What very small plot (or plot detail) would make for an interesting Star Trek story?

[HIjol]

I was always a fan of the outraged McCoy scene, where Bones was calling Spock a "...Green-Blooded, Inhuman...!!!"

What about a "Fantastic Voyage-like episode, where we travel inside Spock's body,
checking out all the cool anatomy and brain function of a Vulcan, and where McCoy has to "go in" to fix Spock's brain in order to serve the plot line problem/solution?

Spock's Brain II?

 

[evilchumlee]

And while I agree it is more an implication, what else could he be implying?

I don't think he's specifically implying "What the Q does is all based around advanced technology", more so just that what see as "omnipotent" isn't ACTUALLY, the Q are not all powerful. They have limitations and they CAN be killed(ish). Just, to our puny human eyes, they appear to be omnipotent.

Hell, we even know that the El Aurians fought a war against the Q, and judging by the fact that they still exist, didn't lose. It actually seems like the El Aurians did worse against the Borg than they did the Q, although I feel like that does make a certain amount of sense...*

But I would prefer to think that the Q's power is not technological. We've seen other non-corporeal beings that we know just have access to powers beyond our understanding via universal forces.

I would say it could be argued that the Q, and other beings like them, very much ARE "gods" (small-g) in so much as they have some kind of mastery over natural forces, giving them powers far beyond mortal men. They're not like, big-G God, they didn't CREATE the universe, they're just a part of it (or, maybe more accurate, have access to it... i'm not sure the Continuum is actually a part of the universe.)

*El Aurians have some kind of connection to the space/time continuum and are, perhaps even subconsciously, somewhat resistant to alterations in it. They may not exist entirely within the fabric of space/time, but their physical body does. If we take that the Q are not ALL powerful, and given that their powers revolve around manipulating space/time, it seems to follow that El Aurians could be somewhat resistant to Q. Borg, however... Borg just assimilate/kill the physical part rooted in the universe.

 

[NCC-73515]

In a universe where activating introns can turn you into a spider, having vaguely influenced long-term evolution towards one shape is not a big deal. The origin of life on Earth still happened without the progenitors, unless there's an antitime anomaly

Other species probably evolved without their influence, like invertebrates. They just altered some factors that make humanoid shapes more advantageous. Hey they might even have "seeded" 5k planets like that, and in only 300 it really worked, cause unaltered evolution brought up creatures there that suppressed humanoid evolution.

Since this is becoming a bigger discussion, maybe some people want to know a little detail... I put it in two spoiler tags so you can first see what it is generally about, and then decide if you want to see the details or not.

Spoiler

This is a spoiler about something coming up in the Trek universe

Spoiler

Disco S5 deals with the Progenitors again and even features one of the Romulans who were there in The Chase, hopefully that Commander who told Picard "One day..."

 

[Shawnster]

The research that went into creating Data (Lore, an B4). I'd like to see a story where Noonian Soong visited Exo III, Planet Mudd, Flint's home, and maybe even Sarpedon where he was able to research and examine all the different historical androids from TOS and how he was able to take all this know and create Data

 

[Citiprime]

I don't see how the Progenitors from "The Chase" is too wild an idea. These beings are shown as just really, really advanced and that they seeded worlds with genetic designs. Simply put, not gods... just advanced. Like the Prophets... Bajorans view them as gods, but they aren't. They are simply more powerful than corporeal beings. (And they CAN be killed by corporeals with chroniton beams.)

Just like the Q... "DEATH WISH" established that they simply have ultra sophisticated technology.

In short, STAR TREK remembers one of Clarke's laws: any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic.

Q, Apollo, Trelane... and the Progenitors.

I think for me, and like I said before this is just my preference and admittedly maybe this is just me being picky, since I don't begrudge anyone that likes it, finds it interesting, or thinks it's a good addition (and the reason I suggested some ways you could make connections to other aspects of the Star Trek universe is I can see how writers thought it could be a good story idea to play with), but the overall idea of ancient astronauts being responsible for humanity's origin is something that tends to take me out of the story because I find it an aspect that distances the Star Trek universe from "our" world.

It hits me in the same way others have justified Discovery and Strange New Worlds retconning the Eugenics Wars, Khan's origin, and other aspects of TOS to make it more "believable" for our timeline and being "aspirational" with our history. That, for some people, if you're going to say that Trek having Eugenic Wars in the 1990s, late 20th-century genetic supermen, Gorn in rubber suits, and starships in the 2200s with knobs and dials takes them out because it seems too ridiculous, well the parts of Trek where Earth "history" has space-faring dinosaurs and ancient astronauts responsible for our existence takes me out in the same way because it doesn't seem believable. That's just my perspective.

So...seeding life takes away human accomplishment...how?

And if that's the objection why not object to "Tattoo" as well?

Again, just a personal opinion, but I think ascribing human existence to some celestial "parentage," whether it be a "Heavenly Father" or ancient astronauts, gets into the realm of a fantasy that takes me out of the story in the same way people (and the current Trek showrunners) think TOS' fictional history about 1990s Eugenics Wars is too much because it doesn't seem grounded with our own history.

And who says I don't have the same objection to "Tattoo" with Voyager?

I think that episode and a LOT of Voyager's depiction of Native American history and culture were ridiculous and arguably offensive in ascribing aspects of a real human culture to an alien origin, especially given the show had a Native American consultant feeding them advice whom later turned out to be an absolute fraud.

I would say it could be argued that the Q, and other beings like them, very much ARE "gods" (small-g) in so much as they have some kind of mastery over natural forces, giving them powers far beyond mortal men. They're not like, big-G God, they didn't CREATE the universe, they're just a part of it (or, maybe more accurate, have access to it... i'm not sure the Continuum is actually a part of the universe.)

If there's one tweak I would make to Voyager's "Death Wish," I would change the presentation of the Q Continuum since I think it makes the Q a little "too" powerful.

The way it's presented is as a place where the Q are bored because they see the universe as a road that they've explored fully, completely, and has no surprises for them to the point of leading to boredom and stagnation. Because, arguably, if you accept the Q as a race that can go anywhere on "the road" and know everything about everything that will ever happen on the road, and have mastery over the material world, that gets really close to omnipotence.

I think it would have been better to say that to them the universe is a road that never ends. And that people like Quinn are tired of traveling an endless road that leads to just more and more road. To me, that's a more interesting perspective. A "god-like" being who becomes sick of an existence where the endless mysteries isn't enough anymore.

 

[fireproof78]

I think for me, and like I said before this is just my preference and admittedly maybe this is just me being picky, since I don't begrudge anyone that likes it, finds it interesting, or thinks it's a good addition (and the reason I suggested some ways you could make connections to other aspects of the Star Trek universe is I can see how writers thought it could be a good story idea to play with), but the overall idea of ancient astronauts being responsible for humanity's origin is something that tends to take me out of the story because I find it an aspect that distances the Star Trek universe from "our" world.

I'm trying to be fair. But, well, Trek has always been fantastical to me, especially with the literal devil being included. So, yeah, mileage will vary. I don't think it takes anything away, because all they did was seed it. You still have the whole evolutionary bent within the Trek universe, far more so and at times more fantastical than our own.

And who says I don't have the same objection to "Tattoo" with Voyager?

Well, it was an assumption on my part, but the way that "The Chase" was singled out seemed rather exclusively a "this episode" problem.

Again, just a personal opinion, but I think ascribing human existence to some celestial "parentage," whether it be a "Heavenly Father" or ancient astronauts, gets into the realm of a fantasy that takes me out of the story in the same way people (and the current Trek showrunners) think TOS' fictional history about 1990s Eugenics Wars is too much because it doesn't seem grounded with our own history.

Pretty much going to have to leave this as a "agree to disagree" point because I just don't see the issue. I don't see anything religious or spiritual, or anything connected to this concept. I don't see how it takes away from the accomplishments of humanity, anymore than Quinn interfering in human history, or Gary Seven, or Guinan, or on and on.

Again, personal preference. I just don't even grasp how this is problematic.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I would say it could be argued that the Q, and other beings like them, very much ARE "gods" (small-g) in so much as they have some kind of mastery over natural forces, giving them powers far beyond mortal men. They're not like, big-G God, they didn't CREATE the universe, they're just a part of it (or, maybe more accurate, have access to it... i'm not sure the Continuum is actually a part of the universe.)

So they're Demi-Gods or (little-G God).

Except, instead of a "god" being responsible, ancient astronauts pushed everything towards a humanoid form.

You mean BiPaBs {Bi-(Pedal & Brachial)oids} form
Up-Right standing "Sentient & Sapient" creatures using 2 legs to stand, along with 2 arms & some form of hands, a torso w/ usually one head & maybe a tail (optional).

 

[evilchumlee]

The way it's presented is as a place where the Q are bored because they see the universe as a road that they've explored fully, completely, and has no surprises for them to the point of leading to boredom and stagnation. Because, arguably, if you accept the Q as a race that can go anywhere on "the road" and know everything about everything that will ever happen on the road, and have mastery over the material world, that gets really close to omnipotence.

I think it would have been better to say that to them the universe is a road that never ends. And that people like Quinn are tired of traveling an endless road that leads to just more and more road. To me, that's a more interesting perspective. A "god-like" being who becomes sick of an existence where the endless mysteries isn't enough anymore.

I can see that, but I also think it makes it more easy to understand for us puny mortals. I'm ok with the idea that we just quite frankly can't comprehend the Q. They aren't "all powerful", but to us they might as well be, because we can't even fathom how they might be in any way vulnerable. They've done everything there is to do, seen everything there is to see, and yet despite all of that... they also have not.

I do think the Q are probably "close" to omnipotence, in the same way that Warp 9.9999999999999 is "close" to Warp 10. It is, and it isn't at all.

I'm still very much into the idea of getting a small glimpse into the the, for lack of a better descriptor, "Kingdom of Heaven" in Trek. The interactions that occur on a level beyond that meat-bags (or... crystalline-structures?) flying around subspace in metal boxes. The layer above that, where the "gods" intermingle. The Q, the Douwd, Trelanes people, potentially Organians, STV "God", there's no shortage of "god-like" beings out there and I highly doubt they all just ignore each other. The Q Civil War, for instance, should have drawn the attention of these other beings.

Shifting gears, touching on my first detail of the Dyson Sphere, I would love to know more about it but also I would like some reasoning as to WHY we don't really hear about it again. It's... kind of a big deal. I can think of reasons. It may actually be an area of galactic cooperation to some extent, with scientists from all over coming to study it in a general agreement that nobody gets to claim this, else it's going to lead to all-out war. Might be neat to find out that the Borg know of it, and potentially have some knowledge of the builders, and with that knowledge... they won't mess with it. The Borg are afraid of it.

That might also play into why we don't hear much about it. We only scratched the surface in "Relics", but perhaps as more exploration was done, it's discovered that the Dyson Sphere is actually incredibly dangerous, with all manner of automatic defenses designed specifically to keep pesky low-tech barbarians out of it, defenses that nobody has any hope of being able to even remotely counter.

Ideas are pouring out as i'm typing this... how about this for a scenario. Circling back to the idea that Borg know of it, and are terrified of it, at some point the Borg show up and rather than try to assimilate everyone... they pretty much tell everyone "No. Off-Limits." and basically quarantine/blockade it. Anyone who tries to break though is just flat out destroyed and in an absolutely mind-boggling exchange, the Borg actually open up a minor dialogue ala Janeway and give everyone a brief "Go away. You might wake it up. We're doing this for your own good." type explanation. Maybe drive it home with the Borg outright stating, "Even to us, resistance is futile." EDIT - Oh hey, what if the PIC S1 Reaper-Machines had a hand in destroying the race who built it? And maybe they're like, still there?

Shifting gears again, I would also like to revisit the idea of the First Federation. There's a super advanced, ancient Empire just kinda hanging out somewhere around Federation space that we just... never hear from again. It's not quite THAT out of the ordinary, there are at least a few, like the planet from TNG "When the Bough Breaks".

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

What about a "Fantastic Voyage-like episode, where we travel inside Spock's body,
checking out all the cool anatomy and brain function of a Vulcan, and where McCoy has to "go in" to fix Spock's brain in order to serve the plot line problem/solution?

Spock's Brain II?

Sounds promising. One can only imagine the constant wars between his Vulcan antibodies and his human ones...until Kirk somehow convinces them to shake protoplasms.

 

[PoorSailorsAirline]

Everyone has such an interest in Earth. I understand the time travellers, but there's so many others. What's so damn special about Earth?!

I always figured Earth was just the most neutral spot to set up? Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites seem like they barely tolerate each other in a spaceborne room, never mind having to pick one of those three planets. Earth is kind of like a Brussels, New York, Geneva, etc. etc. Doesn't mean Humans are in control, but the building had to go somewhere and it would take a cashless future for San Francisco real estate to become affordable, so hello Starfleet Command.

For plots I wish would have gotten more attention, I'd have liked more Tam Elbrun/Lon Suder Betazoids introduced or at least explained. Something about mind readers with such troubled minds of their own is spooky.

 

[somebuddyX]

The further adventures of the Noh-Jay Consortium.

 

[evilchumlee]

I always figured Earth was just the most neutral spot to set up? Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites seem like they barely tolerate each other in a spaceborne room, never mind having to pick one of those three planets. Earth is kind of like a Brussels, New York, Geneva, etc. etc. Doesn't mean Humans are in control, but the building had to go somewhere and it would take a cashless future for San Francisco real estate to become affordable, so hello Starfleet Command.

I meant that less in terms of the Federation and it's infrastructure, and more through Earth's pre-Federation history. Prior to Earth being important in seemingly any way whatsoever, there were all kinds of aliens doing things here.

 

[matthunter]

The research that went into creating Data (Lore, an B4). I'd like to see a story where Noonian Soong visited Exo III, Planet Mudd, Flint's home, and maybe even Sarpedon where he was able to research and examine all the different historical androids from TOS and how he was able to take all this know and create Data

This story exists - the TNG novel Immortal Coil. Also includes M-5.

 

[BillJ]

This story exists - the TNG novel Immortal Coil. Also includes M-5.

A very entertaining novel.

 

[HIjol]

Screenplay!!!

 

[BillJ]

Screenplay!!!

If one really, really enjoys memberberries, then "Immortal Coil" is something that is not to be missed.

 

[at Quark's]

I always figured Earth was just the most neutral spot to set up? Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites seem like they barely tolerate each other in a spaceborne room, never mind having to pick one of those three planets. Earth is kind of like a Brussels, New York, Geneva, etc. etc. Doesn't mean Humans are in control, but the building had to go somewhere and it would take a cashless future for San Francisco real estate to become affordable, so hello Starfleet Command.

Interestingly enough, many such international institutions in real life end up in smaller countries (The Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, for example) exactly because 'the big guys' don't want them in each other's countries. Yet I don't think 'earth' is a small player in terms of interstellar power, though perhaps it still was back when the Federation was established on Earth.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I tend to think that Humans dominate Starfleet more than any other Federation institution because it was originated on Earth and adopted many Earth naval traditions that are still observed today. Outside of Starfleet, and perhaps especially so the farther one is from Earth, it could be a case that things get less Earth-centric. It could even be in the more distant and remote corners of the Federation, Humans could be quite the minority.

 

[publiusr]

There lies the First Federation?

 

[Verteron]

Who sent the Whale Probe and what their relationship was with Earth's Humpback Whales in the ancient past.