Cannon did give us one of the best action film themes of the '80s. I mean, you can play this while you clip your toenails and somehow it'll seem like you're doing the most important thing on the planet.
DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
There are already studios that work that way now to great success, such as A24 and Blumhouse. The problem is that I doubt the Big Companies would be satisfied long-term with making "only" $100m profit per movie. They always want to push for more, and they seem to think that the only way to do that (barring the occasional lightning in a bottle) is to bump those budgets.
It would be beneficial to remember that greed is a powerful motivation and fear of missing out will drive companies to look at the short term benefits.
Or, why people go in to credit card debt.
Or, why people go in to credit card debt.
I enjoyed it more than Black Adam. I was irritated with the nonsensical role of the Justice Society in Black Adam. Also, I found Black Adam's editing very distracting
My favorite part of Black Adam was Pierce Brosnan as Dr. Fate and Aldis Hodge as Hawkman, and I loved the Superman end credits scene cameo.
I was annoyed the killed off the Pierce Brosnan version of Dr. Fate as I really liked how he played the character.
I also would have gone to a Black Adam vs Superman film; but yeah once the film underperformed at the BO; and the fired Henry Cavill as Superman (after having him announce he'd be returning post Black Adam); and then they announced James Gunn would be rebooting the DCEU - and they'd be editing out the majority of cameo appearances by the other characters in the remaining DCEU films in post production at the time, and that most likely (which now turns out to be true); all the DC main hero characters would be recast.
^^^
It pretty much killed my interest in the remaining DCEU films after Black Adam.
Me too. It felt as if we were coming in on something like the sixth movie in a long-running Justice Society series, and it made me really want to see those first five movies.
Makes no difference to me. I mean, this isn't really a unified series, it's a set of standalone movies that share a common setting. The interconnections are secondary to the value of the individual movies, as they always should be. But it's particularly the case with the DCEU post-Justice League, where most of the films have been very distinct from each other in style and focus and have had only background elements and the odd cameo connecting them. And I feel that the films that have focused on telling their own stories have been better than the films that split their focus by trying to be setups or teases for later films. So what matters to me is only whether I like each film on its own merits. Whether it sets up future films or not is incidental. If a movie is the last film in the continuity, that's no reason not to watch it. Something's gotta be last.
Just rewatched The Flash. I liked it better the second time, warts and all. Only real downside was the reminder of less Supergirl than I’d hoped for at my initial viewing. It’s not top tier filmmaking, but it’s entertaining in its own right. That’s all I ask from superhero movies. Sometimes I get more than merely entertainment (Man of Steel, The Dark Knight, and Winter Soldier come to mind) but entertainment is enough at the end of a tiring day. Still a bit miffed at the ending of this continuity but I’m sure there’ll be something entertaining (perhaps even more) in the next one.
I just came across this thread and realized that this post from the Marvel thread actually belongs here:
1) MOS - met expectations. Made a lot more money than the previous Superman movie (Returns). A lot of people noisily complained about the violence/destruction and WB clearly listened leading to...
2) BvS - just below expectations but seemingly profitable. A movie bringing together the two best known characters in comic book history was probably expected to do Avengers level numbers. This didn't quite get there, but it still made a lot of money. Not a flop.
3) Suicide Squad - Way outperformed expectations. Made a huge profit despite middling reviews and generally negative public reaction. Also started all the rumors of WB meddling in movies as movie tone was changed post filming.
4) Wonder Woman - Mega hit. Successful at the box office, with critics, and with audiences.
5) Justice League - Made significant money, but still probably a loss. $661,324,295 worldwide is no joke - but a Justice League movie was definitely expected to do numbers comparable to Avengers movies. After all, this was the next appearance of Wonder Woman - and he solo movie made $822,963,408 worldwide. The movie also saw negative reviews on average. The worst thing to happen though was how this movie took studio meddling rumors (some confirmed) to a new level, with extensive reshoots changing the tone of the movie with a new director. The new tone didn't seem to match what came before.
Still, at this point the DCEU was 5/5 without a MAJOR flop, and arguably with only 2 box office "disappointments".
6) Aquaman - HUGE surprise hit. An unbelievable $1,151,961,807 worldwide gross. Anyone predicted $1,151,961,807 making more money than Superman, WW and especially the entire JUSTICE LEAGUE?
7) Shazam - Did ok enough at the box office to get a sequel. Generally liked by audience. Not a hit. Not a flop.
8) We're including Joker? Ok, another HUGE somewhat surprising mega hit.
9) Birds of Prey - Did the wheels start falling off here? Just $205,358,461 on an $84,500,000 budget. Not some kind of spectacular flop, but surely the studio expected more? Suicide Squad was a super hit at the box office, and many analysts ascribed that to Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn. Well, SS made $749,200,054 worldwide.
10) WW1984 - Can't judge the box office - it came out during the brutal winter covid wave and was released on HBO at the same time. Didn't do to well compared to some other day and date WB movies that came later, but this one was first and thus isn't fairly comparable to anything. So all we have to talk about is critical and viewer sentiment. 58% on RT and 5.4 on IMDB. Not scientific measurements in the slightest, but still definitely pointing to a negative audience and critical reaction - matching my anecdotal experience.
11) THE Suicide Squad - Another day and date movie, but later in the pandemic when more people had started being out and about. Still lost money theatrically despite being liked (90% on RT, 7.2 on IMDB) by critics and viewers, for the most part.
12) The Batman - A return to form at the box office for a DC movie - $772,245,583 worldwide. Not a part of the DCEU though, for which things were about to get so much worse!
13) Black Adam - $393,252,111 seems like a good box office for a villainous character movie without his main foil involved (no Shazam in this one). Still, the response by this studio seemed pretty negative, with rumors of The Rock leaking false information about the movie being profitable.
14) Shazam 2 - Uh oh. A bona-fide flop. Just $133,838,006 worldwide - a low number many couldn't imagine for a major comic book sequel just a few years before.
15) The Flash - Probably sealed the fate for any actors continuing their roles into the Gunn era. Despite some over the top early word of mouth calling it the best superhero movie ever, the audience and critical reaction was tepid, and the box office was a complete disappointment. $270,633,313 worldwide returns on a movie featuring the return of Batman '89? Shocking! Lets not forget that the actor strike and the tabloid hijinx of the lead could have played a role.
16) Batgirl - thrown in the trash by Zaslav. Lame.
17) Blue Beetle - This was meant to be a TV movie, so box office is hard to judge since the movie probably wasn't filmed with movie theaters in mind. Only made $129,288,072 worldwide though, so sadly its unlikely that this movie will be counted as being a part of the Gunn universe.
18) Aquaman 2 - Thrown into the world without even having a red carpet world premiere (probably due to the bad streak the DC universe was on, not to mention being the closing movie of the universe). So far its at $258,875,070 worldwide which is really quite good considering the circumstances.
So what's the miss rate? It's debatable because we don't know the details of studio expectations, marketing budgets, etc. Personally I would put the miss rate (didn't meet expectations or even lost money) at 50%. The 9 I consider misses are
BVS, JL, BOP, WW2, TSS, BA, Shazam 2, The Flash, Blue Beetle. Aquaman 2 will likely lose money too, but it never even really had a chance.
1) MOS - met expectations. Made a lot more money than the previous Superman movie (Returns). A lot of people noisily complained about the violence/destruction and WB clearly listened leading to...
2) BvS - just below expectations but seemingly profitable. A movie bringing together the two best known characters in comic book history was probably expected to do Avengers level numbers. This didn't quite get there, but it still made a lot of money. Not a flop.
3) Suicide Squad - Way outperformed expectations. Made a huge profit despite middling reviews and generally negative public reaction. Also started all the rumors of WB meddling in movies as movie tone was changed post filming.
4) Wonder Woman - Mega hit. Successful at the box office, with critics, and with audiences.
5) Justice League - Made significant money, but still probably a loss. $661,324,295 worldwide is no joke - but a Justice League movie was definitely expected to do numbers comparable to Avengers movies. After all, this was the next appearance of Wonder Woman - and he solo movie made $822,963,408 worldwide. The movie also saw negative reviews on average. The worst thing to happen though was how this movie took studio meddling rumors (some confirmed) to a new level, with extensive reshoots changing the tone of the movie with a new director. The new tone didn't seem to match what came before.
Still, at this point the DCEU was 5/5 without a MAJOR flop, and arguably with only 2 box office "disappointments".
6) Aquaman - HUGE surprise hit. An unbelievable $1,151,961,807 worldwide gross. Anyone predicted $1,151,961,807 making more money than Superman, WW and especially the entire JUSTICE LEAGUE?
7) Shazam - Did ok enough at the box office to get a sequel. Generally liked by audience. Not a hit. Not a flop.
8) We're including Joker? Ok, another HUGE somewhat surprising mega hit.
9) Birds of Prey - Did the wheels start falling off here? Just $205,358,461 on an $84,500,000 budget. Not some kind of spectacular flop, but surely the studio expected more? Suicide Squad was a super hit at the box office, and many analysts ascribed that to Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn. Well, SS made $749,200,054 worldwide.
10) WW1984 - Can't judge the box office - it came out during the brutal winter covid wave and was released on HBO at the same time. Didn't do to well compared to some other day and date WB movies that came later, but this one was first and thus isn't fairly comparable to anything. So all we have to talk about is critical and viewer sentiment. 58% on RT and 5.4 on IMDB. Not scientific measurements in the slightest, but still definitely pointing to a negative audience and critical reaction - matching my anecdotal experience.
11) THE Suicide Squad - Another day and date movie, but later in the pandemic when more people had started being out and about. Still lost money theatrically despite being liked (90% on RT, 7.2 on IMDB) by critics and viewers, for the most part.
12) The Batman - A return to form at the box office for a DC movie - $772,245,583 worldwide. Not a part of the DCEU though, for which things were about to get so much worse!
13) Black Adam - $393,252,111 seems like a good box office for a villainous character movie without his main foil involved (no Shazam in this one). Still, the response by this studio seemed pretty negative, with rumors of The Rock leaking false information about the movie being profitable.
14) Shazam 2 - Uh oh. A bona-fide flop. Just $133,838,006 worldwide - a low number many couldn't imagine for a major comic book sequel just a few years before.
15) The Flash - Probably sealed the fate for any actors continuing their roles into the Gunn era. Despite some over the top early word of mouth calling it the best superhero movie ever, the audience and critical reaction was tepid, and the box office was a complete disappointment. $270,633,313 worldwide returns on a movie featuring the return of Batman '89? Shocking! Lets not forget that the actor strike and the tabloid hijinx of the lead could have played a role.
16) Batgirl - thrown in the trash by Zaslav. Lame.
17) Blue Beetle - This was meant to be a TV movie, so box office is hard to judge since the movie probably wasn't filmed with movie theaters in mind. Only made $129,288,072 worldwide though, so sadly its unlikely that this movie will be counted as being a part of the Gunn universe.
18) Aquaman 2 - Thrown into the world without even having a red carpet world premiere (probably due to the bad streak the DC universe was on, not to mention being the closing movie of the universe). So far its at $258,875,070 worldwide which is really quite good considering the circumstances.
So what's the miss rate? It's debatable because we don't know the details of studio expectations, marketing budgets, etc. Personally I would put the miss rate (didn't meet expectations or even lost money) at 50%. The 9 I consider misses are
BVS, JL, BOP, WW2, TSS, BA, Shazam 2, The Flash, Blue Beetle. Aquaman 2 will likely lose money too, but it never even really had a chance.
I was a manager at an arthouse movie theatre from 2013 to 2019. I left the job just four months before COVID hit.
My ability to speak to multi-decade box office trends is limited, but I can say that looking at average per-cinema box office receipts for Week 52 in 2023... These are the sort of numbers that, pre-COVID, we would have sent a large percentage of the hourly staff home for. Like barebones staffing and maybe a bit less.
My ability to speak to multi-decade box office trends is limited, but I can say that looking at average per-cinema box office receipts for Week 52 in 2023... These are the sort of numbers that, pre-COVID, we would have sent a large percentage of the hourly staff home for. Like barebones staffing and maybe a bit less.
Been working my way through the last movies unseen by me in this now closed continuity. Shazam 2 was mildly entertaining (made me laugh a few times) but I’m not sure I’ll ever revisit it. Blue Beetle was quite a bit better (I had no particular expectations) and it’ll likely be revisited from time to time. I don’t care either way about Shazam but I would like to see more Blue Beetle. Certainly easy enough to integrate into the new continuity (though I don’t expect to see it happen). Ah well. Just one more to go.
Anya Chalotra has been cast as Circe, making her first appearance in the Creature Commandos animated series. Chalotra is best known as Yennefer of Vengerberg in Netflix's The Witcher series.
Circe, supposed to be the same as the enchantress from Homer's Odyssey, is one of the foremost Wonder Woman villains, one of the most powerful magic users in the DC Universe.
Circe, supposed to be the same as the enchantress from Homer's Odyssey, is one of the foremost Wonder Woman villains, one of the most powerful magic users in the DC Universe.
She's one of the few high points in The Witcher--the one thing that show did well was the casting of the three leads.
I remember her being pretty decent in The Witcher, so thats some good casting. Honestly, casting was one of the few things that The Witcher show did decently (except Triss, not a bad actress but I thought that she was completely miscast for the role).
This Creature Commandos series is going to be interesting, it feels like it might be a bit more important to Gunn's DC plans then I would have assumed.
This Creature Commandos series is going to be interesting, it feels like it might be a bit more important to Gunn's DC plans then I would have assumed.
Now i know next to nothing about the history of these super hero people, with the Batman from the 60s and Reeves Superman movie and that Hulk tv show being the first time i ever heard of them, but i just watched that Flash movie and i thought it was actually very good, i mean i have no idea who this flash guy is, or the superwoman, but i did catch Keaton as Batman again from the 80s movies, and that was great, and i thought it was a very fun movie.
Are there more movies with this lot in them?
Oh and did i or did i not just see Batman on a bike riding through my Glasgow city centre?
Are there more movies with this lot in them?
Oh and did i or did i not just see Batman on a bike riding through my Glasgow city centre?
This version of The Flash appears in several other movies and shows, primarily the Justice League feature (which comes in two versions, a theatrical cut and a director's cut billed as Zack Snyder's Justice League). The character also has brief cameos in the Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad (2016) films, and in the Peacemaker TV series. (There is also, confusingly, a 2021 film called The Suicide Squad in which the character does not appear.)
Sadly, the only appearance of this version of Supergirl is in the Flash movie.
This is also the only appearance of Keaton's Batman beyond the original Tim Burton films.
Oh, I almost forgot: Miller's Flash also has a cameo in the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" crossover event of the DC "Arrowverse" TV series.
The justice league and Batman and superman movies, ok good stuff, i will check them out.....oh and you talk about one of them having a directors cut, is this the same type of thing that happened to the Reeves Superman II that got the original directors cut, which in my view made the movie a more true sequal to the first, and dumped a lot of the pointless humor making it a bit darker, which i liked a lot.
Yeah i know, i am about 30 years behind in this stuff, i still have more dvds than Blu rays. Lol
Note that The Flash's appearance in Batman v Superman is extremely brief, and he doesn't even have any dialogue. (Nor is he in costume.) I noted it for completeness' sake, but if Flash is your primary or only interest, I wouldn't bother with that one. For that matter, Justice League is really the only other film besides The Flash in which he has more than a cameo role.
As for the two versions of Justice League, boy, is that a long story. Suffice it to say the director's cut is generally (though not universally) considered the superior version, an assessment with which I'd tend to agree. Be prepared if you watch it, though: It's four hours long.
As for the two versions of Justice League, boy, is that a long story. Suffice it to say the director's cut is generally (though not universally) considered the superior version, an assessment with which I'd tend to agree. Be prepared if you watch it, though: It's four hours long.
The Justice League situation is a little complicated.
So it started out with Zack Snyder, who directed Man of Steel & Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice as part of a trilogy that was going to conclude with JL.
But part way through production of JL Snyder's daughter committed suicide, so he quit the movie and they brought in Whedon. When reshot and revamped almost the whole movie, but when it came out it was flop. So a while later, the decided to let Snyder come back and finish up his version of it, which was then released as the four hour long, Zack Snyder's Justice League on (HBO) Max. There were a lot of people unhappy with Snyder's take on the characters in his first two movies, so there is a conspiracy theory going around that he was actually fired from JL originally, and the story about him choosing to quit after his daughter's suicide was a cover.
The Flash (Season 1) trailer
Supergirl (Season 1) trailer
And if you like them, the whole Arrowverse is pretty good too.
The other series were:
Arrow (This was the first series in that universe, and the reason it was named the Arrowverse)
Legends of Tomorrow
Black Lighting
Batwoman
Superman & Lois (this one is a little complicated because it features the Arrowverse actors and it was originally believed it took place in the main universe, but was eventually revealed it was in it's own separate universe)
They weren't originally created as part of the Arrowverse but it also connected to the 1990 Flash TV series, and the Constantine TV series. They also eventually did a big Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover miniseries that included actors and elements of almost every live action onscreen DC adaptation.
So it started out with Zack Snyder, who directed Man of Steel & Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice as part of a trilogy that was going to conclude with JL.
But part way through production of JL Snyder's daughter committed suicide, so he quit the movie and they brought in Whedon. When reshot and revamped almost the whole movie, but when it came out it was flop. So a while later, the decided to let Snyder come back and finish up his version of it, which was then released as the four hour long, Zack Snyder's Justice League on (HBO) Max. There were a lot of people unhappy with Snyder's take on the characters in his first two movies, so there is a conspiracy theory going around that he was actually fired from JL originally, and the story about him choosing to quit after his daughter's suicide was a cover.
It's not these versions of the characters, but if you're interested in seeing more Flash and Supergirl, I would highly recommend the Arrowverse series, they're both fantastic. They each had one or two less than great season, but overall they're really good series.
The Flash (Season 1) trailer
Supergirl (Season 1) trailer
And if you like them, the whole Arrowverse is pretty good too.
The other series were:
Arrow (This was the first series in that universe, and the reason it was named the Arrowverse)
Legends of Tomorrow
Black Lighting
Batwoman
Superman & Lois (this one is a little complicated because it features the Arrowverse actors and it was originally believed it took place in the main universe, but was eventually revealed it was in it's own separate universe)
They weren't originally created as part of the Arrowverse but it also connected to the 1990 Flash TV series, and the Constantine TV series. They also eventually did a big Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover miniseries that included actors and elements of almost every live action onscreen DC adaptation.
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