Spoilers Well the TAS canon debate can END now! It's canon! (Minor *SPOILERS* for SNW finale "Tomorrow's Enterprise")

[Yistaan]

I know the life support belts were an animation thing but it does seem strange that they've never used or mentioned again.

The Kzinti being from another franchise entirely also probably didn't help with the rights issues which would affect canonicity.

Not to mention the "four wars" against the Kzinti, with the last one being "200 years ago" can't be squared with the Trek canon as we've seen in Enterprise. Even if Sulu was rounding, 150 years before 2269 is 2119. Zefram Cochrane was happily giving a speech at the warp 5 complex with no mention of a Kzinti war just ending.

 

[Saul]

Hang on. It was already canon right? And some people don't consider SNW canon so for them it can't be canon if it's on a non-canon show.

Begun, the canon war has.

 

[FredH]

I know the life support belts were an animation thing but it does seem strange that they've never used or mentioned again.

Didn’t they move them over to Space Academy?

 

[Yistaan]

Oh it is canon now. I'm just saying there's still a bunch of stuff that needs fan explanations for reconciliation. Maybe the 4 Kzinti wars were mostly fought by the Vulcans? And Sulu's just making humanity sound like it did more than it actually did.

 

[fireproof78]

TOS/TAS are incompatible with Voyager and even TNG. It's canon but even fan explanations don't help the Voyager problem.

 

[Canonical Continuity]

TOS/TAS are incompatible with Voyager and even TNG. It's canon but even fan explanations don't help the Voyager problem.

If it actually is a problem, and that's a big if assuming there is a problem, then it's Voyager's problem. TOS, TAS, TNG, even STV all aired or were released first.

 

[fireproof78]

If it actually is a problem, and that's a big if assuming there is a problem, then it's Voyager's problem. TOS, TAS, TNG, even STV all aired or were released first.

Correct, it is a Voyager problem, not a TOS problem. But, that's why I treat them as separate continuities while being canonical.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned and I missed it, but the way I prefer to look at it is that whenever there's a discrepancy between live action Trek and animated Trek then live action overrules and overwrites animation; and if there's no discrepancy then it's all good.

 

[Canonical Continuity]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned and I missed it, but the way I prefer to look at it is that whenever there's a discrepancy between live action Trek and animated Trek then live action overrules and overwrites animation; and if there's no discrepancy then it's all good.

Each person's head canon is between them and their great bird.

 

[Yistaan]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned and I missed it, but the way I prefer to look at it is that whenever there's a discrepancy between live action Trek and animated Trek then live action overrules and overwrites animation; and if there's no discrepancy then it's all good.

I think it gets messier when the live action contradict, like tas and st5 both saying getting to the galactic core is no big deal and voyager saying the opposite. but the preponderance of trek showing the slower warp speeds in TNG onwards has long since overwritten the speeds and distances mentioned in TOS, TAS and its movies.

 

[Ricky Spanish]

I think it gets messier when the live action contradict, like tas and st5 both saying getting to the galactic core is no big deal and voyager saying the opposite. but the preponderance of trek showing the slower warp speeds in TNG onwards has long since overwritten the speeds and distances mentioned in TOS, TAS and its movies.

TOS speeds are still there, in the episodes. Just like all of the others shows exist as the creators of the time intended them. When I watch "Amok Time", I'm not even thinking of how T'pring is presented in SNW. That isn't a knock on SNW or their version of the character. It is just that it is their version.

 

[FredH]

TOS/TAS are incompatible with Voyager and even TNG. It's canon but even fan explanations don't help the Voyager problem.

While I was never especially a Voyager fan back in the day, what’s actually incompatible? (Aside from the travel time, which as noted is headcanonable — if not necessarily my made-up way, then certainly always some made-up way.)

 

[Boo-khat!]

A theory: If Sha’Ka’Ree is a construct of Sybok, could the Great Barrier be so too? Perhaps between the TAS episode in question and TFF, the Barrier formed.

Seems a little silly, sure. But it’s an explanation.

I'm more interested in knowing how the BoP got through the Barrier just fine.

I know the life support belts were an animation thing but it does seem strange that they've never used or mentioned again.

The Kzinti being from another franchise entirely also probably didn't help with the rights issues which would affect canonicity.

Not to mention the "four wars" against the Kzinti, with the last one being "200 years ago" can't be squared with the Trek canon as we've seen in Enterprise. Even if Sulu was rounding, 150 years before 2269 is 2119. Zefram Cochrane was happily giving a speech at the warp 5 complex with no mention of a Kzinti war just ending.

These are all continuity problems, not canon problems. Canon can contradict itself, continuity not so much.

While I was never especially a Voyager fan back in the day, what’s actually incompatible? (Aside from the travel time, which as noted is headcanonable — if not necessarily my made-up way, then certainly always some made-up way.)

VOY connects with TOS just fine, other than aforementioned continuity issues which plague every Star Trek series.

 

[Canonical Continuity]

I'm more interested in knowing how the BoP got through the Barrier just fine.

Klaa had faith of the heart of glory!

 

[Turtletrekker]

Maybe "Center of the Galaxy" isn't a set of coordinates, but rather a name given to this particular phenomenon.

 

[fireproof78]

While I was never especially a Voyager fan back in the day, what’s actually incompatible? (Aside from the travel time, which as noted is headcanonable — if not necessarily my made-up way, then certainly always some made-up way.)

Warp 10 being not achieved before, as well as the speed issues, navigation being done and updated in TOS, etc. From Magicks of Megas-Tu transcript ) emphasis added)

Captain's log, stardate 1254.4. For years scientists have theorised that if our galaxy was created from a great explosion, then the centre of the galaxy might still be creating new matter. The Enterprise is now on a science mission to investigate.

Bridge]

(The Enterprise is almost obscured by an orange mist)
KIRK: It's an awesome thought that we may actually witness matter being created.
SPOCK: If we do, Captain, we may also encounter forces and phenomena beyond our understanding.
SULU: Galaxy centre, Captain.
KIRK: Lieutenant Uhura, sound Yellow Alert.
UHURA: Aye, sir. Yellow Alert. All stations report Yellow Alert readiness, sir. Captain!
(There's a firework display going on around them, and on the viewscreen)
KIRK: The creation point.
SPOCK: An extraordinary phenomenon, Captain.
KIRK: Reverse power. Hold our position. Deflector screens on.
SULU: Deflectors up. Sir, it's taking considerable power to hold position.
SPOCK: Charting scanners on, Captain. Beginning science survey.
(McCoy enters)
MCCOY: Jim. Spock. What in the name of sanity is going on?
KIRK: We're here, Bones. And the theories about this place seem to be right.
(It's quite a colourful display going on)
SULU: Captain, that thing's pulling us in. I'm up to warp six.
SPOCK: Scanners indicate it's some form of matter-energy whirlwind, Captain.
SULU: Warp seven, Captain. Warp eight.
KIRK: Take us out of here, Mister Sulu.
SULU: Still being drawn in, Captain. Warp nine. Warp ten.
KIRK: Emergency reverse power.
(Everyone gets thrown around)

 

[Canonical Continuity]

^ That's the old warp scale.

 

[Rose Harper]

SULU: Still being drawn in, Captain. Warp nine. Warp ten.
KIRK: Emergency reverse power.
(Everyone gets thrown around)

Salamandering intensifies

 

[FredH]

Warp 10 being not achieved before, as well as the speed issues, navigation being done and updated in TOS, etc. From Magicks of Megas-Tu transcript ) emphasis added)

While admittedly I don’t think it’s ever been stated onscreen, I think it’s been generally accepted ever since early in TNG that the warp scale had been redone sometime between TOS and TNG, so that (say) Warp 4 on the old scale was a lot slower than Warp 4 on the new one, and any conceivable warp factor reached in TOS was necessarily slower than TNG’s Warp 10, which was infinite and literally unreachable (except for the episodes where they reached it, of course).

 

[fireproof78]

While admittedly I don’t think it’s ever been stated onscreen, I think it’s been generally accepted ever since early in TNG that the warp scale had been redone sometime between TOS and TNG, so that (say) Warp 4 on the old scale was a lot slower than Warp 4 on the new one, and any conceivable warp factor reached in TOS was necessarily slower than TNG’s Warp 10, which was infinite and literally unreachable (except for the episodes where they reached it, of course).

Which I find completely odd and disconnected from TOS.