Spoilers All Things STAR WARS - News, Speculation & Spoilers Thread

[JD]

A lot of people tend to categorize Star Wars as sci-fi, but over the last few years I've started reading and watching more fantasy, and it made me realize that SW really is more fantasy than sci-fi. It plays into a lot more of the fantasy tropes than sci-fi, the bad guys are Dark Lords, which is a term you see used in a lot of fantasy, the Jedi are not only "knights" but also wizards thanks to the Force basically being magic.

 

[fireproof78]

A lot of people tend to categorize Star Wars as sci-fi, but over the last few years I've started reading and watching more fantasy, and it made me realize that SW really is more fantasy than sci-fi. It plays into a lot more of the fantasy tropes than sci-fi, the bad guys are Dark Lords, which is a term you see used in a lot of fantasy, the Jedi are not only "knights" but also wizards thanks to the Force basically being magic.

Yup. It's a lot of fun to realize it's more fantasy.

 

[Set Harth]

"Star Wars is space fantasy" has been a thing since back in the day.

It said it right on the comic book in 1977:

 

[fireproof78]

"Star Wars is space fantasy" has been a thing since back in the day.

It said it right on the comic book in 1977:

And for those eho don't read comics?

Not everyone realizes it, especially when the opening shot is a massive space ship.

 

[Set Harth]

And for those eho don't read comics?

I guess we have internet fora for that.

"SW is fantasy" was often heard on the internet in the 2000's.

 

[fireproof78]

I guess we have internet fora for that.

"SW is fantasy" was often heard on the internet in the 2000's.

Sure but not everyone did that with Star Wars. Plus the books are often put in the science fiction section of the library and book store.

It might be common but the common perception of scifi is far more prevalent. I can see the confusion easily. Plus, all the tech manuals like Star Trek gives it a different air than fantasy. When did you last see a tech manual on the construction of a fantasy sword?

 

[Set Harth]

I have to admit I saw it as sci-fi myself in the early days.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Authors in Starlog characterized the first film as "science-fantasy" (and so the editors tacitly approved of that characterization).

 

[Commander Troi]

Star Wars is Pulp Space Opera.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

And for those eho don't read comics?

Not everyone realizes it, especially when the opening shot is a massive space ship.

Ah, but "science-fantasy" or "space-fantasy" was a term used to describe Star Wars, especially in the 1977-'79 era, not only on the banner of Marvel's monthly comic (and the publisher's one-shot novels, tabloid-sized comics, etc.), but by numerous journalists who reviewed the film, or articles in magazines of the period. The original trailer's narration using "The story of a boy, and a girl and a universe..." shows its Old World fantasy inspiration because the film was created to be a mix of fantasy and sci-fi.

 

[fireproof78]

Ah, but "science-fantasy" or "space-fantasy" was a term used to describe Star Wars, especially in the 1977-'79 era, not only on the banner of Marvel's monthly comic (and the publisher's one-shot novels, tabloid-sized comics, etc.), but by numerous journalists who reviewed the film, or articles in magazines of the period. The original trailer's narration using "The story of a boy, and a girl and a universe..." shows its Old World fantasy inspiration because the film was created to be a mix of fantasy and sci-fi.

Cool.

That doesn't make everyone familiar with the term. I certainly have not read everything from that era, nor do I feel the inclination to do so at this point. I game to regard Star Wars as more fantasy after I studied literature more in high school back in the 90s. But, the trappings were pushing as much with scifi as space fantasy.

More to the point, I don't fault anyone for not thinking "fantasy" who was not there for the original run of Star wars.

 

[Skywalker]

The pre-Disney EU, especially the novels, treated Star Wars much more like straight sci-fi versus the pulpy mythic fantasy it's meant to be. It really started with the Thrawn trilogy, as Timothy Zahn was primarily known for his military science fiction prior to writing for Star Wars, and he brought of a lot of those sensibilities to the books. Of course the "hardness" of the sci-fi trappings varied from author to author, but it was part of the EU's DNA from the beginning.

 

[JD]

Yeah, I had a fair amount of experience with the old EU and that definitely leaned more into the sci-fi direction, which is part of where I started thinking of it as more straight sci-fi. It wasn't until more recently, when I started getting more into fantasy, that I recognized those elements of it.

 

[Reverend]

"Science Fantasy Fairytale" is what Star Wars is in narrative constriction and framing terms.
Stylistically Star Wars is whatever a given story needs it to be, in whole or in part: Pulp Space Adventure. Old West/Samurai. Geo-political anti-war/anti-totalitarianism allegory. Fairy tale. Living Mythology. Tech-Noir Quasi Cyberpunk Murder Mystery. Pulp Horror. War Drama. Political Thriller. Really Really Bad Romance Novella. The applicable genres and combinations are endless, and that's the franchise's greatest strength.

 

[Ithekro]

Massive tone differences, but same setting. And it still works. For the most part as long as the lived in look holds with droids, blasters, and the Force (optional), or known aliens, and it still works.

 

[Reverend]

Massive tone differences, but same setting. And it still works. For the most part as long as the lived in look holds with droids, blasters, and the Force (optional), or known aliens, and it still works.

I think too may fans overemphasise the indispensability of the "lived in look" as a core component. So far as the first movie was concerned, it was only Tattooine and the Falcon that really showcased that. The Death Star was mostly spick and span (trash compactor notwithstanding), as was the blockade runner (even the engineering passages were basically spotless, if poorly lit.) See Also: Cloud City, the rebel medical frigate surgical bay and the parts of Echo base that were actual rooms, not just ice tunnels. It even extends to the ships and costumes with the TIEs being clean as a whistle, and many of the military uniforms (rebels included) mostly seemingly un-distressed and well laundered.

I think it's better to say that Star Wars *has* a lived in look at times, but not *every* location has to look like it's been dragged arse-backwards though a swamp and left out in a desert canyon for a month; just when it makes sense.
For example; it makes sense that Tattooine looks VERY lived in. It's a shithole. It makes sense that the Senate building looks immaculate; it's the seat of power for the whole galaxy!

Of course at the time nobody had even done that much before, so it's not surprising it's part of what made it stand out at the time.

Also I suppose there's really to aspects to that term which may be conflated. On the one hand you have the literal the beat-up, asymmetricality, and healthy coating of Fuller's earth of it all. But you also have the implied history of the world itself; very little besides the Empire is new. Old ships, old buildings, old temples. Different though, though not 100% unrelated.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Also in SW77, the Rebel fighter pilot helmets looked like they'd been around.

 

[Ithekro]

Unlike in a lot of early science fiction films, for Star Wars, places that should look used, did look used, and places that should be clean looked clean. Like they would if they were real places. "Lived in look" does not mean "grimy" it means that it looks like it should look given the purpose, age, and level of inhabitation.

 

[fireproof78]

Unlike in a lot of early science fiction films, for Star Wars, places that should look used, did look used, and places that should be clean looked clean. Like they would if they were real places. "Lived in look" does not mean "grimy" it means that it looks like it should look given the purpose, age, and level of inhabitation.

Which is why they used si much WW2 surplus. That stuff had been around

 

[Reverend]

^ ETA: and this is what happens when I leave a tab open for a while after typing a bit, get distracted, come back, finish the thought, than then hit send without bothering to refresh the page!

Also in SW77, the Rebel fighter pilot helmets looked like they'd been around.

Yup. All the rebel equipment (including the ships and the older pilots/generals) were intended to look like they were surplus leftovers from an old war. Presumably the Clone Wars, but Lucas probably didn't define it that narrowly at the time, since it's the feel of it is that mattered. Also keep in mind that at this point, it's not like the rebellion is a new thing; they've clearly meant to have been at this for a while, and unlike the Empire they don't have the time, personnel or resources to keep all of the flight equipment looking factory new since they'd struggle to keep most things just functional at all.