*drinks Guiness*
Yeah, few of my Irish American friends do the catholic church thing.
I get your point but I think its more the appeal to tradition than racist. That's me though. I like traditions and exploring them from a cultural point of view.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x09 - "Subspace Rhapsody"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Yeah, few of my Irish American friends do the catholic church thing.
I get your point but I think its more the appeal to tradition than racist. That's me though. I like traditions and exploring them from a cultural point of view.
SNW Chapel reminds me of that certain gal most people have met at some point in their journey: the cool chick, the raging extrovert, with a trail of broken hearts and relationships behind her, emotional baggage up the wazoo, and trouble forming pair-bonds. She's fun at parties and interesting to talk to, you want to be with her, but in the end she's just relationship kryptonite. Every time. Spock, with no emotional maturity to speak of but a boatload of half-human hormones, didn't stand a chance here.
I'm sure there's a guy version of this person too, but it probably takes a girl to spot him.
There are definitely many men like that as well, and it does not take a woman to spot them. Commitment issues know no gender.
Anyway, Christine's behavior makes sense from a writing perspective. She never actually chased Spock in spite of her feelings. Then, when they first got together, she was unsure what she really wanted from him. Then Boimler revealed to her that she is not destined to be an important part of Spock's life in the eyes of history, so she was hurt and started pulling back. She was just completely incapable of going to Spock for help coping with her PTSD, and she's probably a bit pissed at him for telling her that that hurt him.
I can see where her insecurity over their relationship could drive her to avoid Spock and become pre-emptively defensive. Which is what she became, alongside her joy over getting the fellowship -- she assumed Spock wanted her to stay.
But Spock never asked her to stay. He wanted to know why she didn't talk to him first is all. He wanted to know that he was special to her and she trusted him.
Ironically, that's what T'Pring wanted out of Spock.
I had a female friend who was exactly like that. She basically never grew up. We were close friends for a long time, but there came a point where it was just toxic to be around her because she always needed bailing out of situations and rarely took any responsibility for her actions. I haven't talked to her in years. She's not a bad person, but damn it... she just constantly made stupid decisions.
I am one of the people who rated this in the middle. There was some good and bad in this episode:
The strong:
-The "musical" aspect was explained and well incorporated into the story.
-Most of Spock's numbers. Peck has a solid voice and his songs seemed to come very organically.
-Chapel's number in the bar.
-Ohura's number (in isolation--see below): That actress is also a solid singer and I enjoyed her song.
-The Klingon's boy band show tune. This is probably a controversial one, but it was a really fun and funny moment, both because they are essentially a boy-band and because of Pike's reaction to them
The weak:
-Ortegas' song-- the lyrics are something to the effect of "I'm the pilot and this is my station..." While I understand that she identifies closely with being a pilot, the song feels like it doesn't have much to say, so it reiterates the one thing we know about Ortegas (which has been hammered upon this season). I'm Ortegas and I fly this ship.
-The placement of the Ohura number. Ohura sings about being lonely directly after Spock sings about being lonely. While I understand that loneliness and learning to come together was a theme in this episode, multiple separate "I'm lonely" songs right next to each other felt a bit redundant. Since they are both thematically the same, it would have almost made sense to combine hers and Spock's so they are either intercut or harmonizing about their feelings of isolation.
-Finally, I'll have to listen again, but many of the songs felt fairly generic musically. None of them truly stuck with me after the episode ended.
Ultimately, while it may not be for everyone, I applaud the creators for attempting something different, even if the results are a bit uneven.
The strong:
-The "musical" aspect was explained and well incorporated into the story.
-Most of Spock's numbers. Peck has a solid voice and his songs seemed to come very organically.
-Chapel's number in the bar.
-Ohura's number (in isolation--see below): That actress is also a solid singer and I enjoyed her song.
-The Klingon's boy band show tune. This is probably a controversial one, but it was a really fun and funny moment, both because they are essentially a boy-band and because of Pike's reaction to them
The weak:
-Ortegas' song-- the lyrics are something to the effect of "I'm the pilot and this is my station..." While I understand that she identifies closely with being a pilot, the song feels like it doesn't have much to say, so it reiterates the one thing we know about Ortegas (which has been hammered upon this season). I'm Ortegas and I fly this ship.
-The placement of the Ohura number. Ohura sings about being lonely directly after Spock sings about being lonely. While I understand that loneliness and learning to come together was a theme in this episode, multiple separate "I'm lonely" songs right next to each other felt a bit redundant. Since they are both thematically the same, it would have almost made sense to combine hers and Spock's so they are either intercut or harmonizing about their feelings of isolation.
-Finally, I'll have to listen again, but many of the songs felt fairly generic musically. None of them truly stuck with me after the episode ended.
Ultimately, while it may not be for everyone, I applaud the creators for attempting something different, even if the results are a bit uneven.
To be clear, having commitment issues doesn't mean one must have never grown up or that one is irresponsible. I've known plenty of responsible, otherwise mature adults who just could never make their relationships work because they could never figure out what they wanted out of their love lives. There are fictional examples too -- Jean-Luc Picard was an otherwise very mature, responsible person who had commitment issues almost his entire life.
John Mayer.
I'm very well aware of that, particularly the part of your quote that I bolded. The friend I was talking about was irresponsible and never grew up in other ways, too. Which is why I eventually realized it was toxic to be around her. Essentially severing ties was one of the hardest things I'd ever done, because I'm very loyal to my friends. Sometimes, to a fault.
A
Amaris
Guest
It's now my ringtone.
Has anyone found a source for the full song lyrics by now?
Apple Music (and I think most music streamers) has the lyrics embedded in the tracks. Sadly, they are incomplete. There's whole sections missing.
Records of that period are fragmentary,
Gotcha. I just wanted to point out that Christine is otherwise a very accomplished, responsible person. I don't think she's some raging party girl leaving a trail of broken hearts or toxic.
If only people in real life sang about their commitment issues...
One thing that struck, first from previewing some folks' reactions on here, and then by seeing it myself, is that the commitment all the performers and crew made to doing this for real made all the difference.
Mild rant, but: I was a marching band kid growing up. In fact, I rejected doing theater stuff in favor of band. That activity, at high levels, is actually very difficult, similar perhaps to other performing arts --- like musical theatre, dance, etc. I was okay-enough at this that I was selected to join a drum and bugle corps, sort of like a select team in youth sports. These groups, mostly college students and some high schoolers (which I was at the time), work their asses off, practicing outside all summer, 10-12 hours a day, sleeping on high school gym floors and acting as our own roadies on a two-month tour, which competitions every few days later in the season.
It was great fun, and a big learning experience, and not dissimilar to the "competent people pulling together to achieve things" theme of Star Trek and this episode in particular. Any one who has done any performing with a group knows how gratifying that feeling can be.
Anyway, one big thing I took back to my high school marching band: Yes, it's all a little corny. But when everyone commits fully, the impressiveness of the product can't be denied, even if it's not something the audience really is interested in.
Over the years, I've taken several people with no background in music or marching to these drum corps shows, and they always enjoy it. Seems similar to the effect of a good musical. Still niche, but executed well, is impressive.
This was not a perfect musical, but a good one, AND it did good things TV-show-story-wise, AND everyone sold it. Made it fun and worthwhile. A minor creative triumph for this show, and I really love them for it. Also, to do all this production on a TV is wild. Really huge lift.
And, as a random recommendation: If you like marching bands or anything like that, go check out some DCI drum corps videos on YouTube. Some even wear GoPros, so you can see just how challenging and intricate (and fun and exciting) the activity can be.
Mild rant, but: I was a marching band kid growing up. In fact, I rejected doing theater stuff in favor of band. That activity, at high levels, is actually very difficult, similar perhaps to other performing arts --- like musical theatre, dance, etc. I was okay-enough at this that I was selected to join a drum and bugle corps, sort of like a select team in youth sports. These groups, mostly college students and some high schoolers (which I was at the time), work their asses off, practicing outside all summer, 10-12 hours a day, sleeping on high school gym floors and acting as our own roadies on a two-month tour, which competitions every few days later in the season.
It was great fun, and a big learning experience, and not dissimilar to the "competent people pulling together to achieve things" theme of Star Trek and this episode in particular. Any one who has done any performing with a group knows how gratifying that feeling can be.
Anyway, one big thing I took back to my high school marching band: Yes, it's all a little corny. But when everyone commits fully, the impressiveness of the product can't be denied, even if it's not something the audience really is interested in.
Over the years, I've taken several people with no background in music or marching to these drum corps shows, and they always enjoy it. Seems similar to the effect of a good musical. Still niche, but executed well, is impressive.
This was not a perfect musical, but a good one, AND it did good things TV-show-story-wise, AND everyone sold it. Made it fun and worthwhile. A minor creative triumph for this show, and I really love them for it. Also, to do all this production on a TV is wild. Really huge lift.
And, as a random recommendation: If you like marching bands or anything like that, go check out some DCI drum corps videos on YouTube. Some even wear GoPros, so you can see just how challenging and intricate (and fun and exciting) the activity can be.
Boy bands are completely over the top with all the emotions, and k-pop? K-pow! I liked it better because it was embarrassing for them, that's why they were so mad. Klingon opera would not have been dishonorable.
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I thought it was a perfect use of fan service and in the right amount. Both served the story, the show and the characters. Korby and Carol are part of Chapel and Kirk’s future/present.
