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How Do Social Conservative Star Fans Enjoy Star Trek?

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I always find it odd when any of the shows acknowledge the present racial descriptors, especially since none of the other species seem to use them (e.g., Tuvok is never described as a Black Vulcan, or KIra a white Bajoran).

I know it's kind of a joke to talk about a post-racial society nowadays, but I've always like the notion that 300 years in the future those distinctions may have fallen away along with stuff like religion and capitalism. It's part of the reason I never liked the idea that Chakotay's people are presented as a faction of humanity that's separate and distinct from humanity, since it implies that those distinctions still exist to some extent among Earth.
Sorry the above sounds like the present day 'I don't see colour' statement as if that is something positive. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging someone has a different skin tone, just as long as its no more important as the colour of their eyes or hair. In the Trek sense I am sure if someone described Tuvok as the black Vulcan or Vorick as the white Vulcan they would not freak out, its just another biological descriptor with no political, social or cultural advantage or disadvantage for either person.
Its messed up RL human culture that uses our biological, cultural, etc human differences to divide and mistreat people.
In the Trek universe our human differences are no longer dividers, but society is not 'colour blind' either, the human characters should not be treated as if they are secular, honorary white American humans.

Maybe this needs another thread to discuss
 
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Sorry the above sounds like the present day 'I don't see colour' statement as if that is something positive. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging someone has a different skin tone, just as long as its no more important as the colour of their eyes or hair. In the Trek sense I am sure if someone described Tuvok as the black Vulcan or Vorick as the white Vulcan they would not freak out, its just another biological descriptor with no political, social or cultural advantage or disadvantage for either person.
Its messed up RL human culture that uses our biological, cultural, etc human differences to divide and mistreat people.
In the Trek universe our human differences are no longer dividers, but society is not 'colour blind' either, the human characters should not be treated as if they are secular, honorary white American humans.

Maybe this needs another thread to discuss
I think there's a difference between the connotation of a white person saying "I don't see color" in the here-and-now given the cultural issues we're still working through as a society, and wondering about whether skin color and racial classifications will still be a thing 300 years from now in a future where social constructs such as money and human religion largely no longer exist. Especially so given that scientists in the present-day feel race, which is just as much a social construct, serves no purpose and should be phased out.

Scietnific American:

More than 100 years ago, American sociologist W.E.B. Du Bois was concerned that race was being used as a biological explanation for what he understood to be social and cultural differences between different populations of people. He spoke out against the idea of "white" and "black" as discrete groups, claiming that these distinctions ignored the scope of human diversity.

Science would favor Du Bois. Today, the mainstream belief among scientists is that race is a social construct without biological meaning ... "It's a concept we think is too crude to provide useful information, it's a concept that has social meaning that interferes in the scientific understanding of human genetic diversity and it's a concept that we are not the first to call upon moving away from," said Michael Yudell, a professor of public health at Drexel University in Philadelphia.​

And to answer the question about Tuvok or Vorick, I think they would ask what logical purpose does pointing out the color of their skin serve when it comes to making a distinction about them?

BELE: "It is obvious to the most simple-minded that Lokai is of an inferior breed."​

SPOCK: "The obvious visual evidence, Commissioner, is that he is of the same breed as yourself."​

BELE: "Are you blind, Commander Spock? Well, look at me! Look at me!"​

KIRK: "You're black on one side and white on the other."​

BELE: "I am black on the right side."​

KIRK: "I fail to see the significant difference."​

BELE: "Lokai is white on the right side. All of his people are white on the right side."​
 
Now I will say that racial descriptors need to go into the dustbin of history.. We're all human, the end.

While defiitely I agree with the spirit of "we're all human," I firmly believe a person should be allowed to be proud of their heritage if they want. That's where IDIC comes in.

I was in a discussion on FB recently about Uhura's famous "Sorry, neither" response to Sulu's "fair maiden" line. One poster refused to believe she could possibly be referring to her race, because race should be ignored, and is never something joked about*, and insisted "fair" merely meant "attractive." Now, why would she deny being attractive? Why would she not be proud of her heritage, and comfortable enough in it to make a pun about her beautiful skin tone in a stressful situation?

*Paging Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, et al.
 
While defiitely I agree with the spirit of "we're all human," I firmly believe a person should be allowed to be proud of their heritage if they want. That's where IDIC comes in.
I don't think there's anything wrong with being proud of your culture. I do think there's a problem when pride goes to the point of exclusion. In the case of Chakotay's people, they're so "proud" of their culture that they decide that they can't share the same planet with other members of their species because of the threat to its purity.

To me, that's a form of self-imposed segregation that rejects the ability of diversity to thrive. Any attempt to keep a culture's "purity" causes me to give a side-eye because that word usually isn't associated with good things historically when it comes to a functioning and diverse civil society.
 
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While defiitely I agree with the spirit of "we're all human," I firmly believe a person should be allowed to be proud of their heritage if they want. That's where IDIC comes in.

I was in a discussion on FB recently about Uhura's famous "Sorry, neither" response to Sulu's "fair maiden" line. One poster refused to believe she could possibly be referring to her race, because race should be ignored, and is never something joked about*, and insisted "fair" merely meant "attractive." Now, why would she deny being attractive? Why would she not be proud of her heritage, and comfortable enough in it to make a pun about her beautiful skin tone in a stressful situation?

*Paging Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, et al.
If 'fair' is considered having a light skin tone, then in the TOS era there is nothing wrong with saying I am not fair I am______, there would be no eurocentric hierarchy totem pole to worry about, being dark in skin tone would be as beautiful as being 'bronze' as a T'Pring Vulcan or 'fair' as blonde Rand and Chapel. Although in a universe that has green and blue people, what on earth would 'fair' mean anyway?

I'm going to start a new thread and move this discussion elsewhere
 
If 'fair' is considered having a light skin tone, then in the TOS era there is nothing wrong with saying I am not fair I am______, there would be no eurocentric hierarchy totem pole to worry about, being dark in skin tone would be as beautiful as being 'bronze' as a T'Pring Vulcan or 'fair' as blonde Rand and Chapel. Although in a universe that has green and blue people, what on earth would 'fair' mean anyway?

I'm going to start a new thread and move this discussion elsewhere
After that FB discussion I was kinda thinking of starting a "sorry neither" thread here to see what other people thought of it, but I was askared. :)
 
*Paging Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, et al.

Jokes about black people seem to be like using the N-word... black people do it, no problem. White people do it, it's hate speech. Just an oddity of our society, I guess.

Actually, the N-word seems to have become the new Big Bad Cussword, replacing the F-word, which (as @Tuskin38 just reminded us) is part of everyday conversation these days. Use that N-word, conversation in a room suddenly stops and everyone stares at you.

I wonder what the Big Bad Cussword of the 22nd century will be?
 
Jokes about black people seem to be like using the N-word... black people do it, no problem. White people do it, it's hate speech. Just an oddity of our society, I guess.

Which is exactly why I'm sure Nichelle meant it in that context - she can joke about it herself, but if Kirk had said it, it would have been awful.

Am I correct that Nichelle ad-libbed that line? Or is that an urban myth?

Actually, the N-word seems to have become the new Big Bad Cussword, replacing the F-word, which (as @Tuskin38 just reminded us) is part of everyday conversation these days. Use that N-word, conversation in a room suddenly stops and everyone stares at you.

I wonder what the Big Bad Cussword of the 22nd century will be?

Dunsel? Herbert? :)
 
Well, a double dumb Herbert on you. :lol:

Seriously, though, I do think it's been clearly, emphatically, and repeatedly stated that Trek can easily appeal to either social or political conservatives. Anyone disagree?
 
Seriously, though, I do think it's been clearly, emphatically, and repeatedly stated that Trek can easily appeal to either social or political conservatives. Anyone disagree?
One other thing that stood out to me in this conversation, and then my own philosophical musings, was the idea that we don't have to agree on everything to enjoy Star Trek. I think there is an element of mutual strength through debate by accepting that different political viewpoints can still enjoy Star Trek quite well, and that the fandom is the stronger for it, and that we shouldn't all strive to view Star Trek the same.
 
You know, I literally just got that.

All these years I never even considered that's what she meant.

That's a kinda Whitey thing for me to say, isn't it? :lol:

No, I don't think so. It was only through recent discussions on here that I reached the same conclusion.

I just never gave any thought to what "fair maiden" meant. I'm not even sure if I recalled Uhura saying "sorry, neither". If I did, I wonder if I assumed she/the expression meant fair as opposite of foul.

So, when I read the initial comment here that stated Uhura was referring to skin tone, it was like a V8 moment for me.

What did Sulu mean when he called her "fair maiden"? He was drunk, not blind. Not like couldn't tell skin tone.
 
Would you actually contribute instead of just drive by posting nothing that adds to the thread?

Commentary on qualify of life in the Trek universe (under The United Federation of Planets) that was designed to provoke discussion concerning its political orientation (or, at least, leaning); no responses.

It may - okay, likely will - not result in anything definitive, but at least it pulls the focus towards the fictional setting instead of veering back into reality.
 
Ok back to social conservatives as trek fans, or if its all been said we can put this one to bed
I won't lie, I'm actually surprised it's managed to go this long.

But anyway, as I've said, even though I'm not a conservative, I did come from a conservative family (even though my father will insist he's "in the middle"). When they were watching Star Trek, they just weren't thinking about politics. They were thinking, "It's a space show!"

Things weren't as politicized before as they've become in the 21st Century. Maybe it was a disconnect, maybe it was a disassociation, maybe it was neither of those, they just got different things out of it besides political.
 
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