Is Chapel been written worse than TOS? (episode 5 spoilers)

[valden]

Just gone through the last trek episode.For those saying this show takes place in a new timeline, i will say no. it still is a rough prequel to tos. So here comes Chapel. the new version. she was one of the least favorite character of TOS, usually mocked for her unrequited love for Spock. SNW is a prequel to TOS that is trying to set up a story why that is.

The issue now is that, have they taken it too far, where chapel now looks much worse than her tos self.

Spock did not break things off permanently with tpring, so what now? i already see the running jokes here on trek bss and twitter that this is like ross and rachel, been on a break. I think we will have Peck memes as the new ross geller.

However Chapel right now is the official the Side-Chick. Almost like a mistress. she and spock are in an open affair while he is still engaged. Also for Spock, this is the worst romance arc he has had. he is juggling two women at the same time? Even Kirk, won't have gone this far and Kirk is suppose to be a ladies man.

For all this show talk of progress and writing women to be strong and not just be eye candy for guys to rescue, it turns out that they made chapel have an affair with a man, who did not permanently break it off from tpring. Also it shows Chapel self esteem is low and will only get lower till she becomes her TOS self. this is worse than when she tired to give spock a love portion in the animation.

I think right now, some are high over this episode because it all seem so soap operish, however This is bad and I think the backlash for this writing will build with time. Kind of like wonder woman 2 movie, when diana raped a guy she pretended to be steve trevor.

This story line of spock/chapel/tpring is the worst we have gotten in nu trek and that is why when it comes to prequel I dont advise they dwell too much on a canon story. if spock could not permanently break it off with Tpring, then he should never have taken on Chapel. So in amok time, we know spock had an affair with chapel and never broke it off with Tpring.

Also this is not good writing for spock as the new ross geller of been on a break and moving on so quickly. Charades is going to be a very controversial episode and I don' think it will suit well with many women wanting more well rounded female characters who are not sterotypes and for those who never liked Chapel in TOS, they just found another reason.

I mean even when you dated spock like 10 years ago before TOS, it was never fully officially real since he never really pushed T-pring out of the picture.

SNW would have been awesome had spock, chapel and tpring all been new characters but played by the same actors.

 

[The Wormhole]

No.

 

[Finn]

no

 

[HotRod]

Absolutely not.

 

[valden]

Sigh, I just almost feel bad for Chapel. I think in a way she was just destined to be a poor to controversial female character taking into account the events of SNW and TOS.

In TOS
She has an un-requited love for spock

In SNW
She had an open affair with him, since he never broke it up with his fiance.

Either way, you look at it. this is just bad for her. Also a big let down for all their push of writing good female characters for the modern age after the sexist 60s.
what is worse? been with a guy you know still has a fiance or crushing on a guy, who never could like you back. the first one is worse.

 

[valden]

Absolutely not.

I am just calling it as I see it. the question why go down this route.

I think spock should have broken it up permanently with tping. Then we can all say screw canon. this is a new timeline, its offical.

Now, I fear this show has ruined Spock. Spock has a girlfriend and a fiance at the same time. sure...okay.

 

[StarMan]

I'm a tough nut to crack, but S2E5 did it - first episode of Star Trek produced this century I gave a 5 / 5.

So, I'm probably going to go with a no.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Hollywood is, generally speaking, bereft of morals. In that vein, it is completely expected that they would morally corrupt two characters this way, because most of the movers and shakers in Hollywood don't even see it as wrong.

Spock is an honorable guy. (Or at least he used to be.) I very much wish they could have gone down the same road that Herman Wouk took with his character Pug Henry in War and Remembrance, when he was torn between his unfaithful wife and the character of Pamela Tudsbury. When the latter suggested that they just 'shack up' and take what joy they could from their lives, Pug discarded that idea outright, claiming that if he was in love enough with Pamela to do that, then he was in love enough with her to divorce his wife and marry Pamela. Later in the story, that is what happened, and Pug remained physically (if not emotionally) faithful to his estranged wife until it was officially and irredeemably over.

Novel idea, eh? Playing it square and doing the right thing?

In this case, the characters of Spock and Chapel both would have been better served if, when T'Pring suggested a break, that Spock simply made a clean, permanent break and then gone to Chapel with a clean moral slate, heart, and conscience. Sure, the story is more dramatic this way, but at the expense of our characters' honor, as it were.

 

[valden]

Hollywood is, generally speaking, bereft of morals. In that vein, it is completely expected that they would morally corrupt two characters this way, because most of the movers and shakers in Hollywood don't even see it as wrong.

Spock is an honorable guy. (Or at least he used to be.) I very much wish they could have gone down the same road that Herman Wouk took with his character Pug Henry in War and Remembrance, when he was torn between his unfaithful wife and the character of Pamela Tudsbury. When the latter suggested that they just 'shack up' and take what joy they could from their lives, Pug discarded that idea outright, claiming that if he was in love enough with Pamela to do that, then he was in love enough with her to divorce his wife and marry Pamela. Later in the story, that is what happened, and Pug remained physically (if not emotionally) faithful to his estranged wife until it was officially and irredeemably over.

Novel idea, eh? Playing it square and doing the right thing?

In this case, the characters of Spock and Chapel both would have been better served if, when T'Pring suggested a break, that Spock simply made a clean, permanent break and then gone to Chapel with a clean moral slate, heart, and conscience. Sure, the story is more dramatic this way, but at the expense of our characters' honor, as it were.

Yes I think this ruined Spock. spock is an Honorable guy that is what I am pointing out. Taking a break, does not mean you need to screw another girl soon and not even tell your fiance you plan on dating another girl.

Its funny that on Friends, the whole point of the ross and rachel ...we were on a break story arc was to show how bad Ross messed up and how wrong he was. here in SNW it is treated like nothing. this is the difference between the CW show writing of nu trek and a masterclass classic series like friends.

I dont even see kirk in this kind of stuff.

Also so much for hollywood wanting to serve women better, as you said we see how they have corrupted two characters in a way that does not serve them.

Also in typical generic hollywood version. they set up spock/chapel in the same episode they also set up a break up coming by name doping roger korby.

Spock has been open to many interpretation over the years, however this spock/chapel/tpring stuff should never have been.

 

[Dar70]

Just gone through the last trek episode.For those saying this show takes place in a new timeline, i will say no. it still is a rough prequel to tos. So here comes Chapel. the new version. she was one of the least favorite character of TOS, usually mocked for her unrequited love for Spock. SNW is a prequel to TOS that is trying to set up a story why that is.

The issue now is that, have they taken it too far, where chapel now looks much worse than her tos self.

Spock did not break things off permanently with tpring, so what now? i already see the running jokes here on trek bss and twitter that this is like ross and rachel, been on a break. I think we will have Peck memes as the new ross geller.

However Chapel right now is the official the Side-Chick. Almost like a mistress. she and spock are in an open affair while he is still engaged. Also for Spock, this is the worst romance arc he has had. he is juggling two women at the same time? Even Kirk, won't have gone this far and Kirk is suppose to be a ladies man.

For all this show talk of progress and writing women to be strong and not just be eye candy for guys to rescue, it turns out that they made chapel have an affair with a man, who did not permanently break it off from tpring. Also it shows Chapel self esteem is low and will only get lower till she becomes her TOS self. this is worse than when she tired to give spock a love portion in the animation.

I think right now, some are high over this episode because it all seem so soap operish, however This is bad and I think the backlash for this writing will build with time. Kind of like wonder woman 2 movie, when diana raped a guy she pretended to be steve trevor.

This story line of spock/chapel/tpring is the worst we have gotten in nu trek and that is why when it comes to prequel I dont advise they dwell too much on a canon story. if spock could not permanently break it off with Tpring, then he should never have taken on Chapel. So in amok time, we know spock had an affair with chapel and never broke it off with Tpring.

Also this is not good writing for spock as the new ross geller of been on a break and moving on so quickly. Charades is going to be a very controversial episode and I don' think it will suit well with many women wanting more well rounded female characters who are not sterotypes and for those who never liked Chapel in TOS, they just found another reason.

I mean even when you dated spock like 10 years ago before TOS, it was never fully officially real since he never really pushed T-pring out of the picture.

SNW would have been awesome had spock, chapel and tpring all been new characters but played by the same actors.

Well TPTB have made it clear that they are no longer following TOS continuity. They can say it's still in the prime universe or whatever. Doesn't matter anymore. There reasons are because they don't want to be boxed in. I get that. I understand that but I don't see why they just didn't make new characters and situations. I have said this now since the Kelvin movies.....EVERYTHING should have been started from scratch. No ties at all to original continuity. Even Kelvin Trek has a connection to TOS. I would have preferred a complete true reboot. Why they insist on doing prequels, sequels, stuff set 900 years after...is beyond me. It just makes everything messy. It causes people to continually try to make things fit etc. It is no longer an easy task to make it fit. It doesn't and people should stop trying to make it fit. I just view it all as completely separate from TOS,TNG,DS9,VOY,ENT,PIC and all the TOS AND TNG movies and maybe the KELVIN movies since they had prime Spock and it he partially responsible for creating that universe. Anything beyond that is separate for me.

I will view it as such and people can keep going around and around trying to fit the square pegs in the round holes. But it's fruitless and just a waste of time now. .

 

[Wingcommanderdarkwolf01]

My gods! No are you high?

 

[valden]

Well TPTB have made it clear that they are no longer following TOS continuity. They can say it's still in the prime universe or whatever. Doesn't matter anymore. There reasons are because they don't want to be boxed in. I get that. I understand that but I don't see why they just didn't make new characters and situations. I have said this now since the Kelvin movies.....EVERYTHING should have been started from scratch. No ties at all to original continuity. Even Kelvin Trek has a connection to TOS. I would have preferred a complete true reboot. Why they insist on doing prequels, sequels, stuff set 900 years after...is beyond me. It just makes everything messy. It causes people to continually try to make things fit etc. It is no longer an easy task to make it fit. It doesn't and people should stop trying to make it fit. I just view it all as completely separate from TOS,TNG,DS9,VOY,ENT,PIC and all the TOS AND TNG movies and maybe the KELVIN movies since they had prime Spock and it he partially responsible for creating that universe. Anything beyond that is separate for me.

I will view it as such and people can keep going around and around trying to fit the square pegs in the round holes. But it's fruitless and just a waste of time now. .

Actually they are following continuity, that is why spock could not break it off with tpring once and for all because they still have to link it back to amok time TOS.

the episode made it clear, spock and tpring are still engaged to be married but are on a break.

Also why they had to name drop Roger Korby, who is chapel fiance.

 

[Dar70]

Actually they are following continuity, that is why spock could not break it off with tpring once and for all because they still have to link it back to amok time TOS.

the episode made it clear, spock and tpring are still engaged to be married but are on a break.

Also why they had to name drop Roger Korby, who is chapel fiance.

Well not really. In TOS Spock had not seen T'PRING since childhood and no one else knew her, that's why all the surprised looks. People can try to reconcile it all they want to make it fit, but that's the way that it was played and it was always viewed. There was never any evidence that Spock and Chapel had a deep relationship like they do now. Again people can say ...Well she made him some purple soup in Amok time....lol. Ok. If that kind of stuff connects all the crooked dots for you....go for it. But deep down we all know that was not the intention and to my eyes and ears doesn't play that way.

Personally I think after SNW they should start Kirks 5 year mission and maybe completely redo some TOS episodes. They may as well go for broke at this point. Either that or let's see some more Berman Era characters get some shows....

 

[Mudd]

No. Chapel is being written brilliantly.

Honestly, they all are.

Claiming otherwise is Bizarro World-level weird.

Sigh, I just almost feel bad for Chapel. I think in a way she was just destined to be a poor to controversial female character taking into account the events of SNW and TOS.

She's not controversial. Most viewers like her. A very few complainers does not make the character "controversial."

There are always a few complainers.

Well not really. In TOS Spock had not seen T'PRING since childhood and no one else knew her, that's why all the surprised looks. People can try to reconcile it all they want to make it fit, but that's the way that it was played and it was always viewed. There was never any evidence that Spock and Chapel had a deep relationship like they do now. Again people can say ...Well she made him some purple soup in Amok time....lol. Ok. If that kind of stuff connects all the crooked dots for you....go for it. But deep down we all know that was not the intention and to my eyes and ears doesn't play that way.

SNW is in the same "universe" as TOS - more clearly so than with most of the other sequel series.

 

[Dar70]

No. Chapel is being written brilliantly.

Honestly, they all are.

Claiming otherwise is Bizarro World-level weird.



She's not controversial. Most viewers like her. A very few complainers does not make the character "controversial."

There are always a few complainers.



SNW is in the same "universe" as TOS - more clearly so than with most of the other sequel series.

If people want to view it that way. I'm not letting it destroy my enjoyment of the show either way. It's a well done show and eons better than Discovery. I'm enjoying it.

 

[fireproof78]

SNW is in the same "universe" as TOS - more clearly so than with most of the other sequel series.

Yup. And better for it since it does that whole continuity thing that is supposedly in vogue.

 

[Noname Given]

Absolutely not. What they are doing with BOTH Chapel and Spock is wonderful, and VERY WELL written and true to the core of each character (IMO).

Strange New Worlds is amazing in that it's STAR TREK at its best. Entertaining, at times thought provoking, but still with a bit of humor and the occasional wink and nod to the audience (which TOS did too.)

IOne of my big issues with the TNG era is that overall it often took itself WAY too seriously, and iat least for me, its entertainment value suffers as a result. YMMV.

 

[Campe]

No.

/thread

 

[CorporalClegg]

Oh. For. Fuck's. Sake.

 

[137th Gebirg]

SNW's Chapel rocks. Period. Full stop.

That's not to diminish Majel Barrett's performance but, in all fairness, she was given very little to work with back then.

NuChapel kicks ass. Sorry, but the premise of this thread is objectively and factually wrong.

Oh, and...