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Spoilers What does SNW get right that DSC and PIC got wrong??

It's not an insult it's an observation.

But you say I state it as fact, it can't be a fact - it's about my enjoyment of a TV show - by it's nature that's an opinion - it literally can't be a fact.

2 + 2 = 4 is a fact - I hate Discovery and love SNW is a opinion and literally can't be a fact.
 
It's not an insult it's an observation.

But you say I state it as fact, it can't be a fact - it's about my enjoyment of a TV show - by it's nature that's an opinion - it literally can't be a fact.

2 + 2 = 4 is a fact - I hate Discovery and love SNW is a opinion and literally can't be a fact.

It is about the way one voices an opinion. Thinking that everyone will always assume that what you are saying is an opinion is a falsehood. People interpret written and spoken word within their own construct. It is exactly for that reasons every language developed words along the lines of 'I feel' and 'I think'. Everyone who learned about proper forms of discussion and debate learns that we use words of a similar fashion to explain that, to make sure we do not cause heated discussions. To expect others to simply accept that they must just think and feel like we do and understand what we are saying without proper nuance leads us nowhere.

As for your last line....

Again, you literaly began with "I think we can all agree....". Your entire post began with the assumption that everyone thinks and feels like you. Thus, stating fact. It's not that hard.
 
"think" we can all agree.

But let's drop this, not really a hill worth dying on is it?

To you I'm stating an opinion as fact.

To me you're wrong and making a mount Everest out of the worlds smallest Ant hill.

Let's just agree to disagree.
 
DSC was advertised as a ten-years-before TOS prequel, then went out of its way to look and feel nothing like TOS. And everything was dark, including the sets.

PIC was advertised as a continuation of Jean-Luc Picard’s life 20-something years after Nemesis, and ended up showing that Picard just turned into an asshole. And everything was dark, including the sets.

SNW is basically TOS but with a 2023 budget and filming technology. And everything is bright, including the sets.

"think" we can all agree.

But let's drop this, not really a hill worth dying on is it?

To you I'm stating an opinion as fact.

To me you're wrong and making a mount Everest out of the worlds smallest Ant hill.

Let's just agree to disagree.

No offense, but making declarative statements like ‘I think we all agree’ is pretty clearly you talking for other people and stating your opinion as fact.
 
@Mage -LMAO - for Gods sake man it's an opinion - it by nature can't be fact - get real. It's a discussion board and I wanted to have a discussion - if you actually believe what you're saying and aren't just being picky for the sake of it - you're FAR too sensitive and makes me wonder how you actually manage in the real world.

What part of “that’s enough” was unclear?

Your comment about how someone “can manage in the world” is personal, not post.

I’m this close to giving you a warning and shutting down this thread.
 
Maybe I could've worded it better....
You could've but, in fairness, you started this thread in the SNW Forum, so you were writing to your audience. ;)

Anyway, I've seen some people on this board say, "They should've come out with SNW first!" And this is my opening to say I disagree.

In the context of when DSC was first created, at the time it still looked like the Kelvin Films would continue. There were speed bumps, but no one thought those movies would stall out so completely. So, when CBSAA was launching its first new Star Trek series, they wanted something that wouldn't be too similar to the Kelvin Films. Star Trek was already successful on Netflix, so CBSAA basically said, "We're making another spinoff!" And so many Trekkies were talking about how much they loved DS9 because it was dark and serialized. Then add into the mix CBS wanted to pride itself on being the Prime Timeline, yet they still wanted to ride off the wave of the Kelvin Films at the time... so, that means DSC was a dark, serialized series in the Prime Timeline, nominally in the TOS Era before they jumped into The Future, with the main character being a foster-sister of Spock's.

As far as PIC goes, some people on this board like to pretend otherwise but, for a large portion of the audience, the Star Trek they grew up with was TNG not TOS. The first thing a lot of people think of when they think of Star Trek is TNG not TOS. Almost all of my friends IRL who like Star Trek only like TNG. Back in the '90s, I'd run into several cases where there were non-fans in general (regardless of age) who didn't like TOS but did like TNG. As soon as you advertise something as a TOS Reboot, or a TOS Prequel, or TOS Anything, you've lost them. Picard was made for those people, the TNG Fans who hadn't had anything thrown at them for almost 20 years. No, "These Are the Voyages" doesn't count! How they felt about Nemesis had faded away and they missed the 24th Century. Alex Kurtzman and Michael Chabon wanted to bring back Picard, but Patrick Stewart didn't want to do it unless it was different and he wasn't doing things he was doing before. Enter Picard Season 1. Once Patrick Stewart warmed up to being back, then he was willing to do more with his fellow TNG cast and be fully back in that world. He had to get up to that point before they could do anything else. But once he was there, they finally had a chance to give TNG a better ending than Nemesis. Enter Terry Matalas and Picard Season 3. Think about it from the cast's point of view: Who wants Nemesis to be their swan song?

With both of those shows, you get "We want dark and serialized!" and "We want to go past Nemesis!" out of the way. Also, if not for DSC, fans would be a lot less forgiving of the visual changes SNW made. DSC went so far different from what people thought of as the TOS aesthetic that they were more willing now to accept SNW's look as a compromise.

Also, if not for DSC, there wouldn't be SNW. It doesn't look like a Pike series was Alex Kurtzman's first choice. It's what Akiva Goldsman pushed for, and he wouldn't have gotten the idea in his head if DSC wasn't initially set "10 years before TOS", which led to him thinking, "Where's Pike?" And it's the Pike introduced in DSC who fans wanted to get his own series. Without Anson Mount, and without DSC Season 2 to show him off, all Pike would be is The Captain Before Kirk. A father-figure to Kelvin Kirk, and a grumpy misogynist in "The Cage". Anson Mount really made Pike into his own, and made people want a series with him. And you have DSC to thank for getting the ball rolling.
 
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Yes, it’s the light tone - not just in the sets but in the “feel” (sorry to be vague).
 
I think what people like about SNW is that it can spend more time being an updated version of TOS than the Kelvin Films ever could. I suspect a lot of people felt cheated out of an opportunity when the movies stalled out. They wanted more of what there wasn't enough of: an updated TOS.

Just like fans of PIC Season 3 wanted what wasn't there: a final word on TNG. Some people could say "All Good Things" was the "final word", but how final was it really when there were four post-scripts (in the form of movies) and everyone watching knew they were going to movies?

I'm hoping DSC Season 5 gives us an ending where people like me don't end up in the same boat as the people in those other groups I mentioned. Yes, I know what I said. I wasn't onboard with idea of "another TNG Movie" until Picard came along and I liked the series. At the end of the day, I liked Picard for all the reasons other people don't like it. Including the first two seasons.
 
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Not having one character being the center of all the action is a biggie. Until DIS, Star Trek balanced characters and plots much better. Thankfully, we also have/had SNW, LD, and Prodigy. PIC and DIS went too hard on plot and galactic disasters. Leave those to two-parters and movies. Use more of your cast. Don't sideline/ditch them.
 
For me, it just seems that SNW managed to look at what's best about previous efforts, and synthesize them into a working whole.
- The Original Series's sense of fun, seen with the LD crossover and the musical episode. Plus, its characters: Spock is always nice to have, Uhura gets some much needed love, and others have shown up.
- TNG's more serious tone and its charismatic leads. Pike may be more tongue in cheek, but there's some Picard in him.
- DS9's focus on character development, and its judicious balance between serialized stories and episodic ones. The Enterprise might be mobile, but there's a lot of DS9 in SNW's pedigree.
- The showrunners were able to watch DIS and PIC and get a good bead on what modern audiences liked. Part of TNG's early issues were that they were trying to recreate TOS, but that wasn't what people wanted in a new Star Trek. By the time SNW rolled around, there were several other darts in the board.
- A particularly likable character had dropped into DIS, in the form of Captain Pike. People specifically said they wanted a series with him. "Give your audience what they want" is never a bad strategy.
- And of course, state of the art graphics and CGI.
 
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Before I can understand a show's flaws, it has to engage me. I watched a lot of Voyager, and enjoyed quite a few episodes, so it's easy to see its weaknesses (I like the cast, especially Mulgrew, but there's nothing it did that other Treks didn't do better). Discovery... I don't know, it just didn't engage me the way classic Trek did. And the way SNW and PRO do.
 
Not having one character being the center of all the action is a biggie.

That’s a good point. To me, DSC might as well be called Star Trek: Michael Burnham. And since I pretty much hate that character, the rest of the show isn’t a strong enough pull to keep me watching. I also did not like what they did to the character of Picard, but at least that show partly redeemed itself in my eyes by giving Data a much better death than he had in Nemesis.
 
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