Spoilers The Flash (2023) -Review and Discussion Thread

[Commander Troi]

We finally saw it last night and both said we were glad we didn't pay to see it in a theater. Very unsatisfying, especially the ending, although the post-credit scene was amusing. I was impressed with Ms. Calle and hope she gets success with her next job. We'll probably not watch it again.

 

[Mage]

It's too bad that this film will be remembered for bad CGI, as there are some good effects in there as well.

You know, Ben Affleck's new suit annoyed me a lot more than the at times bad CGI.
And yes, @Christopher , the more I think about it, the more we forget some amazing more subtle and seamless effects, like the interaction of the two Barry's as you mentioned. Perhaps because it was seamless, it almost went unnoticed. Very fair point!

 

[Christopher]

And yes, @Christopher , the more I think about it, the more we forget some amazing more subtle and seamless effects, like the interaction of the two Barry's as you mentioned. Perhaps because it was seamless, it almost went unnoticed. Very fair point!

VFX have become so routine that they don't amaze us anymore. It used to be "Wow, how did they do that? I've never seen anything like that!" Now it's "Ahh, the CGI isn't flawless enough."

I recently watched Disney Plus's 6-episode Light and Magic documentary about the history of ILM, and it struck me that it has two episodes about the struggles of creating the FX for the original Star Wars, two episodes about ILM's further innovations in FX technology throughout the '80s, one episode about ILM's development of digital FX culminating in Jurassic Park... and then just one episode about the subsequent 30 years since JP. Once CGI started replacing conventional techniques, there really wasn't much more to say. There are rarely revolutionary breakthroughs anymore, just progressive improvement of CGI (though I feel the documentary gave short shrift to the advances in performance capture from LOTR onward, I guess since it wasn't ILM's work). Where there have been impressive advances, they've been improvements of the integration of CGI with live elements, like the twin-interaction FX of Orphan Black and The Flash, or LED-screen stages like the Volume.

 

[marillion]

Watched it last night. Short review: A bit too long, but I really enjoyed it overall. I'm sorry I didn't see this in the theater. Definitely will need a re-watch to pick up things I missed.

Longer version: Again, a bit too long. I don't understand the point of Prime Barry losing his powers. To me, it served no function. And then to have Bruce just rig him up to some Frankenstein contraption with (hopefully the right) random chemicals around him to get them back? We could have shaved off a good bit of time without that, and still found a way to make Kara realize that humanity deserves saving. Really that was the only thing that kind of bothered me.

Calle was amazing in the all too brief time we got to spend with Supergirl. I really wish they'd find a place for her in the new DC movie universe.

The falling baby scene, for me, was a really good set up. Yes the Wonder Woman cameo was shoehorned in, but I never tire of seeing Gal in the role, so it was welcome. The CGI babies didn't bother me, but maybe that's because I was watching it on TV, rather than in the theater.

Ezra Miller really owned the role and brought a lot of emotion to it. I'm sorry we won't see them as The Flash again. Solid B+.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Once CGI started replacing conventional techniques, there really wasn't much more to say. There are rarely revolutionary breakthroughs anymore, just progressive improvement of CGI (though I feel the documentary gave short shrift to the advances in performance capture from LOTR onward, I guess since it wasn't ILM's work). Where there have been impressive advances, they've been improvements of the integration of CGI with live elements, like the twin-interaction FX of Orphan Black and The Flash, or LED-screen stages like the Volume.

I've posted this before but what I feel really gets short shrift is the seamless FX used in everyday production (scene extensions and the like). Everyone talks CGI when they see an alien or starship or something obvious but I'm always surprised by how much casual FX are part of a production (and this clip is 13 years old). There's a number of these from Stargate Studios on Youtube.

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[El Maestro]

Just saw this over the weekend: it was.....fine...a study in wasted potential. If Warner/DC had done all of this better it could've been a real banger with huge emotional stakes. I kept trying to decide if I hated Ezra/the Barries because of the actor or because of the writing/characterization.

I really liked a weathered/aged Keaton Batman. I just wish it was set up a bit better, the hermit/recluse thing felt a little odd.

The CGI was bit dodgy but I enjoyed the brief glimpses and "cameos" of people/characters from the multiverse at the end.

 

[Markonian]

Ezra Miller really owned the role and brought a lot of emotion to it. I'm sorry we won't see him as The Flash again.

See them

But I agree. Wonder Woman for seamlessly into the opening action sequence. It’s like a Trek episode where the entire cast appears on the bridge in the beginning and the rest follows a character’s adventure of the week. Wonder Woman being mysteriously absent from the crime-fighting crisis would’ve been an issue for me.

 

[marillion]

See them

But I agree. Wonder Woman for seamlessly into the opening action sequence. It’s like a Trek episode where the entire cast appears on the bridge in the beginning and the rest follows a character’s adventure of the week. Wonder Woman being mysteriously absent from the crime-fighting crisis would’ve been an issue for me.

Whoops. Thanks for the catch. Fixed it.

 

[Christopher]

I don't understand the point of Prime Barry losing his powers. To me, it served no function.

On the contrary, it was absolutely essential. If Prime Barry had his powers, he could've just left past Barry to his own devices after getting his powers, then gone off to deal with the Zod crisis on his own. Losing his powers required him to stick with past-Barry and train him to use his powers, and also gave him a reason to track down Batman for help.

Also, Barry losing his powers was a plot point in the original Flashpoint story in the comics, although there he was powerless from the start because of the timeline alteration.

And then to have Bruce just rig him up to some Frankenstein contraption with (hopefully the right) random chemicals around him to get them back?

Presumably not random. Barry worked in that crime lab; he would've known exactly what chemicals were on that shelf. There's abundant precedent in the comics for Barry being able to recreate the exact conditions of the accident -- that's how Wally West became Kid Flash, as the result of a rather reckless demonstration the Flash put together for his biggest fan Wally. Indeed, there was a tie-in comic to the 1990 Flash TV series containing a story written by Mark Waid, shortly before he started his iconic run writing Wally's Flash, in which the show's Tina McGee recreated the accident and a random punk became Kid Flash as a result, albeit temporarily.

Also, this is another plot point from the comics story, although the alternate Batman there was Thomas Wayne, and Barry was badly burned in the first, failed attempt.

The falling baby scene, for me, was a really good set up. Yes the Wonder Woman cameo was shoehorned in, but I never tire of seeing Gal in the role, so it was welcome. The CGI babies didn't bother me, but maybe that's because I was watching it on TV, rather than in the theater.

I don't get why people are bothered by that scene. It's so over-the-top that it can't be taken seriously. It's in the tradition of cartoons going back to Popeye's A Dream Walking and Chuck Jones's Marc Antony/Pussyfoot series, and more recently Animaniacs' Buttons & Mindy cartoons, where a caretaker desperately tries to save a baby (or kitten) from a series of deadly perils that the baby sails through unharmed while the caretaker gets repeatedly mangled. And it's a great way to showcase how Barry uses his powers and his ingenuity.

Ezra Miller really owned the role and brought a lot of emotion to it. I'm sorry we won't see [them] as The Flash again. Solid B+.

They were good in the role, yes. Well, better as Prime Barry than the younger Barry, who was pretty annoying.

 

[Q2UnME]

Watched it this past weekend on MAX. Was entertained. As others have stated, a bit too long and the CGI-fest was a bit doggy in places. The emotional beats were good, but it really would have benefited from some more editing to tighten it up a bit more. 7/10

 

[marillion]

I really liked a weathered/aged Keaton Batman. I just wish it was set up a bit better, the hermit/recluse thing felt a little odd.

Well, there's certainly precedent for it in Nolan's movies. By the third one, Bruce is basically a broken shell of a recluse, who is really alone. Keaton's Bruce is the same way. Never had a relationship that lasted other than with Alfred, who has long since passed. I'd have to go back and look at the Burton films, but I'm wondering if any attempt to make Wayne Manor look like it did then, was made.

 

[Commander Troi]

I'd have to go back and look at the Burton films, but I'm wondering if any attempt to make Wayne Manor look like it did then, was made.

It looked like the same exterior to me.

 

[Set Harth]

Well, there's certainly precedent for it in Nolan's movies. By the third one, Bruce is basically a broken shell of a recluse, who is really alone.

It didn't really feel earned when Nolan did it. He hadn't been Batman for very long.

I kept trying to decide if I hated Ezra/the Barries because of the actor or because of the writing/characterization.

Barry was definitely a they in this movie, any way you look at it!

the CGI-fest was a bit doggy in places.

 

[Captaindemotion]

It looked like the same exterior to me.

It looked similar but The Flash used a different stately home than Batman did.
https://thedirect.com/article/flash-batman-michael-keaton-wayne-manor-set-photos

IIRC, the kitchen where he fed the 2 Barries was the same one where he ended up eating with Vicki and Alfred in the original movie, after he realises how unsuited the room with the huge dining table is for a date.

 

[El Maestro]

I don't get why people are bothered by that scene. It's so over-the-top that it can't be taken seriously. It's in the tradition of cartoons going back to Popeye's A Dream Walking and Chuck Jones's Marc Antony/Pussyfoot series, and more recently Animaniacs' Buttons & Mindy cartoons, where a caretaker desperately tries to save a baby (or kitten) from a series of deadly perils that the baby sails through unharmed while the caretaker gets repeatedly mangled. And it's a great way to showcase how Barry uses his powers and his ingenuity.

Yes, for me, the tone and spirit of this was clear and landed. I thought it was creative and showed a lot about Barry's powers and approach in a short time. The backlash seems just like the usual Memetic Snark For Its Own Sake that overtakes a lot of online criticism.

 

[Christopher]

The backlash seems just like the usual Memetic Snark For Its Own Sake that overtakes a lot of online criticism.

Yeah, like complaining about a baby in a microwave when it's an unplugged microwave that the baby is put in to protect it from a fire. That's just performative outrage.

Although the weird thing is that the unplugged microwave beeps at the end, alerting Flash that the baby's still in there. I guess the director and sound editor figured that Rule of Funny outweighed logic, but it didn't work for me.

 

[urbandefault]

I find that if I go to see a movie with zero expectations I can enjoy it for what it is. Spoilers don't bother me and I don't read reviews. I just go and see if I like it.

Most times I come away satisfied.

 

[Supervisor 194]

I think Miller played Barry Allen as the character was written, and probably did reasonably well by that standard. I strongly disliked how the character was written so I really didn’t enjoy the performance, especially that of younger Barry.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I think Miller played Barry Allen as the character was written, and probably did reasonably well by that standard. I strongly disliked how the character was written so I really didn’t enjoy the performance, especially that of younger Barry.

In the grand scheme of things, some of Miller's critics needed to remember that the DCEU Flash was not the older, more conservative Barry from the Silver Age - 80s. Despite the DCEU Barry being experienced in his civilian profession, the superhero side--once serving as a public personality--had Barry occasionally overwhelmed by the gravity of of being a superhero, which Miller pulled off.

 

[Noname Given]

Saw it on MAX yesterday. probably the DCEU film I've liked the most, and yes Ezra Miller did a good job in the role. That said, I think his their* RL issues are despicable and I think it would be insane if they kept him them in the role going forward. Those issues - leading to him them not being able to promote the film; and WB (rightfully) worrying about the BO of the film all combined to make it the Box Office bomb it is - but it's definitely a good and entertaining film.

If not for the issues with Miller and had WB been able to promote and use the film to retool/reboot the DCEU with the existing cast (including Henry Cavil as Superman, which I would have LOVED to see him IN the film the way they did Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman and even Aquaman in the post end credit scene) - leaving Cavil as pretty much the ONLY JLA character NOT show (beyond the CGI volcano eruption stopping bit), really does seem like someone at WB just dislikes the actor for some reason.

So yeah, this film didn't bomb because it was bad, it bombed because the DCEU filmverse doesn't have a good track record in the eyes of the general movie going public, plus this issues with Miller and the knowledge of a complete reboot - and for those of you who will come to claim:

"Well, the general/casual movie going public doesn't really follow, know, or care about all that..." <-- The BO of this films proves different. No, they don't follow or know all the Easter eggs or comic book based nuances; but they are all connected to the net to a degree and follow the big entertainment stories; and while they don't read comics - they've followed certain film franchises like the MCU and DCEU and it ends up affecting the Box Office. (And yeah, the pivot to promoting Michael Keaton and Batman as a big selling point for the film didn't help as no one in 1989 went to SEE Batman because of Keaton - the draw then was Jack Nicholson as The Joker,)

Bit yeah, overall I enjoyed the film, and seeing the Barry character have real knowledge on how to use his powers, and the character motivations were all good. I really didn't care for the George Clooney Batman cameo, but there had to be a consequence for Barry changing time again by giving (or being) his father in the footage used to ultimately win his appeal when in the unaltered timeline that 'look to the camera' didn't happen.

*- It was pointed out to me that I 'deadnamed' Ezra Miller in the original version of this post. I apologize as I did forget how they see their self. It was not overtly intentional on my part. I have edited the post.