Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
- Start date
I didn't feel this needed its own topic, so I'll just ask here...
In 'Thor', Odin puts a spell on Mjolnir that states that whoever is worthy, can lift Mjolnir and have the powers of Thor.
Did that mean that before that moment, anyone could use it? I'm not well known with the comics so I have no clue how it works there. I mean, we know everyone can lift and use Stormbreaker because it was never enchanted like Mjolnir. It just got me thinking.
In 'Thor', Odin puts a spell on Mjolnir that states that whoever is worthy, can lift Mjolnir and have the powers of Thor.
Did that mean that before that moment, anyone could use it? I'm not well known with the comics so I have no clue how it works there. I mean, we know everyone can lift and use Stormbreaker because it was never enchanted like Mjolnir. It just got me thinking.
In the movies it seems this is the case. I'm not sure about the comics, I've to look into this.
I think you are correct. From that moment only those who proved themselves worthy could lift the hammer. Fan speculation was that Captain America could lift the hammer in Age of Ultron but chose not to out of respect for Thor.
I always thought the idea was that prior to the enchantment anyone could pick up Mjolnir but doing so would not automatically give them the power of Thor. Iow, the enchantment tied Thor's power to Mjolnir in a way that wasn't the case previously because that was how Odin's lesson worked.
These days it's assumed to be about the ability to lift the hammer, but the actual phrase is "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." Originally, the idea was that Donald Blake used the hammer (disguised as a walking stick) to transform into Thor, to possess his power, so presumably anyone else who was worthy enough would also transform into Thor if they held the stick/hammer. But then it got retconned that Donald Blake had been Thor all along, transformed by Odin into a fictitious mortal to teach him a lesson, so that kind of inverted the meaning of the incantation so that lifting the hammer was the result of the enchantment, rather than the trigger for the result of transforming into Thor.
Although the original meaning was brought back for Jane Foster's transformation into The Mighty Thor.
That meaning is still there in the MCU movies. In the original movie, Odin takes Thor's powers away until he proves himself worthy. Only then is he able to summon the hammer and regain his powers. Afterward, Thor does not lose his powers when not holding the hammer, although it seems that others do lose the power in a manner similar to the old style Donald Blake stories.
It's been years now since I watched Endgame, but I seem to recall Cap gaining power when he held the hammer. And of course, Jane Foster as you mentioned.
Yeah, but he still is Thor, which is a change from what Stan Lee evidently intended it to mean when he originally wrote it.
More to the point, the incantation doesn't actually say "Only a worthy person can lift the hammer off the ground" -- it says "Only a worthy person will gain the power of Thor when they hold the hammer." So the idea that nobody can lift it without being worthy is something of a retcon, or at least is not inherent in the wording. Unless you take it to mean that only someone with the power of Thor will be strong enough to lift it. But its unliftability has always been portrayed more as an enchantment than a matter of mere heaviness. (The fact that Thor could hang it on Jane's coathook without tearing it off the wall proves that.)
Basically, yeah. Though what lifting Mjolnir did for anyone that wasn't a powerful Asgardian before the enchantment is an open question, since as has been noted; Odin's enchantment also made the hammer the key to accessing the powers of Thor.
They established in 'Ragnarok' that Mjolnir was never a source of power, but a tool to channel and control that of the god wielding it, like Thor or Hela before him. So one might presume that for a "normal" person to pick it up prior to Thor's exile; it was neither a feat, not did it empower them.
So assuming that's correct: if for example the likes of Nick Fury, or Steve Rogers picked it up, it would have just been a big inert hammer. While on the other hand if say Carol Danvers, or Peter Quill, or basically any of the Eternals had picked it up, they would likely have been able to use it to channel and focus their respective cosmic powers through it . . . but not Thor's.
It's also possible that any moral trying to use it would fare about as well as they would trying to hold the power stone.
As for Stormbreaker: pretty sure anyone can pick it up. Wielding it effectively on the other hand . . . I'm less sure about.
Last edited:
Well, there's an enchantment, just not that one?
But Steve did pick it up used the powers of Thor. In Endgame. Or well, atleast the lightning, having Mjolnir return to him etc.
Right . . . AFTER Oden had placed the enchantment on it. That's kinda the whole point.
Right, I see what you mean now.
Question for ya"ll.
In the MCU, are the Asgardians (such as Thor, Loki etc) actually gods, or merely physiologically enhanced mortals with magic and long lifespans? (and what is the difference?)
I remember Odin saying something to that effect in either Thor or Dark World but the later avengers films treat Thor and Valkyrie as gods.
L&T suggests that Zeus considers Asgardians to be "wannabe gods"
In the MCU, are the Asgardians (such as Thor, Loki etc) actually gods, or merely physiologically enhanced mortals with magic and long lifespans? (and what is the difference?)
I remember Odin saying something to that effect in either Thor or Dark World but the later avengers films treat Thor and Valkyrie as gods.
L&T suggests that Zeus considers Asgardians to be "wannabe gods"
In terms of pre-MCU Zeus and Odin were pretty much the same kind of entity and the same kind of "god". They had their own 'afterlife' and unique 'zones' outside of the normal earth/human realms.
In the MCU right now... I'm not entirely sure. There have been times the aspect of "gods" in the Marvel comics has varied from writer to writer. Sometimes it was used just for beings that drew 'strength' from having followers. Sometimes it referred to power and the abilities of the group/being.
I think in the MCU Asgardians are more 'cosmic beings' than the 'gods' they were sometimes(maybe majority of the time) presented as in the comics.
Galactus is a cosmic being and stronger than many other "gods" so its not necessarily about strength.