind of dissonant. This crew seemed perfectly fit for science-based mysteries, with their close friendships, banter, and general nerdiness --- and all they ever get to do is action stuff. Odd.

It's also funny about the bridge crew --- I agree, I wish they'd been bigger players, but the show does have some core characters (and the writers put them all together in the celebration scene, as if to say, "These are the main characters." Five seasons in, I'm surprised people still cannot wrap their minds around the fact that this is a ST show with a main characters, Burnham, and a supporting cast. That's just how they chose to tell the story.

PROS:

• Mary Wiseman is always charming, though I agree that the flirting scene, while perfectly acted, sort of felt shoehorned, like it was a scene from a later episode they pushed up to establish Tilly's season arc early.
• Rayner is a fairly interesting and well-played character so far.
• David Ajala, I don't know what magic he possesses, but he's got a wonderful energy --- playful but calm, complex but kind, troubled but optimistic(?) --- that makes the scenes between Book and Michael very real and believable.
• Visuals this season look spectacular.
• Music, especially during the desert planet sequence, was pretty great!
• I loved Fred. His sort of self-taught humanity expressed in bizarre ways, the fact that he looked SO GOOD, the camera work on his puzzle box sequence was really fun, and I like that they very expressly treated him as a living being --- Michael notes that next of kin should be notified, his body is analyzed in sickbay, with Stamets going to sickbay rather than simply scanning him in engineering.
• I kinda like Stamet's weird legacy obsession this season, at least as an idea. Stamets is a weird character, sort of bristly and self-centered in ways that make him compelling and also really annoying.
• Regarding a comment about "two new bridge extras..." They took two bridge officers on an away mission. Do you think Starfleet doesn't have standby bridge officers???
• Happy for Saru and Madame President! Love the characterization and playfulness of T'Rina, and Saru is probably the best and most interesting contribution to Star Trek that Disco created.
• I think they're becoming more playful about the 31st century tech, and I like that.

CONS:

• As always, so much of the dialogue feels like a first pass. I suspect they have tried hard to get away from the overly-professionalized dialogue of previous iterations, but man does it just feel lazy sometimes, like they wrote down the kind of thing the line should be and never revised it thinking "would a future person talk like this?" Or perhaps its a mildly condescending writing style that assumes audiences won't like/understand if they didn't speak in contemporary slang.
• The naval tradition of Starfleet is really thrown out the window in so much of Discovery and I think that's odd --- not that people will be less rigid in the future, I think especially in he ST world, BUT Starfleet does the universe's most dangerous work, so little things would help. i.e. there was a scene where the bridge crew were actually talking like a bridge crew, proving verbal updates, etc. and I was like "oh right, this is a Starfleet crew!"
• Does Discovery not have a science division? Just two people?
• Stamets always plays the "on the radio from the lab, he has seconds to save us!" scenes WAY TOO calmly, flippantly even. Then again, I think that's just sort of how Stamets is --- insecure guy trying all the time to be a cool, smart guy.
• I agree with folks who don't like the Iron Man-style projected HUD displays, though it's a smart evolution of Trek Tech. I just think it will look very dated very soon. Physical controls are just better for physical bodies. HOWEVER, I do find the projected nametags very charming.
• Discovery still suffers from a very strangely small-feeling universe. I think that's to build character depth, but I think the story kinda suffers from that. Is Vance the only admiral? Is the president the only civilian official? SHe must be busy! I get that this is a beat-down Federation, but c'mon. Again, it starts to feel like the creators don't respect the audience.

 

[J. Frank Doobie]

Perhaps you might be conjuring up a precedent set by some other Starfleet officer to render the above critique null and void. Sure, you could reference any number of episodes from the canon. But no matter which past episode you choose, were they ever this... obnoxious about it all?

Damn, trying to figure out the difference between Michael Burnham and all the other captains who have done this sort of thing... Hmmm, I wonder what it is that makes her seem so uppity, sorry, "obnoxious" to you...

 

[fireproof78]

Again, it starts to feel like the creators don't respect the audience.

I see this more ans more and haven't a clue as to the meaning of it. What does "respecting the audience " mean?

 

[Michael]

I kinda like Stamet's weird legacy obsession this season, at least as an idea.

I felt it was a not so thinly-veiled attempt at establishing a sort of analogy to the show ending and what its legacy as a whole will be. I’m sure it will end with Stamets declaring that even if no-one might ever really remember his name after all, it was all worth it for the friends and family he made along the way. Something like that.

 

[J. Frank Doobie]

I see this more ans more and haven't a clue as to the meaning of it. What does "respecting the audience " mean?

A big part of it is understanding that the audience is okay with not knowing everything all at once.

To me, it means starting from the assumption that viewers can put things together for themselves. The lack of non-recurring characters seems to imply that viewers can only keep track of a handful of characters. The President IS the Federation, and if we had some no-name official in the meeting it might confuse the audience, for example.

 

[J. Frank Doobie]

I’m sure it will end with Stamets declaring that even if no-one might ever really remember his name after all, it was all worth it for the friends and family he made along the way. Something like that.

Would fit a lot of the themes of the show and, IMO, soften Stamets up a bit. It would be an unsurprising but satisfying arc, I think/hope.

 

[Michael]

Would fit a lot of the themes of the show and, IMO, soften Stamets up a bit. It would be an unsurprising but satisfying arc, I think/hope.

That’s how I view it as well. Not the most imaginative thing, but still a very natural thing for any person to wonder at some point in their life. And also a worthy thing for the writers to mull over. Writing for a show like Star Trek that’s a part of a decades old franchise comes with so many expectations. Everyone wants you to do this, that or the other. And you probably have to try and stay true to yourself and your own aspirations as a writer while trying to satisfy everyone’s expectations.

 

[J. Frank Doobie]

Everyone wants you to do this, that or the other. And you probably have to try and stay true to yourself and your own aspirations as a writer while trying to satisfy everyone’s expectations.

Right. Just do your best version of what you are driven by, and don't worry too much about how history views it. Adira's line about how the end of spore drive makes Disco unique was very thematic -- of Stamets, of the crew of the Disco, and of the show itself.

Not my favorite iteration of Trek, but boy am I glad they did it!

 

[Michael]

Not my favorite iteration of Trek, but boy am I glad they did it!

That’s exactly where I am with the show. I have a lot of problems with it, but I’m glad it exists and I’m thankful that it jump-started the franchise on the small screen again. It‘s simply where it works best. And if it weren’t for Discovery, I probably would never have gotten Lower Decks or Strange New Worlds, which I both love to pieces.

 

[fireproof78]

A big part of it is understanding that the audience is okay with not knowing everything all at once.

But many clearly are not ok.

 

[J. Frank Doobie]

But many clearly are not ok.

Agreed, I just think that playing to the dumbest segment of your audience --- and, honestly, at this point, the segment already disinclined to give the show a fair shot --- is not the way to create your best work. I think the show suffers for it, but I do think you're right; some of the audience is so shallow, inattentive, impatient, and I simply think that you shouldn't attune your show to bad-faith viewers.

 

[fireproof78]

Agreed, I just think that playing to the dumbest segment of your audience --- and, honestly, at this point, the segment already disinclined to give the show a fair shot --- is not the way to create your best work. I think the show suffers for it, but I do think you're right; some of the audience is so shallow, inattentive, impatient, and I simply think that you shouldn't attune your show to bad-faith viewers.

But their often the loudest and how are production teams to know bad faith?

 

[Lord Garth]

But their often the loudest and how are production teams to know bad faith?

Disregard anyone who sounds extreme and ignore anyone who doesn't give a reasoned argument. If they're just taking potshots or mostly just using buzzwords, keep scrolling. That's how you tell who's a bad-faith viewer. If an opinion lacks any nuance, that's another sure sign.

They've been looking at feedback for seven years so, after all this time, I think they can tell.

I've gotten to the point where I've noticed some people assume the posture of, "If they're for it, we're against it." Once I caught on, dealing with it when I see it became a lot easier.

 

[J. Frank Doobie]

But their often the loudest and how are production teams to know bad faith?

Well if they are often the loudest, then, I'd look for the loudest critics (and those whose criticisms sounds the same even as the show evolves) and ignore them.

 

[J. Frank Doobie]

Well if they are often the loudest, then, I'd look for the loudest critics (and those whose criticisms sounds the same even as the show evolves) and ignore them.

I'd also add --- my personal view is that creating a show/movie/etc. is not a negotiation between consumers and producers. It's an artistic endeavor that's been commercialized, not a commercial endeavor wrapped in art. Or at least that's the idea.

 

[fireproof78]

I'd also add --- my personal view is that creating a show/movie/etc. is not a negotiation between consumers and producers. It's an artistic endeavor that's been commercialized, not a commercial endeavor wrapped in art. Or at least that's the idea.

Maybe in the past.

 

[eschaton]

My only "issue" with Michael in this episode is the same structural issue the show had in Season 4 - she's the fucking captain, she shouldn't be out there doing a rodeo impersonation on the back of a ship at warp, or in a dirtbike race. That's a job for your subbordinates.

Yeah, I know all the other shows did this to some degree, though TNG and DS9 tried to downplay it and let other characters often do the "away mission" part of the episode. But just like in seasons 1/2 the show had this strange desire to put Michael in a position of command even when she wasn't captain yet, now they seem to want to have her as the rough and ready adventurer even when it makes sense to stay on the ship and...you know...lead the bridge crew.

That said, I'm completely resigned to the fact that the writers on Discovery just seem incapable of understanding how a chain of command works. At least SNW seems to be getting this mostly right.

 

[Mr Awe]

when it makes sense to stay on the ship and...you know...lead the bridge crew.

That's especially true for this particular bridge crew which needs the leadership more than others. They're not really their own people in this series. I can't imagine that bland group taking the initiative!

 

[eschaton]

That's especially true for this particular bridge crew which needs the leadership more than others. They're not really their own people in this series. I can't imagine that bland group taking the initiative!

To be fair, in this episode she did leave Saru onboard to act as the captain. You can't say that in the following episode, when they both go on an away mission at once.

Discovery in general felt very insubstantial in this episode, between the instantaneous travel, the rapid transporting, and how the ship was basically divorced from the action scenes. There's an alternate version of this episode where Michael is in a shuttlecraft (or Book's ship, before it blew up) that can read almost identically.