SAG-AFTRA vote to go on strike

[bdub76]

Have you guys thought of having a system where health care doesn't depend on your job?

Why would anyone want that? It’s an incentive to get you to work until 65.

There is ACA, but it’s not super affordable as a transition healthcare plan. You’ll need far more saved for retirement to utilize it to retire early. No idea why anyone would want to get rid of it.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

@Commander Troi

Georgia is a "right to work" state and that was one of the reasons Boeing opened up a second assembly plant in the state. The company could pay its workers less and increase profits.

The downside is that the quality of work suffered. There were the usual initial teething problems, but the majority of Boeing planes that have some sort of problem come from the Georgia plant and not the Everett plant, which is unionized.

 

[Snaploud]

I remember talk from some moderate Democrats about lowering the Medicare eligibility age to 55 or 50 (as an alternative to single payer plans). That would make retirement before 65 more appealing.

 

[Farscape One]

Between the rising cost of living, mortgage/rent spiking, insurance (home, car, medical) costs being ridiculously high, and utilities (electric, water, etc.) constantly being raised by the city/state, it's virtually impossible to retire before 65. Especially people in the labor area. (Retail, hotels, restaurant industry, etc.)

Oh, and I forgot a big one... the cost of food. Taco Bell isn't even cheap anymore. TACO FREAKIN' BELL!!!

And I'm just talking about people who don't even have children, which obviously balloons all expenses.

I fully expect to be working until I'm dead, since the age for retirement seems to keep going up. It used to be 62... then 65... now 67.

 

[bdub76]

Between the rising cost of living, mortgage/rent spiking, insurance (home, car, medical) costs being ridiculously high, and utilities (electric, water, etc.) constantly being raised by the city/state, it's virtually impossible to retire before 65. Especially people in the labor area. (Retail, hotels, restaurant industry, etc.)

Oh, and I forgot a big one... the cost of food. Taco Bell isn't even cheap anymore. TACO FREAKIN' BELL!!!

And I'm just talking about people who don't even have children, which obviously balloons all expenses.

I fully expect to be working until I'm dead, since the age for retirement seems to keep going up. It used to be 62... then 65... now 67.

The French protested this. Americans accept it. This doesn’t mean you’ll find work or have something medical come up preventing you from working longer.

Reddit is brutal on this guy. I even saw his wiki page say he was a professional scab for a brief period of time.

 

[Commander Troi]

Have you guys thought of having a system where health care doesn't depend on your job?

I wish we were that sane. Many of us want it, but others get scared because some idiots scream "socialism!"

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I wish we were that sane. Many of us want it, but others get scared because some idiots scream "socialism!"

That and the rich elites make more money off the system we have now. It's not about healthcare; it's about profits.

 

[Sci]

He's still following the rules

Nope. He has been promoting productions subject to the strike in violation of the union's strike orders.

but has an opinion that isn't racist/sexist/anything bad.

Screen actors' only chance of getting a fair deal (if they're not big names) lies in unity. By publicly opposing the strike, he is undermining his fellow actors' ability to achieve fair compensation. That's pretty bad.

Doesn't make them bad people.

I don't know if he's a bad person, but I'm not watching anything or giving money to any production in which he appears unless he publicly recants.

Unions are fine, generally speaking. But I'm not a fan of striking.

Nobody is a fan of strikes. But workers' only ability to achieve fair compensation ultimately comes from their ability to withdraw their labor. That's true of both so-called "skilled workers" ("Give me a fair salary, Apple, or I'll go work for Google"), and it's true for for so-called "unskilled workers."

Workers don't strike for "light and transient causes." Why would they? It disrupts their livelihoods. But when workers do strike, they deserve our complete support, because there's no other way for workers to "check and balance" the power of capital.

That generally effects far more people than those the strikers are targeting, people who have nothing to do with the executives/higher ups of whatever industry the union is striking against.

So does the exploitation of workers.

 

[Farscape One]

I still find it curious that the directors guild were able to get a deal, but the actors and writers are striking.

Regarding striking... it still affects far more people than who they are targeting. Using the current strike as an example, how are all the other people supposed to make a living? (Set designers, set construction, prop makers, caterers, costume, makeup, etc, etc) All those people depend on the income of productions, and when those stop, their livelihoods come to a halt. Actors and writers are only a small part of the business (strictly speaking on amount of personnel).

It's nice that the WGA and SAG have some collective nest egg for these things, but what about all the other people who don't have that? It sure looks like entitlement when you're causing other people to go broke so you get better pay.

 

[bdub76]

Now, he's on TMZ putting his foot deeper into his mouth. This guy needs to stay quiet.

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[Sci]

I still find it curious that the directors guild were able to get a deal, but the actors and writers are striking.

You should look up the details. The short version is that the DGA settled for a crappy deal while SAG/WGA refuse to.

Regarding striking... it still affects far more people than who they are targeting.

So does exploiting workers. There's no other way for workers to secure fair compensation.

Using the current strike as an example, how are all the other people supposed to make a living? (Set designers, set construction, prop makers, caterers, costume, makeup, etc, etc) All those people depend on the income of productions, and when those stop, their livelihoods come to a halt.

The overwhelming majority of those workers support the WGA and SAG strikes. IATSE, which represents most the workers you just cited, came within an inch of striking back in 2021.

It's nice that the WGA and SAG have some collective nest egg for these things, but what about all the other people who don't have that?

What makes you think those unions have a bigger nest egg than IATSE? And one of the most basic reasons the WGA and SAG are striking is that the overwhelming majority of their members are simply no longer capable of getting by. They're already broke all the damn time. They have nothing left to lose and are in no better a financial position than the IATSE workers.

 

[Farscape One]

You should look up the details. The short version is that the DGA settled for a crappy deal while SAG/WGA refuse to.



So does exploiting workers. There's no other way for workers to secure fair compensation.



The overwhelming majority of those workers support the WGA and SAG strikes. IATSE, which represents most the workers you just cited, came within an inch of striking back in 2021.



What makes you think those unions have a bigger nest egg than IATSE? And one of the most basic reasons the WGA and SAG are striking is that the overwhelming majority of their members are simply no longer capable of getting by. They're already broke all the damn time. They have nothing left to lose and are in no better a financial position than the IATSE workers.

I do agree that the executives make way too much money. I've never had much respect for higher ups and rich people like them because of the entitlement attitude they always carry with them.

But has it not occured to people that a big reason why people can't live on their income in California is because it's so massively expensive to live and work there?

Maybe if some of the laws and policies are looked at better and you bring down the cost of living to a more manageable level, there wouldn't be such a monetary issue. You'd get better results for everyone, not just those in the entertainment industry.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Nope. He has been promoting productions subject to the strike in violation of the union's strike orders.

Didn't know that at the time, so yeah, that's bad then.

 

[Timby]

Maybe if some of the laws and policies are looked at better

You keep saying this but you refuse to offer anything concrete. One of the reasons housing is so expensive in California is because of supply and demand. "Laws and policies" can't affect that.

 

[Sci]

I do agree that the executives make way too much money. I've never had much respect for higher ups and rich people like them because of the entitlement attitude they always carry with them.

But has it not occured to people that a big reason why people can't live on their income in California is because it's so massively expensive to live and work there?

No, the reason they can't get by is that the studios have been finding ways to dramatically reduce compensation unfairly from what it used to be.

Maybe if some of the laws and policies are looked at better and you bring down the cost of living to a more manageable level, there wouldn't be such a monetary issue. You'd get better results for everyone, not just those in the entertainment industry.

The cost of living in California is an issue, but you're talking about an entirely different set of problems than what SAG/WGA are striking over.

 

[UssGlenn]

There is supposed to collateral damage to a strike, the more the better. You are demonstrating how important you are to all the other aspects of production. The appropriate response is for the leaders of the other affected sectors to go to the studios and put whatever pressure they can on them to settle.

 

[Sci]

He's sn example of how the exploitation of SAG members itself causes collateral damage:

One practice that has emerged in the last couple of years is studios pulling extras aside, paying them an extra $100, scanning them to create a digital replica, and then tricking or pressuring the extra into signing a contract granting the studio the right to use their digital likeness ad infinitum in any production they want -- virtually eliminating both the role of extras, and all the jobs that go into supporting extras (costumes, hair, makeup, etc).

@Farscape One , you cited the impact of the strikes on IATSE members as a cause for concern. But tell me, if you were an IATSE member, which would you want more: a temporary work disruption caused by a strike that forces the studios to negotiate a fair deal with everyone -- or for your paycheck to take a permanent decrease because the studios found a new way to exploit everyone?

This is why solidarity, both intra-union and inter-union, is so essential.

 

[Farscape One]

He's sn example of how the exploitation of SAG members itself causes collateral damage:

One practice that has emerged in the last couple of years is studios pulling extras aside, paying them an extra $100, scanning them to create a digital replica, and then tricking or pressuring the extra into signing a contract granting the studio the right to use their digital likeness ad infinitum in any production they want -- virtually eliminating both the role of extras, and all the jobs that go into supporting extras (costumes, hair, makeup, etc).

@Farscape One , you cited the impact of the strikes on IATSE members as a cause for concern. But tell me, if you were an IATSE member, which would you want more: a temporary work disruption caused by a strike that forces the studios to negotiate a fair deal with everyone -- or for your paycheck to take a permanent decrease because the studios found a new way to exploit everyone?

This is why solidarity, both intra-union and inter-union, is so essential.

That's a fair counterpoint to how it affects the other workers.

Still not a fan of having all those other people on the other side of the production basically having no income for however long this will take to get resolved. That's still a far greater amount of people taking the hit than the people actually striking.

And about the solidarity, you'd think the directors would have held from a deal, too. Again, that just seems curious.

 

[bdub76]

Best to standby the actors and writers.

 

[Starkers]

Why would anyone want that? It’s an incentive to get you to work until 65.

There is ACA, but it’s not super affordable as a transition healthcare plan. You’ll need far more saved for retirement to utilize it to retire early. No idea why anyone would want to get rid of it.

To be fair I live in the UK and hence have access to the NHS (which, honest opinion, is incredibly flawed and monolithic at times but I'd sure as hell rather have it than not have it) and my retirement age is still going to be 67.