Thoughts about a TOS revival with AI technology

[Relayer1]

It would not have to be all computer gen…actors could supply motion capture after looking at TOS and getting a feel.

There's milage here. Using this tech, a showrunner and a couple of experienced writers working alongside a similarly talented but skeleton production crew could scene by scene create some great episodes at a fraction of the cost it would currently take. Not entirely automated, but utilising AI creatively.

I'm hoping for something like this for the missing Doctor Who episodes.

 

[BK613]

and they were visualized by AI

You know that would probably include the crappy TOS-R stuff, so no thanks...

 

[Warped9]

You know that would probably include the crappy TOS-R stuff, so no thanks...

Not necessarily if you can narrow the parameters of what it could access.

 

[publiusr]

The novels would be a good place to start. Christopher’s work with OTOY level effects…easily a winner in my book.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

AI is turning out to be gross and disgusting. The flaws in its video are not charming, and when the animation is convincing, the implications are terrifying.

• False accusations and political propaganda will take the form of convincing video. Even among intelligent people— when they see an AI smear campaign, the best they can say is, "I don't know if you're a rapist." AI-generated video "evidence" can put a nasty cloud over anyone. All it takes is doubt, and the innocent are harmed.

• Actual wrong-doing caught on video, from street crime to genocide, will be brushed aside with the insistence that it's fake. Monsters have no reputation to lose. For them, doubt is a win.

• If writers and artists become "too expensive" in comparison to computer fakery, human skills will atrophy and fade away. It took our entire history of cumulative experience, handed down from teachers to students, to make the artists who made our culture. And the chain can be broken in one generation.

 

[Mr. Spook]

There are already social media ads with "celebrities" endorsing products that don't work. John Goodman's image is being used to boost a weight loss regimen that doesn't work.

On the other hand, it's really a shame they didn't have this technology when they made Rogue One. We wouldn't have had to tolerate the grotesque CGI Peter Cushing for an entire movie.

 

[Warped9]

AI is turning out to be gross and disgusting. The flaws in its video are not charming, and when the animation is convincing, the implications are terrifying.

• False accusations and political propaganda will take the form of convincing video. Even among intelligent people— when they see an AI smear campaign, the best they can say is, "I don't know if you're a rapist." AI-generated video "evidence" can put a nasty cloud over anyone. All it takes is doubt, and the innocent are harmed.

• Actual wrong-doing caught on video, from street crime to genocide, will be brushed aside with the insistence that it's fake. Monsters have no reputation to lose. For them, doubt is a win.

• If writers and artists become "too expensive" in comparison to computer fakery, human skills will atrophy and fade away. It took our entire history of cumulative experience, handed down from teachers to students, to make the artists who made our culture. And the chain can be broken in one generation.

These things are already being discussed. While here in this forum we are discussing possibilities the broader implications of this technology are indeed unsettling. Fake manufactured evidence is nothing new and has been used for easily more than a hundred years and likely much longer, but AI could make it even more difficult to detect.

Curiously TOS could be said to have even predicted it in an indirect way. In “Court Martial” the Enterprise’s bridge visual transcript was altered by Finney to implicate Kirk in Finney’s “death.” In the episode it’s never discussed exactly how this was done, but by today’s perspective it’s not hard to imagine how it could be done.

 

[F. King Daniel]

AI is turning out to be gross and disgusting. The flaws in its video are not charming, and when the animation is convincing, the implications are terrifying.

• False accusations and political propaganda will take the form of convincing video. Even among intelligent people— when they see an AI smear campaign, the best they can say is, "I don't know if you're a rapist." AI-generated video "evidence" can put a nasty cloud over anyone. All it takes is doubt, and the innocent are harmed.

• Actual wrong-doing caught on video, from street crime to genocide, will be brushed aside with the insistence that it's fake. Monsters have no reputation to lose. For them, doubt is a win.

• If writers and artists become "too expensive" in comparison to computer fakery, human skills will atrophy and fade away. It took our entire history of cumulative experience, handed down from teachers to students, to make the artists who made our culture. And the chain can be broken in one generation.

I believe the current AI models are limited to one angle, although I'm sure this is the new "fingers". For a little while at least, "real life" will need to be proven with 2 matching angles.

 

[publiusr]

The newer footage of of a cat playing with a sleeper's nose has that figure seemingly missing an arm.

Good for horror...

 

[Redfern]

Curiously TOS could be said to have even predicted it in an indirect way. In “Court Martial” the Enterprise’s bridge visual transcript was altered by Finney to implicate Kirk in Finney’s “death.” In the episode it’s never discussed exactly how this was done, but by today’s perspective it’s not hard to imagine how it could be done.

Because they don't state how Finney achieved it in the narrative, the general idea doesn't become dated (not as fast, anyway). Smart move on the part of the writers and editors. At the time of its airing, I bet casual audiences assumed Finney literally filmed his own hand pressing his own hand pressing the "eject" button on a fake command chair and somehow spliced that footage into the official records...also documented with conventional celluloid movie cameras.

 

[mb22]

In "The Menagerie" (the illusory) Mendez accuses Spock of faking the viewscreen presentation of Pike on the bridge 13 years earlier, though as in "Court Martial" no details are given. Earlier in the episode we do see Spock simulating Kirk's voice using computers.

 

[Etbj SMY]

In "The Menagerie" (the illusory) Mendez accuses Spock of faking the viewscreen presentation of Pike on the bridge 13 years earlier.

Which in a sense is a ENTERPRISE INCIDENT-style plot-ruse......meaning things are not out of control or uncharacteristic as they seem. Spock seems off in both, but is acting with basic hidden logic, with secret help from Kirk and the fake Mendez.

 

[Ragitsu]

You can duplicate many elements of a work of art, but you cannot duplicate a zeitgeist. Well...you can certainly try to recreate the spirit characteristic of a decade, but that takes much observation, genuine effort and skill; however, even if enough folks were willing, they'd have to put up with contemporary politics. Good luck with that endeavor.

 

[BK613]

Because they don't state how Finney achieved it in the narrative, the general idea doesn't become dated (not as fast, anyway). Smart move on the part of the writers and editors. At the time of its airing, I bet casual audiences assumed Finney literally filmed his own hand pressing his own hand pressing the "eject" button on a fake command chair and somehow spliced that footage into the official records...also documented with conventional celluloid movie cameras.

Honestly I've never thought he did anything but managed to edit out the portion where Kirk takes the ship to red alert, the trickery being that it looked seamless.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Honestly I've never thought he did anything but managed to edit out the portion where Kirk takes the ship to red alert, the trickery being that it looked seamless.

Yeah, I think the show's unspoken intention was that Finney tampered to edit a video tape, and to keep the ship's computer, which catalogs such tapes, from crying foul. He cut out the move to Red Alert, and then just had to electronically darken the Yellow Alert indicator and brighten the Red Alert.
https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/al...n1/114-court-martial/court-martial-br-365.jpg

But "The Menagerie" scene where Mendez accuses Spock of "manufacturing" an elaborate Pike video could only be Star Trek somehow predicting the deep fake, at a time when the public didn't even have digital music yet, to say nothing of digital video.

 

[Redfern]

Honestly I've never thought he did anything but managed to edit out the portion where Kirk takes the ship to red alert, the trickery being that it looked seamless.

Yeah, I think the show's unspoken intention was that Finney tampered to edit a video tape, and to keep the ship's computer, which catalogs such tapes, from crying foul. He cut out the move to Red Alert, and then just had to electronically darken the Yellow Alert indicator and brighten the Red Alert.

D'OH!!! You guys are right! I haven't seen the episode in ages and "mandela'd" the sequence. That WAS meant to be the genuine Kirk's hand and Finney simply clipped a few frames.

 

[Quantum21]

The recent news about Shatner being ok with an AI version of himself after he passes got me thinking more about this. There may come a time when they can possibly, literally produce more "in the style of TOS" new episodes of the original show using AI.

I didn't start this thread to debate the technological feasibility of such a thing but moreso to discuss iF it can ever be done convincingly (and its well done) what would hardcore TOS fans feel about it? This would be assuming the actors estate would agree to it.

For me personally, I would be OK with it but only in a limited fashion. For example , using real actors and different characters set in the TOS era with some AI "cameo" appearances from TOS legacy characters in their original likeness. Or perhaps in a time travel type of storyline with a TOS character being in the mix. Similar to DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" but with newly created AI "footage " involving TOS characters.

I however would not want to see "new" episodes of TOS ( music, style and all) being AI manufactured just as if they continued on from Turnabout Intruder.

I would be interested in hearing what most hardcore "older generation " trek fans would feel about it. And If it would be a negative opinion , would you go as far as saying this would "tarnish" TOS in your eyes?

Would it harm/change/ have no effect/ enhance the legacy of classic trek for you or for future generations of fans?

I don't see why, SNW does a better job of updating the era instead of some pointless retread.

 

[Warped9]

SNW does a better job of updating the era instead of some pointless retread.

I just hacked out a lung.

 

[fireproof78]

I just hacked out a lung.

That's why you have two.

 

[Ragitsu]

I don't see why, SNW does a better job of updating the era instead of some pointless retread.

Isn't the point - at least, in part - to create a continuation that doesn't feel updated?