Jessie Gender's rewatch of DISCO and what we think

[drt]

Of course he is, on the station. It's his command. Higher ranking officers don't just get to come in and bark orders unless they are within that chain of command.

That's normally how it works in the real world, but Star Trek usually goes with "highest ranking person present is in charge"

Like that one guy in "Second Sight" on DS9. I think they might have did that though just so the guy wouldn't outrank Sisko.

Which highlights another issue with Star Trek, a starship captain is almost always a full captain even for a small ship where a commander or even lower would be more logical. The "Second Sight" guy was an outlier, made even stranger because a Nebula class should definitely be a full captain-level post, which gives your thought that he wouldn't outrank Sisko weight. (Although, to be fair the writers may have intended Prometheus to be a smaller ship, but the production ended up making it a Nebula - probably so they could save money by using the Enterprise sets.)

 

[Cr0sis21]

Of course he is, on the station. It's his command. Higher ranking officers don't just get to come in and bark orders unless they are within that chain of command.

Yeah, I guess in reality.
But most of the viewing audience isn't familiar with the intricacies of naval command procedures. So it would have been simpler to just make him Captain Sisko from day 1.

Still, it worked out fine in the end.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, I guess in reality.
But most of the viewing audience isn't familiar with the intricacies of naval command procedures. So it would have been simpler to just make him Captain Sisko from day 1.

Still, it worked out fine in the end.

But against previously established lore.

 

[Cr0sis21]

But against previously established lore.

Nothing out and out stated, though.

We've had commanders in charge of stations and we've had commodores. Nothing on screen ever established what the hierarchy ought to be.
And the optics of making the first Black lead in Trek a lower rank than the other two white leads were not great, either.

As I've stated before, narratively it did nothing but call attention to something that detracted from the story being told. And the writers have stated that they hated him being a Commander to boot.

 

[fireproof78]

Nothing out and out stated, though.

We've had commanders in charge of stations and we've had commodores. Nothing on screen ever established what the hierarchy ought to be.
And the optics of making the first Black lead in Trek a lower rank than the other two white leads were not great, either.

As I've stated before, narratively it did nothing but call attention to something that detracted from the story being told. And the writers have stated that they hated him being a Commander to boot.

In TNG era all station commanders were commanders. So, it tracked with what people would have seen previously. It's internally consistent, and the fact that external factors might make it "look bad" doesn't mean it should change.

He got his promotion. DS9 was established as a lesser assignment, that was essentially viewed as "career suicide" at the beginning of the show. So, giving it to a captain would appear like his superiors had no confidence in a higher ranking officer. So, it looks bad either way.

I found it consistent with what TNG had established, which I thought was supposed to be a plus. Now, it's not...

 

[Cr0sis21]

In TNG era all station commanders were commanders. So, it tracked with what people would have seen previously. It's internally consistent, and the fact that external factors might make it "look bad" doesn't mean it should change.

He got his promotion. DS9 was established as a lesser assignment, that was essentially viewed as "career suicide" at the beginning of the show. So, giving it to a captain would appear like his superiors had no confidence in a higher ranking officer. So, it looks bad either way.

I found it consistent with what TNG had established, which I thought was supposed to be a plus. Now, it's not...

What TNG established was that the command structure for stations was fluid. That's all.
And DS9 was never established as a lesser assignment. Picard was heavily invested in it. The Federation was heavily invested in it. Bashir specifically chose it. The only people who were unhappy with it were the ones with families who wanted a nicer locale for their kids. It certainly wasn't because it was considered "career suicide".

 

[fireproof78]

What TNG established was that the command structure for stations was fluid. That's all.

Really? I saw commanders the most common ranking officer of a station with the few TNG episodes I watched.

And DS9 was never established as a lesser assignment. Picard was heavily invested in it. The Federation was heavily invested in it. Bashir specifically chose it. The only people who were unhappy with it were the ones with families who wanted a nicer locale for their kids. It certainly wasn't because it was considered "career suicide".

Fair. I'm conflating my memory.

Still, a commander in charge of a station is consistent with lore. That much doesn't bother me.

 

[Cr0sis21]

Really? I saw commanders the most common ranking officer of a station with the few TNG episodes I watched.


Fair. I'm conflating my memory.

Still, a commander in charge of a station is consistent with lore. That much doesn't bother me.

It didn't bother me until later, when I looked back at initial reactions I hadn't paid attention to as a kid, and Sisko was consistently portrayed as less-than in articles because of his rank.

 

[fireproof78]

It didn't bother me until later, when I looked back at initial reactions I hadn't paid attention to as a kid, and Sisko was consistently portrayed as less-than in articles because of his rank.

That's on the people writing the articles, not the presentation in the story. If we claim that consistent lore is important, the this rank shouldn't be an issue because people make it an issue outside of the story.

Again, and again I have to go back to "Does it make sense inside the story?" Being a commander of a station makes sense. Now, if you want to work inside the story and say "Well, the discovery of the wormhole made it a bigger job, and thus he gets a promotion for that job" fine and good. But, I can't get onboard with this being changed because of perception.

 

[Jayson1]

Of course he is, on the station. It's his command. Higher ranking officers don't just get to come in and bark orders unless they are within that chain of command.

They explored this idea a few times as well in Trek. At least twice on TNG they went with the line "Your in control of the mission. Picard stays in command of the ship." When a Admiral has shown up.

 

[fireproof78]

They explored this idea a few times as well in Trek. At least twice on TNG they went with the line "Your in control of the mission. Picard stays in command of the ship." When a Admiral has shown up.

Because that's how chains of command are to work. That's why Kirk could become captain in Star Trek 2009; Pike placed him in the chain kf command as first officer. In so doing, Kirk was eligible to move up within that chain.

Yes, a superior ranking officer can attempt to insert themselves but the situation is such that both his superior and the commanding officer of the chain interfered with will have a shit ton to say about it.

 

[Jayson1]

It didn't bother me until later, when I looked back at initial reactions I hadn't paid attention to as a kid, and Sisko was consistently portrayed as less-than in articles because of his rank.

Lots of those kind of articles are written by people who don't understand Sci-FI much Star Trek. Lots of their views are trite and simplistic at best. No doubt just doing a job,I am sure as best they can, but they don't really know the subject matter.

 

[Charles Phipps]

What TNG established was that the command structure for stations was fluid. That's all.
And DS9 was never established as a lesser assignment. Picard was heavily invested in it. The Federation was heavily invested in it. Bashir specifically chose it. The only people who were unhappy with it were the ones with families who wanted a nicer locale for their kids. It certainly wasn't because it was considered "career suicide".

I mentioned this earlier but the fact is that the NARRATIVE is that this is a backwater assignment that is a dead end to Sisko's career. It is NOT a prestigious post to be on Bajor and he's throwing his career away because he's suffering PTSD. Your reading is the exact opposite of the one I took it.

Of course, part of the joke is he's "just" a Commander and then named Bajoran Jesus.

 

[Cr0sis21]

I mentioned this earlier but the fact is that the NARRATIVE is that this is a backwater assignment that is a dead end to Sisko's career. It is NOT a prestigious post to be on Bajor and he's throwing his career away because he's suffering PTSD. Your reading is the exact opposite of the one I took it.

Of course, part of the joke is he's "just" a Commander and then named Bajoran Jesus.

I guess it really is up to interpretation. I saw it as: Is it a difficult assignment? Yes. Is it dead-end? I never thought so. Dead-end, to me, was more like where we see Carol Freeman in Lower Decks. Captain of a second-rate ship with low-stakes missions. On the other hand, if Sisko completes his assignment he brings a whole new world into the Federation. Yes, the station was in shambles at first, but by the end of the first hour it was already hustling and bustling again.
To me, a dead-end job would be one with no stakes and no chances to prove yourself. Even before becoming the Emissary, even before the wormhole, Bajor was very important because of its strategic placement near a hostile species. The only reason it seemed dead-end is because of how Sisko viewed it, but THAT was a result of his PTSD. Remember, he didn't accept the assignment at first. Picard was going to find a replacement for him, and Sisko has to beg him off of that at the end of Emissary. Every other person had no issue with the assignment, except O'Brien saying KEIKO didn't like the station.

 

[fireproof78]

To me, a dead-end job would be one with no stakes and no chances to prove yourself.

Except, even Picard ended up dead ended in Tapestry on the Enterprise D.

If Sisko found it a dead end, or "dismal" as Q described it, then it was.

 

[Cr0sis21]

Except, even Picard ended up dead ended in Tapestry on the Enterprise D.

If Sisko found it a dead end, or "dismal" as Q described it, then it was.

Eh, dismal is a visual descriptor. And it was dismal. From a human perspective. Cardassians thought it was great, though.
And I'm still not sure where people are getting the "dead-end" idea from. Sisko's complaint was that it wasn't an ideal place to raise his son. And from what he'd seen, with the looting and the broken-down locale, it wasn't.
But he never indicated he thought it was dead-end.

 

[fireproof78]

Eh, dismal is a visual descriptor. And it was dismal. From a human perspective. Cardassians thought it was great, though.
And I'm still not sure where people are getting the "dead-end" idea from. Sisko's complaint was that it wasn't an ideal place to raise his son. And from what he'd seen, with the looting and the broken-down locale, it wasn't.
But he never indicated he thought it was dead-end.

Ok. Doesn't make it so.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Well Sisko let Picard know he was retiring after its fulfillment I'm pretty sure it could be that its career prospects might have been irrelevant.

 

[Tuskin38]

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[Tuskin38]

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