Because captains write reports.
What is your personal head canon?
- Thread starter AmandaSmith
- Start date
No, as it was--as you point out--a Starfleet assignment, so they (Starfleet) were aware of any potential risks of having even a single person travel back in time, but accepted said risks. This also applies to TAS' "Yesteryear", where the Guardian and various points in history were being officially studied.
That's not a violation, as it did not even fly over the border of sensitive, time-violating information. Saying Gary & Roberta would have interesting adventures is no more revealing than saying they would likely encounter rainy days and sunny days. The line moves no one in a particular direction, especially since Gary was on his own mission with directives in place before encountering Kirk and Company.
Which would be ridiculous on their part, as the majority of time travel during TOS were accidents:
"Tomorrow is Yesterday" - accident.
"The City on the Edge of Forever" - accident which was corrected to the Guardian's satisfaction (which carries far more weight than the judgements of anyone else, I imagine).
All Our Yesterdays" - accident (caused by heroism on Kirk's part when he heard a woman in distress).
Have you met bureaucrats? Rules are rules. Violations are violations. That is how it works.
I guess sheer paranoia would do.
Taking a night stroll through a park in a setting where time travel and time line rewrites are common:
'Look, that bench over there!'
'Yeah, what about it? That bench has been there for at least 25 years!'
'Yeah, I know, I well remember it from my childhood over 30 years ago.... but I still have the nagging feeling this wasn't the case yesterday!'
One thing that should be noted is that TOS has the weird suggestion in “Assignment: Earth” that the Enterprise is sent on pre-determined time travel missions for “historical research.”
So, at least at some point, the Federation (and by extension the Department of Temporal Investigations) was a-OK with time incursions to study the flow of history, even given the dangers of possible interaction and detection.
So the 17 temporal violations could be the result of a time when Starfleet was intentionally put in dangerous time travel situations by the powers that be for “research” until Federation policy shifted, and Kirk was having to do his best to make the best out of things when he encountered problems.
So, at least at some point, the Federation (and by extension the Department of Temporal Investigations) was a-OK with time incursions to study the flow of history, even given the dangers of possible interaction and detection.
So the 17 temporal violations could be the result of a time when Starfleet was intentionally put in dangerous time travel situations by the powers that be for “research” until Federation policy shifted, and Kirk was having to do his best to make the best out of things when he encountered problems.
Well, personally, I put more stock in what we see of Kirk's actions over the course of 30 years of ST adventures than the word of two bit characters created for a framing device on one humorous episode. YMMV.
I don't really consider this a contradiction, as what 90% of what we see from the DTI is ridiculous bureaucratic behavior. I see them demanding "No time travel without prior approval!" as something akin to your insurance company billing you for not getting preapproval for an ambulance ride when you're unconscious.
They can be as uptight about as they like, but if Kirk and his pals were not that crew, the DTI stuffed shirts may not even exist, if their families were on earth at the time of The Voyage Home.
Apparently, they were, so the DTI whining about "violations" sort of get tossed out of the window, since the Federation never ordered Kirk (or any of its members) not to ever travel in time after "The Naked Time" or "Tomorrow is Yesterday". You'd think the latter incident(s) would have sent DTI into fits--instead, the Federation wouold go on to authorize to time travel for research. Really, the DTI has barely a leg to stand on.
Which is why it makes more sense to just assume they didn't exist in the TOS era. Just as Starfleet got more restrictive about the Prime Directive in the TNG era, a similar thing happened with time travel restrictions. And I suppose the DTI just decided that all of their rules and procedures automatically applied retroactively across all eras. Otherwise people would be weaseling out of their "violations" by claiming they were from an era where the DTI didn't exist, so the rules didn't apply to them.
Archer is so lucky all but one of his time travels were caused by Daniels himself and all but one of those official journeys were authorized by Daniels' superiors.
I love how saving the world is a get out of jail free card and suffer zero consequences.
I love how saving the world is a get out of jail free card and suffer zero consequences.
There wasn't zero consequences. Kirk was demoted.
That had nothing to do with the time travel and only one charge was applied to Kirk, disobeying a direct order.
I love how saving the world is a get out of jail free card and suffer zero consequences.
Oh? I'm sure the Federation would not risk the kind of blow back it would receive in attempting to apply a severe punishment to the man who spearheaded the action which saved an entire world. Federation and/or Starfleet rules mean little if billions of one of its member species and their primary home were destroyed.
That was bad enough. The Federation owed Kirk their lives over and over again for always doing the right thing.
"Balance of Terror" was not a prime directive situation. The Romulans were a warp-capable civilization and already well aware of the existence of the Federation since they were previously at war. The order that Kirk broke during "Balance of Terror" was the order to stay out of the Neutral Zone.
The post of yours I quoted didn't specify time travel, so I responded based on that.
And ultimately, as commanding officer, Kirk is responsible for what they did. He did hatch the plan to steal the Enterprise, so it stands to reason Kirk would be the one to get the full blame.
The others were culpable because no officer would normally consider the theft and destruction of a starship as things Kirk could command with 'lawful orders'.
in Balance of Power:
>KIRK: my command orders on this subject are precise and inviolable. No act, no provocation will be considered sufficient reason to violate the zone. We may defend ourselves,
KIRK [OC]: But if necessary to avoid interspace war, Both these outposts and this vessel will be considered expendable. Captain out.
All starships and crew are expendable considering a greater danger to Earth.
>KIRK: Lieutenant Uhura, inform Command base, In my opinion, no option. On my responsibility, we are proceeding into the Neutral Zone. Steady as we go, Mister Sulu. Continue firing.
Kirk entered the NZ against the standing orders
And at the end of the episode we have:
>
RAND: We finally received an answer from Command base, sir. They say they'll support whatever decision you have to make.
So Starfleet can be reasonable (at least in the 23rd Century. 24th Century Starfleet seems more uptight and/or bureaucratic idk)
Star Trek III:>Admiral Morrow : No, Jim! The Enterprise would never stand the pounding and you know it.
Also III:
>Admiral Morrow : Jim, the Enterprise is 20 years old. We feel her day is over.
So Kirk stole and blew up what was, in Starfleet's books, already a piece of trash.
>Admiral Morrow : The council has ordered that no one but the science team goes to Genesis.
and Kruge took care of them. Anyway, then the planet exploded itself.
Nothing in Kirk and the gang's actions in III had any palpable consequences, plus the Feds got a free Bird-of-prey at the end of IV
All that plus saving the entire Earth from the Whale Probe, which no one else could. (AND BY MAKING A TIME TRAVEL, which he announced he would attempt in the Starfleet HQ's Jumbotron)
CONCLUSION I believe Kirk should have ben promoted to Ultradmiral
Maybe the Klingon Ambassador made the President sh*t his pants too much for that
>KIRK: my command orders on this subject are precise and inviolable. No act, no provocation will be considered sufficient reason to violate the zone. We may defend ourselves,
KIRK [OC]: But if necessary to avoid interspace war, Both these outposts and this vessel will be considered expendable. Captain out.
All starships and crew are expendable considering a greater danger to Earth.
>KIRK: Lieutenant Uhura, inform Command base, In my opinion, no option. On my responsibility, we are proceeding into the Neutral Zone. Steady as we go, Mister Sulu. Continue firing.
Kirk entered the NZ against the standing orders
And at the end of the episode we have:
>
RAND: We finally received an answer from Command base, sir. They say they'll support whatever decision you have to make.
So Starfleet can be reasonable (at least in the 23rd Century. 24th Century Starfleet seems more uptight and/or bureaucratic idk)
Star Trek III:>Admiral Morrow : No, Jim! The Enterprise would never stand the pounding and you know it.
Also III:
>Admiral Morrow : Jim, the Enterprise is 20 years old. We feel her day is over.
So Kirk stole and blew up what was, in Starfleet's books, already a piece of trash.
>Admiral Morrow : The council has ordered that no one but the science team goes to Genesis.
and Kruge took care of them. Anyway, then the planet exploded itself.
Nothing in Kirk and the gang's actions in III had any palpable consequences, plus the Feds got a free Bird-of-prey at the end of IV
All that plus saving the entire Earth from the Whale Probe, which no one else could. (AND BY MAKING A TIME TRAVEL, which he announced he would attempt in the Starfleet HQ's Jumbotron)
CONCLUSION I believe Kirk should have ben promoted to Ultradmiral
Maybe the Klingon Ambassador made the President sh*t his pants too much for that
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Sorry, the context was no consequences for time travel because of the "get out of jail free" card of saving Earth.
He could definitely have multiple violations attached to a single incident. He could also have violations in relation to dealings with other time travelers. Would retroactive (yeah, I know, since it's time we're talking about that means little) and not-applicable-at-the time charges count? I'm sure they would.
It could also be retconned to be 17 types of violations, not 17 discrete incidents.
Khan’s rule on Earth took place before the timelines diverged.
Although it is entirely possible that, in the Kelvin timeline, Earth was able to recover more records from Khan's time, records which painted a clearer picture of the monster Khan truly was.
So the massacres that surely DID occur under Khan's rule, would have come out.
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