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Spoilers ALL of season 2 online NOW in French!!

When Tom Paris appeared on LD he was still a Lieutenant - though this was before they were all promoted.

He was a full LT, which was about right. Unlike Harry, he had been promoted only a year before Voyager got home.

Harry, contrastingly, went seven years without a promotion, so he would be due for at least a two-rank bump.

We also don't know how long Boimler was an Ensign in SF before we see him on the Cerritos...

Freeman considered him one of her best and brightest, so he probably hadn't been one for too long.

Had he not had that sexual escapade in Season 5 episode'The Disease', he probably would have been promoted

He should have been promoted a year or two before the escapade.

I am thinking that was the main 'in universe' reason he didn't get promoted for so long, and the fact he didn't really 'push' himself until about Season 4 episode 'Deamon' (when Paris noticed that Kim was starting to seem less green).

"Twisted" destroys that. Janeway declares to Harry that he has exceeded all of her expectations.

Department head experience means promotion.

There's no excuse.

There really isn't. And I ought to know, as Kim's self-appointed defender, I've pretty much refuted them all.
 
Kim slept with an alien and ignored a whole slew of regulations. Janeway treated it as a serious breach of SF protocol (which she made absolutely clear and the situation was delicate at best given how untrustworthy some of the Varro were).

That is a perfectly valid excuse and a 'stain' on someone's record that could hinder their advancement.
Kim was lucky she didn't kick him off Bridge duty.
He should have been promoted far before that stupid incident, and one that Tom had violated far earlier in the season. He was exceeding Janeway's expectations, was a rising star, as illustrated in other timelines. He was a department head, who's seniority was so established within the hierarchy that a full lieutenant asks him for advice in "Twisted."

And speaking of twisted, it's convoluted the justifications used to keep him there. In the real world US NAVY, two years time in grade is all that is needed to move from ensign to lieutenant j.g. And, since he has been acting as a department head, after two years at that he should be at lieutenant j.g.
 
Kim slept with an alien and ignored a whole slew of regulations. Janeway treated it as a serious breach of SF protocol (which she made absolutely clear and the situation was delicate at best given how untrustworthy some of the Varro were).

That is a perfectly valid excuse and a 'stain' on someone's record that could hinder their advancement.
Kim was lucky she didn't kick him off Bridge duty.
Tom got demoted for violating the damn prime directive, and gets his rank back a year later.
 
Kim slept with an alien and ignored a whole slew of regulations. Janeway treated it as a serious breach of SF protocol (which she made absolutely clear and the situation was delicate at best given how untrustworthy some of the Varro were).
Janeway slept with an alien and always ignored ALL the regulations!:lol:
 
Tom got demoted for violating the damn prime directive, and gets his rank back a year later.

I know... and there was no good reason to deny Kim his promotion at that stage.

However, Janeway gave a field commission to Paris to Lt. in Caretaker Pt. 2. So that means he was probably an ensign by the time he left the academy and caused that accident because those were special circumstances.

Oh and even though he was demoted and promoted again in just 1 year, I seem to recall he did NOT advance in rank AFTER coming back from the DQ. On LD, he was still a Lt (and that show takes place years after VOY ended).

So, his 1 year demotion notwithstanding, Pairs has been a Lt for longer than Kim has been an Ensign (that we know of).

Janeway slept with an alien and always ignored ALL the regulations!:lol:

Did she though?
Kasshik of the DeVore might have been her passerby romance - but beyond mere kissing, I don't recall that they were sexually intimate (and Janeway would have had the sensibility to scan them while their inspection teams were onboard with internal sensors to make sure they weren't posing a bio threat - or the DeVore would have done that beforehand as I'm pretty sure they would also be hesitant about boarding a vessel that carries aliens which could pose a bio threat to their species).

The second one was when the crew was kidnapped and got their memories altered... so she was really acting without any real awareness of her own and the local doctors probably made sure that different species mixing wasn't an issue on a biological level.

Kim broke regulations because he knowingly engaged in sex with another alien without anyone's permission or knowledge and the Doctor didn't have any data on Varro biology.

And just to reiterate... I'm not saying that his lack of advancement was right... I'm just trying to find some kind of in-universe explanation that would have justified it.
He may have 'exceeded' Janeway's expectations in "Twisted", but lets be realistic, Kim was at the very start of his career and that would be considered a 'step in the right direction' (plus, the 'original' Kim did die in 'Deadlock' and got replaced with his duplicate - perhaps that played a part?)... and despite on how well he performed then, we did get a dialogue in "Demon" episode that he was still considered by Paris to be 'fairly green' in the early years.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but no other VOY member beyond Tuvok and Paris received promotions (sans Torres who had to be given a high ranking position as chief engineer - and she also didn't advance in rank that we know of - I suspect that both Torres and Paris would have ended up waiting longer before they advanced in rank due to how they got it in the first place - not that they hadn't earned them, but still...).
Chakotay was already at a rank of Commander before he joined the Maqui... Janeway simply reinstated his authority as they both agreed to function as a SF crew and thanks to Prodigy we know he was promoted to Captain by SF after they returned to the AQ.

Only Janeway, Tuvok and Chakotay seemed to have (thus far) been promoted in-universe... we know from LD that Paris did not advance in rank (not sure about Torres - and would she want or need to?).
Kim probably would have accepted a fast track to Lt. Commander (Janeway likely stuck up for him as a way to maybe 'apologize' for not promoting him sooner).

I mean, with Kim not being promoted during his service on VOY... no one else on the ship got promoted either... sans Tuvok (and he ended up in Starfleet a SECOND time and we don't know how long he's held his ranks before he progressed further - though we know he advanced to Admiralty by the time of Pic S3).
 
Kim slept with an alien and ignored a whole slew of regulations. Janeway treated it as a serious breach of SF protocol (which she made absolutely clear and the situation was delicate at best given how untrustworthy some of the Varro were).

Harry was not the only person to fraternize with aliens. He was just the only one punished for it.

And in any case, it's irrelevant. Harry should have been a LTJG by the time Seven replaced Kes.

That is a perfectly valid excuse and a 'stain' on someone's record that could hinder their advancement.

Except Harry was under alien influence at the time. Funny how Janeway didn't ding herself for almost crushing the ship like a tin can in "Scientific Method". Or her own sexual dalliance in "Workforce".

Kim was lucky she didn't kick him off Bridge duty.

She didn't kick Tom off after "Thirty Days". Even though she had an adequate replacement.

People like to say how Kim got the raw end of the deal, and while I sympathize, he's lack of promotion (in-universe) DOES make partial sense when you consider all the stuff he did.

Harry made one significant mistake: he had a sexual relationship with an alien, and that happened while he was under alien influence. And beyond that, he provided seven years of superb service. And, Tom and Tuvok verify that an officer can change ranks without changing jobs. Ergo, Harry's lack of promotion makes no sense whatsoever.

In fairness, while I get that he should have been promoted a year or so after that... in 'Nightingale' he (again) meddled in an alien conflict and then became complicit by commanding that ship...

And Janeway was involved in it, so that's a push.
 
And just to reiterate... I'm not saying that his lack of advancement was right... I'm just trying to find some kind of in-universe explanation that would have justified it.
He should only need two years in grade. What did he do in the first two years to warrant a restriction, when a former criminal gets bumped to lieutenant?
 
He should only need two years in grade. What did he do in the first two years to warrant a restriction, when a former criminal gets bumped to lieutenant?

Both Paris and Torres had years of experience in their given areas... Kim was fresh out of the academy and didn't have experience in either engineering or piloting (that we know of).
My thinking here is they got their honorary bumps in ranks to fill in the empty slots, but then 'stalled' somewhat (the fact Paris didn't advance by the time we saw him in LD kinda supports this statement - though we don't know if the same happened with Torres).

Though by that analogy she should have given Kim a rank of Lt. junior grade in the episode 2 of Caretaker.

What did Kim do in the first 2 years to warrant a restriction?
Nothing in itself... except dying and being replaced by a duplicate in 'Deadlock' (but I don't think that Janeway was prejudiced against Kim for that - but also, no one really mourned the original dying to start with - so maybe he just didn't leave that much of a lasting impression).

In the first few years, Kim was mainly doing his duty... and while he may have exceeded expectations, we know from canon itself that people who just do their duty (even if they do it excellently and efficiently) but do nothing to 'stand out' don't necessarily progress further.

This happened to Picard in 'Tapestry' when he tried NOT taking risks and not fighting the Nausicaan and ended up 'stuck' at a rank of Lt. for decades.

As much as I like VOY, I don't think I saw Kim distinguish himself much from others until the end of Season 4 when Demon aired.
This is where Kim seemed to have started signing up more for certain assignments, but looking further down the list of episodes, except episode 'Night' at the start of Season 5, and possibly 'Timeless' (which technically doesn't count because it was Future Kim who did that - and it was ensign kim who transmitted the wrong phase corrections to VOY - though it was an honest mistake).
Then he had the 'Disease' episode which stained his record.

'Warhead' (end of S5) is where he distinguished himself - and this is probably where he could have been promoted, but it was a few months after Disease, so not sure if Janeway would have been that forgiving.

Then there was a relative 'lull' for Kim's duties until 'Childs' play' and 'Nightingale'... to be fair, Kim may have had 1 or 2 distinguishing moments a season (from season 4 onward) from what I can remember... which WOULD provide grounds for promotion but probably LATER than usual.

If Picard's 'Tapestry' alternate timeline was any indication, its possible that Kim just didn't have enough distinguishing moments in all 7 seasons to warrant a promotion while the ship was in the DQ (but he likely did get immediate promotion once the ship got back, and he became 'legendary' as did practically everyone on VOY).
 
Ok, back to PRO in French.
I wonder if this accident will affect viewership for the show when it is officially made available. I hope not.
It's not an accident! This is how Paramount handles its producers, fans and viewers. It has been a problem since Discovery was launched, region dependent release.
 
Full disclosure: I have access to the episodes and speak French at a native level (alas, I don’t know about taking screencaps). Only one episode in and I'm liking what I see. I'll post my tech-related observations in the Prodigy technology thread in the Trek Tech sub, but on THAT level there's been a lot to enjoy so far. :)

Mark
 
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Full disclosure: I have access to the episodes and speak French at a native level (alas, I don’t know about taking screencaps). Only one episode in and I'm liking what I see. I'll post my tech-related observations in the Prodigy technology thread in the Trek Tech sub, but on THAT level there's been a lot to enjoy so far. :)
I'm looking forward to that! I wonder if you notice any special French naming conventions compared to the English original.
Like, in the mirror episode, somebody says Starfleet (in English) amongst the French dialog. Caught me out.
 
Ok, back to PRO in French. We have a lovely "why wasn't Harry promoted" topic already.

I wonder if this accident will affect viewership for the show when it is officially made available. I hope not.

I would think there's hope it will affect it for the better if people are flocking to see S2 in a language they don't understand (it may just want them to get back to Prodigy when its released in a language they CAN understand - or at least have subtitles they can understand).
 
Anyway, PRO season 2.
Is the Infinity a genuine Starfleet ship, or a generic Federation vessel?
A cloaked shuttle in the secret bay 3

I'm looking forward to that! I wonder if you notice any special French naming conventions compared to the English original.
Like, in the mirror episode, somebody says Starfleet (in English) amongst the French dialog. Caught me out.
It seems that this mirror fleet is no longer called Starfleet, since they say it with disgust addressing the prime fleet. Just like Terrans used to say "Federation" with disgust. It could be a mistake like in 09 when the Fed was called armada :D
 
I would think there's hope it will affect it for the better if people are flocking to see S2 in a language they don't understand (it may just want them to get back to Prodigy when its released in a language they CAN understand - or at least have subtitles they can understand).

I don't think it's going to stop people from watching in their native languages at all, because it's brilliantly plotted and richly detailed, there are no controversial decisions that will turn people off, and it's filled with incredible canon references and Easter eggs that we'll probably need multiple rewatches to find.

There's been a lot of talk about how impressed people are that spoilers aren't really circulating in the mainstream, but honestly, how would you spoil this show? I don't think I can describe how the Solum problem gets solved without a whiteboard and a two-hour lecture. The journey is way more important than the destination in terms of where Janeway and the kids end up. Even basic questions like "is J/C canon?" don't have a straight answer. It's really masterfully done, and I'm a little mad that all Star Trek isn't written this tightly.
 
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