Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"

[Campe]

Well...his main reason was his age. Now they have found a way to deal with it. And the new version of Data is much more human than the old version could have ever been.

To be completely fair, in some later season episode of TNG (“Birthright”, perhaps?) , Data had an aging program added. If that was the real deal, they should have let him age from that. So they had a way to deal with it already in place. They pretty much ignored that. He had an emotion chip in Generations. Largely, by that point, other than the pigment of his skin, he was more human than when TNG began.

Now I guess he can use contractions? Is that it?

 

[Quinton]

Still #TeamBorg here. I don't get why Vadic would make such a thing out of Seven being present in that bridge scene with Jack otherwise.

 

[Turtletrekker]

And as we saw in "All Good Things" the practical extent of his aging program was the ability to add a streak of gray in his hair.

 

[Campe]

And as we saw in "All Good Things" the practical extent of his aging program was the ability to add a streak of gray in his hair.

Yup, quickly swept under the rug for whatever reason.

 

[The Commander]

He had an emotion chip in Generations. Largely, by that point, other than the pigment of his skin, he was more human than when TNG began.

Sure. But he was not "sentient" in a way that these new organic androids are.

 

[Tomalak]

The later TNG movies basically retconned the emotion chip, and he didn’t seem to have it in Season 1 either.

This new Data finally seems at ease with himself and his feelings.

 

[David cgc]

To be completely fair, in some later season episode of TNG (“Birthright”, perhaps?) , Data had an aging program added. If that was the real deal, they should have let him age from that. So they had a way to deal with it already in place. They pretty much ignored that.

It was "Inheritance." They slipped in a line establishing Data could appear to age so quietly that, apparently, no one ever remembered it; "It's part of [Juliana's] aging program. Not only does she age in appearance like Data, her vital signs change too."

It makes as much sense that Data could dial his apparent age up and down on a whim as it does that Guinan or River Song from Doctor Who can.

 

[SG-17]

So the "big bad" is either the Borg (very likely) or Species 8472. Both make sense considering what Vadic said to Seven, given that she was only liberated from the Collective because of their invasion of our realm.

It would honestly make a lot of sense that 8472 would work with Changelings. We never got a full resolution to 8472's desire to purge the galaxy, only one section of their species came to an understanding with Voyager, they were unsure they would be unable to convince the rest.

 

[willg]

If the first two seasons of Picard weren't so poorly received then perhaps they don't have to bring the TNG cast back, and resurrect Data.

 

[Campe]

Sure. But he was not "sentient" in a way that these new organic androids are.

Wasn’t the entire point of “Measure of a Man” that Data was a “sentient” being? Able to make his own decisions?

 

[Vyse]

Everything seems to be pointing to the Borg.

The "real" Borg have been mentioned by Shaw.

Vadic said it was "fitting" for Seven to be on the Bridge.

Since this season is a TNG sendoff, it makes thematic sense to incorporate the Borg as well. While Dukat/ Pah-Wraiths is a cool idea for us DS9 fans, it just seems like wishful thinking.

The fact that Picard's Irumodic syndrome diagnosis has been questioned as well. That leads me to believe that whatever the issue is, it's probably due to his rather unique (ironic) assimilation to Locutus. Whatever that Borg "stuff" is must have been passed down to Jack. That explains why they wanted Picard's old body, and want Jack, while not wanting Picard's golem body. Also, maybe it's something that regular drones don't get, which is why they were not after Seven.

Since there is a Bajoran office on the bridge, that would have been the perfect way to introduce the prophets and the pah-wraiths. That could have been tied into the talk of the Dominion war if that was the route they were going in.

 

[SG-17]

I'm glad that based on what Troi said, that the darkness wasn't Jack but surrounding and passing through him means that he really is the real McCoy being Bev's and Picard's son and not some kind of imposter.

 

[Campe]

One thing I just realized: they destroyed Picard’s biological body when they destroyed the Shrike.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

But why Did Data's memories win? Was it because Lore's personality didn't value his own memories or because Lore had less time powered on, and hence fewer memories?

It's messy, but I think of it as Data get Lore to think like him by getting him to preserve the things that Data values. Subsequently, Lore clears out space in his programming to keep Data's thoughts and processes. What we see on screen is a metaphorical representation.

 

[El Maestro]

THe TnG cReW Sat AroUND a TaBle AnD HaD a ConfEReNCe iT'S tOo MucH MeMBerBeRRy NoStaLGiA iT'S DisTrAcTiNG AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

*dies*

 

[Turtletrekker]

One thing I just realized: they destroyed Picard’s biological body when they destroyed the Shrike.

I realized that and saluted.

 

[SG-17]

Still #TeamBorg here. I don't get why Vadic would make such a thing out of Seven being present in that bridge scene with Jack otherwise.

Yeah, it's either Borg or 8472. After that I no longer think it's the Pah-Wraith.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I don't think it will be pah-wraiths or 8472 simply because neither one of them have even been mentioned to set up some dramatic foreshadowing. The Borg have. Bringing up either the other two would come totally out of left field at this point.

 

[El Maestro]

I don't think it will be pah-wraiths or 8472 simply because neither one of them have even been mentioned to set up some dramatic foreshadowing. The Borg have. Bringing up either the other two would come totally out of left field at this point.

Honestly at this point Bev's candle ghost is a more likely scenario than the PW's.

 

[SG-17]

Jack's telepathy and ability to control people is what's throwing me for a loop here with the Borg. There was no indication of tech inside Jack when Bev scanned him, but Irumodic Syndrome. We've seen 8472 use immense mental powers and they are masters of organic technology in a way that the Borg aren't.