Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x01 - "The Broken Circle"

[Nerys Myk]

Ortegas. No superpower.
Pike. Has great hair, but that’s not a superpower.
Spock has what might be superpowers to a human but are normal for a Vulcan.
Una. Alien Above human strength and immune system.
M’Benga. Nope
Chapel. Nope
Uhura. Linguistic skills but not on a superhuman level.
La’An. Nope even with a distant Augment ancestor.
Pelia. Long lived alien.
Not really seeing a Justice League here.

 

[Greg Cox]

What made me uncomfortable was that 2 protagonists who we're supposed to be positively invested in felt that keeping what is obviously a dangerous and illegal steroid around and then using it--look, if we had a scene earlier on where M'Benga and Chapel were training in the gym, then later on at the planet M'Benga says, "OK ready to put that special training to use?" and they went beating up Klingons, I would've been the first to be cheering.

I think the scene, as played, made it clear that using the serum was not a quick-and-easy technobabble solution that our heroes ought to be using all the time, but a very Bad Idea that they were forced to resort to in desperate circumstances. And that the fact that M'Benga habitually carries the serum around with him is evidence of deeper psychological scars and trauma leftover from the war. That he always has it on him is supposed to be disturbing and worrisome.

And, honestly, that strikes me as way more dramatic and intense and interesting and human than some rah-rah, feel-good tribute to Starfleet special training.

This is a matter of taste, of course, but I think STAR TREK is at its best when its essential optimism and idealism is still grounded in realistic human behavior, warts and all, as opposed to being about "evolved" role models who never have to wrestle with their darker impulses (like Kirk literally wrestled with his in "The Enemy Within").

See TOS, DS9, DISCO, and, yes, even TNG in its richer, less "utopian" episodes, like "The Wounded" and "The Drumhead." To my mind, Star Trek is about flawed, fallible human beings striving for a better future even though we still have a long way to go, not a show about idealized future people who have already "evolved" beyond our faults and frailties, even out on the rough-and-ready final frontier, where, yes, there is absolutely going to be crime and drug use and what-not -- as seen as far back as TOS.

"We're not going to kill . . . today."

"It's easy to be a saint in paradise," etc.

 

[fireproof78]

This is a matter of taste, of course, but I think STAR TREK is at its best when its essential optimism and idealism is still grounded in realistic human behavior, warts and all, as opposed to being about "evolved" role models who never have to wrestle with their darker impulses (like Kirk literally wrestled with his in "The Enemy Within").

Exactly this. Stop trying to humans never do bad things again. Instead, acknowledge the wolf inside all of us, and the ability to make choice.

 

[Farscape One]

I think the scene, as played, made it clear that using the serum was not a quick-and-easy technobabble solution that our heroes ought to be using all the time, but a very Bad Idea that they were forced to resort to in desperate circumstances. And that the fact that M'Benga habitually carries the serum around with him is evidence of deeper psychological scars and trauma leftover from the war. That he always has it on him is supposed to be disturbing and worrisome.

And, honestly, that strikes me as way more dramatic and intense and interesting and human than some rah-rah, feel-good tribute to Starfleet special training.

This is a matter of taste, of course, but I think STAR TREK is at its best when its essential optimism and idealism is still grounded in realistic human behavior, warts and all, as opposed to being about "evolved" role models who never have to wrestle with their darker impulses (like Kirk literally wrestled with his in "The Enemy Within").

See TOS, DS9, DISCO, and, yes, even TNG in its richer, less "utopian" episodes, like "The Wounded" and "The Drumhead." To my mind, Star Trek is about flawed, fallible human beings striving for a better future even though we still have a long way to go, not a show about idealized future people who have already "evolved" beyond our faults and frailties, even out on the rough-and-ready final frontier, where, yes, there is absolutely going to be crime and drug use and what-not -- as seen as far back as TOS.

"We're not going to kill . . . today."

"It's easy to be a saint in paradise," etc.

Exactly this. Stop trying to humans never do bad things again. Instead, acknowledge the wolf inside all of us, and the ability to make choice.

Ditto.

 

[cooleddie74]

This Kirk speech is better than most given in Trek series and films made since.

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[Set Harth]

What bothered me wasn't the fact Chapel (who has kicked butt before) & M'benga were kicking Klingon butt with the aid of some green goo that never gets explained, but that fact that no one just shot them instead of going hand to hand all the time (yes, they worked in a couple shots).

At some point, you have to go Indiana Jones and just shoot them.

So many (nonTrek) movies have this issue.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think you're getting to more of what I'm thinking but I've not explained well, or can't be arsed to explain well.

I mean I wouldn't want her to be as background like the original Chapel while the men take focus, but it's a desire to make Chapel a bit too amazing. As it's not just the smashing up Klingons. She's hot wiring doors, doing her medical stuff, pseudo-counsellor, making the stone man cry, love interest, dead love interest, back to life love interest...

I am always a bit averse to characters that feel like they're do-it-alls as it generally makes other characters feel pointless.

I suspect it's also because softer skills are less 'interesting' story wise. I consider you repairing someone's leg way more impressive than doped-up Kilngon fighting, but it ain't sexy.

maybe after she meets and falls in love with Roger Korby, and he goes missing, it affects Christine so much that that's the reason we never see her like that in TOS.

 

[Pauln6]

What bothered me wasn't the fact Chapel (who has kicked butt before) & M'benga were kicking Klingon butt with the aid of some green goo that never gets explained, but that fact that no one just shot them instead of going hand to hand all the time (yes, they worked in a couple shots).

At some point, you have to go Indiana Jones and just shoot them.

It may simply be that the criminal gang was not well armed overall, possibly they were engineers, and they may have also have been weakened by illness. We've been led to believe for years that everyone walks around with a gun - must be the US influence in the writing.

 

[Pauln6]

maybe after she meets and falls in love with Roger Korby, and he goes missing, it affects Christine so much that that's the reason we never see her like that in TOS.

Maybe it's like Austin Powers 2 and everyone in TOS always knew she was a fembot all along?

 

[fireproof78]

It may simply be that the criminal gang was not well armed overall, possibly they were engineers, and they may have also have been weakened by illness. We've been led to believe for years that everyone walks around with a gun - must be the US influence in the writing.

We have?

 

[Pauln6]

We have?

Yeah. Although baby gorn just use flick knives.

 

[Greg Cox]

You see it your way and I see it mine. But I do not think the best moments of this franchise that have allowed it to endure has just been about “pulp space opera.” It’s about the audience connecting with characters and stories that speak to the nobler pursuits of human nature.

To be clear, my pulp space opera remark was mostly in the context of not expecting rigorous, scientifically-accurate Hard-SF in a franchise that has featured, say, Apollo's giant glowing hand grabbing the Enterprise or a magic Bajoran orb transporting Sisko and Co. back to "The Trouble with the Tribbles. " In that context, a technobabble serum that temporarily allows you to kick Klingon ass strikes me as well within the bounds of STAR TREK's usual willing suspension of disbelief. Personally, I'm not going to worry too much about how "believable" it is in terms of actual anatomy and biology.

Going deeper, while trying not to repeat myself too much, I'll agree that Trek's essential optimism is a big part of its appeal, but I'd argue that that idealism needs to be tempered and balanced by the harsher realities of human nature as well, as seen in any number of classic Trek stories going all the way back to TOS's original "Wagon Train to the Stars." You can't explore the human condition by only focusing on humanity's nobler aspects, nor can you truly depict humanity choosing the better angels of its nature without showing them grappling with the devils on their shoulders as well. Idealism untethered from reality is just escapism, IMO.

Would "Balance of Terror" be as powerful if somebody decided that Stiles being prejudiced against Romulans wasn't "evolved" enough for a 23rd-century Starfleet officer? We needed to see the ugliness of his attitude before he overcame it. Likewise Starfleet briefly lapsing into pseudo-McCarthyism in TNG's "The Drumhead" before Picard heroically stood up to it. Or M'Benga struggling with PTSD from the war?

As others have noted, TOS was an optimistic vision of the future in which the world was much better than it was today, but it wasn't remotely a "utopia." Humans were still humans, with all our strengths and weaknesses, who struggled heroically to live up to "the nobler pursuits of human nature," which didn't always come easily . . . .

 

[Sci]

Can I say that has no motivation for anyone anywhere? No. But people here have been gracious to give you reasons so read them.

And I can only take so many "she's a woman, she's too weak" rationalizations and so many "I know we've never complained about seeing a doctor fight before but THIS TIME" rationalizations before I start suspecting the person giving me a "reason" is either lying to themselves or is blowing smoke up my ass.

Learn from them before getting your dog whistle out.

Once again, please learn to use the phrase "dog-whistle" correctly. I am not dog-whistling; I am saying that I think at least some people objecting to that scene are dog-whistling.

I mean Trek... Trek has had brilliant portrayals of women and people of colour now for ages. I don't think it's a bastion for right-wing hate gangs watching it.

I'm sorry to report that this just isn't true. But also, you don't have to be a bastion of right-wing hate to feel uncomfortable seeing a black man or a woman kicking ass without understanding your own reaction. Plenty of well-meaning people still have feelings that they won't admit to themselves.

I mean Kira must be one of the most loved characters of Trek and is kick-ass.

And the hypocrisy of seeing people whine that Christine is a woman and therefore clearly too weak not to break her hands when no one ever laid the same complaint against Kira, Jadzia, or Ezri is very noticeable.

You do like we've seen with things around Terminator and other movies. Sarah Connor a poster child of amazing female characters. Latest movie is shit, or you have a movie with a shit female lead. "You must be a misogynist." Shut down conversation.

No one's shutting down conversation. It's not happening.

You're picking out this one lousy scene of all things to defend and weaponising it

I am not the one picking out this one lousy scene. I have made several posts basically saying, "this one lousy scene does not make or break the episode." Other people are picking out this one lousy scene and turning it into this Big Thing, and frankly that kind of tunnel vision over such a minor part of the episode makes me suspicious about their motivations.

with pretending to care about representation,

There's nothing pretend about it.

Agreed that Turkana and Ornara didn't have the resources to combat addiction, but Turkana used to be a Federation colony. Clearly, something happened that made them a failed colony and the drugs, gangs, and all the other problems became commonplace. You'd think they would have kept at least the medical side of what they got from the Federation around after all that happened and used the knowledge against addictions. (Since we don't know how their government fell apart, we can only speculate.)

Political collapse can lead to medical industry collapse. Nothing about that seems inconsistent to me.

And my point about Raffi being an addict on Earth was that drug addictions still happened.

Sure. Addiction will still happen if you don't seek or refuse treatment. Doesn't mean addiction isn't curable, and it doesn't mean that addiction is a valid reason to ban a substance in the context of a society where addiction is curable if the patient consents.

Even in the paradise that is Earth. Whether the drugs she took were legal or not is immaterial.

The question of whether or not addiction still happens is relevant only insofar as it informs us whether or not a substance should be illegal. The legality or illegality of a substance is the primary topic; whether addictions occur is a tangent from that topic.

And about having drugs all being legalized... look at Portland. By decriminalizing drugs, you get a sharp spike in crime.

Given the very long example of Portugal, I think you need to provide more evidence to support that assertion.

And frankly, drug dealers are predators...

And if drugs are not illegal, a huge percentage of their markup goes away. The price drastically falls and therefore the ability of predators and organized crime to profit vastly decreases. Drug prohibition is the best thing to happen to the Mafia and the cartels.

They are like tobacco companies... cigarettes have been known to cause all sorts of medical problems, not the least of which is extremely high addiction, for the users and people around them for DECADES. They are another kind of predator because their product has absolutely ZERO positives and they get people addicted so they can just keep buying more and more.

And yet no reasonable person thinks tobacco should be illegal.

Saying you are fine with drugs being decriminalized is akin to saying you are fine with predators going after people.

No, it's akin to saying I don't want racist police and DAs using drug use as a pretext for oppressing black folk and to saying that the government shouldn't have the right to tell you what substances you can put in your body absent a far more compelling public interest than has been presented in support of drug prohibition so far.

But now we're getting into the weeds and this is probably not the place for that topic. Suffice it to say that the real issue here is that we have no canonical reason to assume that drug use per se is illegal in the Federation.

 

[Hythlodeus]

It's simple: The Federation is a progressive Utopia, Earth is paradise -> therefore recreational drug use cannot be criminalized.

 

[jackoverfull]

Has Discovery said whether it's still in effect in the 32nd century? We know it's still a thing as of Prodigy

good question, I don’t think it has been addressed so far.

It's not exactly a blanket ban, since in DS9 they state it is allowed to correct birth defects. And even that is a controversial idea here in the real world.

Interesting, didn’t remember that.

How exactly do you define what is "normal" for a human? For example, some in the deaf community have called corrective measures for deafness a "cultural genocide" and argue with the idea that someone who is deaf is disabled or suffering from a medical problem. And that sentiment is mirrored for other issues. There's been op-eds written by parents of children with Down Syndrome arguing that their children aren't "broken."

all good questions. And it’s worth pointing out that Geordi was clearly born with an obvious genetic defect that was never corrected.

The explanation given by Sisko for the ban makes sense, in that the Federation didn't want parents basically in an arms race with their neighbors modifying their children.

Which is the reason body modifications such as artificial limbs are currently banned from most prominent sports competitions, as controversial as this approach may be.

 

[bdub76]

We also learned that if you’re a descendant of Khan, you can handle your liquor.

 

[Tuskin38]

They’ve become caricatures of their previous selves. Probably peaked around the middle of TNGs run. Then got super watered down in DS9. Now, they’re almost there for comedic value.

Nah, peak Klingon was DS9. We learned more about them and their culture in that series than in TOS and TNG.

I find most TNG Klingon episodes boring in comparison to DS9.

 

[Nerys Myk]

We also learned that if you’re a descendant of Khan, you can handle your liquor.

Khan is easily fatigued. Barely a sip and he wants to be excused.

 

[cooleddie74]

If I'd spent 271 years in a deep cryosleep I might have digestion issues as well.

 

[Nerys Myk]

If I'd spent 271 years in a deep cryosleep I might have digestion issues as well.

Do NOT go in that cryo-tube,