Spoilers Where do things go from here?

[fireproof78]

True Trek? Fan service? Member berries?. No.

Missing the point? Yes.

We will get more 'legacy Trek'. I expect the Georgiou show to bomb, but even if it does....At this point, they'd be daft not to be considering a TV movie event for Voyager, DS9 and/or Enterprise.

I mean, maybe? What's Prodigy's response? As HotRod notes TNG and TOS had big impact on culture. DS9, VOY and ENT could not say the same, which means the draw would not be as strong as with the TNG cast. This one season is now being used as a one size fits all approach for future Trek. Now, that's a very corporate way of thinking and I will be surprised if they don't. It's also not a recipe for success. It's repeating past success and banking on people to come back again and again for the same old, same old.

I welcome the Georgiou show because it's not the same old same old.

I'm sure Legacy will happen. Keep it over there.

 

[Tallguy]

ot one of those 3 shows had the cultural impact that TOS or TNG had. Don't get me wrong, I'd love some kinda continuation for Enterprise, and who knows.... it could happen.

While they did bring back the Changelings it was followed by a flurry of articles about what a "deep cut" this was for this adversary that no one had every heard of (that dominated over half of an entire Star Trek series in a way no other conflict had before or since). And then they dispensed with the Changelings as just puppets of the Borg. It felt like an old Doctor Who six parter where they reveal the REAL baddie at the end of part 4.

 

[TerryTrek]

Picard Season 3 has been a game changer.

I see two outcomes;

1) Star Trek Legacy is not greenlit. Kurtzman continues to push Tilly Academy and Section 31 forward. Paramount has limited funding afterall.

So the fan backlash will be strong. Division will be strong. Discourse may get toxic, moreso than before. Fans may reject the new Kurtzman projects.


2) Star Trek Legacy happens, and Terry does his own 25th century Trek, that acknowledges TOS, TNG, DS9, Voy, and Enterprise, but conveniently ignores most of Nu Trek (Disco, SNW, etc), guys like Drexler and others will be involved in the production, etc.

Also creating some division, but he may win over majority fans again this way.


Two potential futures ahead.

 

[fireproof78]

So the fan backlash will be strong. Division will be strong. Discourse may get toxic, moreso than before. Fans may reject the new Kurtzman projects.

So, same as before, and my experience since 6th grade, got it.

And I see a 3rd scenario: Section 31, then SFA and then Legacy. People piss and moan because they hate Kurtzman and having a person to hate is more fun than enjoying Star Trek. When Legacy happens it still will not satisfy.

 

[HotRod]

So the fan backlash will be strong. Division will be strong. Discourse may get toxic

So nothing changes.

Fans may reject the new Kurtzman projects.

Picard was Kurtzman project.

that acknowledges TOS, TNG, DS9, Voy, and Enterprise

And adds absolutely nothing new to the franchise.

ignores most of Nu Trek (Disco, SNW, etc)

Alienating newer, younger fans.

but he may win over majority fans again this way.

And appeals to no one else.

 

[TerryTrek]

So nothing changes.
Picard was Kurtzman project.

No kidding.

And adds absolutely nothing new to the franchise.
Alienating newer, younger fans.
And appealing to no one else.

Debatable. The TNG characters are very much in the pop cultural zeitgeist. And you have younger main characters like Jack and Sidney for new audiences to connect with.

So, same as before, and my experience since 6th grade, got it.

And I see a 3rd scenario: Section 31, then SFA and then Legacy. People piss and moan because they hate Kurtzman and having a person to hate is more fun than enjoying Star Trek. When Legacy happens it still will not satisfy.

If it's a Matalas project, chances are strong it will. He has a good pulse on the fanbase.

Check out this interview;

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I appreciate that he actually watches the reviews and is well-aware of the loudest fan criticism.

 

[fireproof78]

Check out this interview;

No. Tell me why it's worth my time.

If it's a Matalas project, chances are strong it will. He has a good pulse on the fanbase.

The chances are it will repeat Season 3's beats, reuses assets and elements and tug on the nostalgia heart strings.

There are as many gaps in Season 3 as other newer Trek shows. There are difficulties that I have with the characters. Characters are negative, or have inappropriate pasts that are just glossed over. These are all forgiven for reasons that I can't see past being nostalgia and love of the TNG characters. Which is fine but that's not what I want for the future of a supposedly beloved franchise.

 

[TerryTrek]

No. Tell me why it's worth my time.

The chances are it will repeat Season 3's beats, reuses assets and elements and tug on the nostalgia heart strings.

There are as many gaps in Season 3 as other newer Trek shows. There are difficulties that I have with the characters. Characters are negative, or have inappropriate pasts that are just glossed over. These are all forgiven for reasons that I can't see past being nostalgia and love of the TNG characters. Which is fine but that's not what I want for the future of a supposedly beloved franchise.

Things could be much worse.

There was a series where a genocidal Space Hitler with a decades long history of intentionally murdering thousands of lifeforms and eating them... was awkwardly forgiven, despite not paying for their crimes, and raised up to be a potential protagonist of a future Star Trek project..

 

[JamesRye]

Not one of those 3 shows had the cultural impact that TOS or TNG had. Don't get me wrong, I'd love some kinda continuation for Enterprise, and who knows.... it could happen. But, it's definitely not a sure thing. Same with Voyager and Deep Space Nine, a show that for awhile was treated like the red headed stepchild of the franchise.



Please no.

Not the cultural impact of TNG (cannot quickly find evidence supporting this), but dont underestimate Voyager and DS9. Voyager is massively popular.
Evidence: Star Trek Voyager is the most re-watched show on Netflix. The Voyager Crowdfunding Documentary is the most crowdfunded thing ever, with something like 1.2 million raised. With an average audience score of 78% on Rotten Tomatoes.

If we therefore consider Voyager a success, then we must consider DS9 to be so as well. Evidence: "In 1999, it was reported that Deep Space Nine was the number 1 syndicated show for adults ages 18-54, and it was consistently rated better than Star Trek: Voyager even though the two ran concurrently. Additionally, with a 91% on Rotten Tomatoes and an 8/10 on IMDb, it is obviously held in high regard by fans." - edited for clarity, quote from screenrant.

As for the Deep Fake, this is a thing now. Star Wars is doing it and Star Trek has dabbled. It will get cheaper and better.

 

[HotRod]

We've been going back and forward over this for weeks. There seems to be two sides formed in this argument. Those that want Terry Nostalgia Trek, and those who want a more varied approach to the franchise.

If Paramount had all the money in the world, I'm sure we could have both and we'd all be happy. But by most accounts, money is getting tight. Things might be coming to a head in the future and it may actually come down to one or the other.

In regards to one side or the other, I'll ask these questions again....

Can someone who has never seen a single episode of Star Trek enjoy Picard S3?

Has Picard season 3 brought in any new fans to the franchise?

Discovery, love it or hate it has certainly added new fans. If only thanks to its fantastic representation of the LGBTQ community.

Strange New Worlds has proven to be popular and a great stepping on point for new fans to join the franchise. It's anecdotal, but I can personally speak of two separate occasions of people becoming fans through SNW.

These two shows have moved the needle forward and increased the longevity of the franchise.

If we were to doubledown on Terry Trek and makes shows that only appeal to the existing fans, that's called stagnation. Yes, I'm sure you and I would love to find out how DS9 and Kira are doing. Or how about The Doctor? Harry Kim? Maybe he's finally made Lieutenant. But what does it really add to the franchise?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again..... We're supposed to Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before. Something both Disco and SNW have done very well.

Terry wants to take us where we've already been.

 

[TerryTrek]

Yet Picard S3 seems to have good viewership, engagement and popularity. So whoever it's drawing in, it's an audience that is potentially valuable to Paramount.

 

[fireproof78]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again..... We're supposed to Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before. Something both Disco and SNW have done very well.

That's exactly my point. Season 3 was good. It did well. I don't want to go there again.

Go somewhere NEW!

Yet Picard S3 seems to have good viewership, engagement and popularity. So whoever it's drawing in, it's an audience that is potentially valuable to Paramount.

That makes it valuable; doesn't make it good or the future.

 

[Tallguy]

(Sits back and waits for SNW and Lower Decks.)

 

[fireproof78]

(Sits back and waits for SNW and Lower Decks.)

Smart.

 

[HotRod]

Yet Picard S3 seems to have good viewership, engagement and popularity. So whoever it's drawing in, it's an audience that is potentially valuable to Paramount.

Ok, so they had success with bringing back the entire cast of TNG. They blew their wad on that. Now what?

IF Terry is going to doubledown on nostalgia, do you think fans are going to go as apeshit for Cheif O'Brian as they did for Worf? Is a Kira worth the same as a Troi? Is Harry Kim equal to Data? Hell, is Janeway going to get eyes on the screen the same way Jean-Luc Picard did?

No, probably not.

So right off the bat you're gonna have a nostalgia based show that lost its biggest draw.

 

[fireproof78]

Ok, so they had success with bringing back the entire cast of TNG. They blew their wad on that. Now what?

IF Terry is going to doubledown on nostalgia, do you think fans are going to go as apeshit for Cheif O'Brian as they did for Worf? Is a Kira worth the same as a Troi? Is Harry Kim equal to Data? Hell, is Janeway going to get eyes on the screen the same way Jean-Luc Picard did?

No, probably not.

So right off the bat you're going have a nostalgia based show that lost its biggest draw.

Another good question. Is the huge draw from this specific event repeatable without the TNG crew?

 

[TerryTrek]

Ok, so they had success with bringing back the entire cast of TNG. They blew their wad on that. Now what?

IF Terry is going to doubledown on nostalgia, do you think fans are going to go as apeshit for Cheif O'Brian as they did for Worf? Is a Kira worth the same as a Troi? Is Harry Kim equal to Data? Hell, is Janeway going to get eyes on the screen the same way Jean-Luc Picard did?

No, probably not.

So right off the bat you're going have a nostalgia based show that lost its biggest draw.

Terry literally said Riker will play a huge part in the series. Geordi and Worf were mentioned as well. The TNG characters would continue into Legacy. It's just Picard that is done.

 

[fireproof78]

So, the goal is to repeat and repeat until audience members grow sick of it.

Sounds like a corporate vision alright.

 

[TerryTrek]

They did some great stuff to make Riker, Geordi and Worf more interesting (and entertaining) than they've ever been before. So there's more to mine there if Legacy happens.

Personally I don't mind if it happens or not. I'll be intrigued by the reactions either way.

 

[Nyotarules]

I would advise the creators to move forward with new ideas. If they want the franchise to die, keep doing TNG season 8 style shows over and over. Some fans will lap it up, all the way to their retirement homes. If they want the franchise to survive, do what was done in the late 80s Trekvision , where GR moved on from TOS which led to TNG, DS9, VOY etc.
If social media existed back then and the vocal Trek fans were listened to, if they could, they would be digging that TOS well until the youngest cast member reached 80 plus!