Both actually. Ashes is book ended by scenes of Spock at Veridian III. At the end we return to Spock and Kirk's body is beamed away. This scene is again in 'The Return'.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x06 - "The Bounty"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
For me, the ep was a perfect 10! So much to love about this ep. It really felt like a love letter to the entire Star Trek franchise, one that was long overdue IMO.
I loved having the TNG gang back together. There were some great character moments like between Jack and Picard and between Geordi and his daughter.
I thought the fan service made sense. They were at a museum so it made sense to show the old ships. I loved the moment where Seven talks about Voyager. And they played the Voyager theme. Really well done. Moriarty playing a few notes from the tune that Data tried to whistle in Encounter at Farpoint and Riker remembering (they even did a flashback to EaF) was a nice touch.
The new "Data" being a hybrid of Data, Lore, B4 and Lal makes sense in the context of Soong wanting that final legacy. It fits the theme of this season. And Brent did not miss a beat. He nailed the voice of Data and Lore. That scene when he awakens and sees Geordi was so well done. And yes, our Data died. His character arc is done. This is not Data. This is an amalgamation of Data, Lore, B4 and Lal. It represents the sum of the Soong androids. I suspect we will see Geordi able to merge the different personalities and this new "Data" will be something new, a culmination of what Soong wanted for Data and Lore. It will be an epilogue to the Data arc, a sort of closure to the Soong android arc.
Stealing the cloaking device from the Bounty is a great example of using fan service to fit the plot. It really worked. And having Geordi be the one to fix the cloaking decide made sense since he is an engineer. Worf had a great line that made me literally LOL when he said "superior Klingon technology".
I hope we get to see a show with Jack and the Titan and the La Forge daughters. They were great together. Matalas has talked about wanting to do a 25th century show called Star Trek: Legacy. That would be great.
It was fun seeing Shaw geek out when he meets Geordi since they are fellow engineers.
We also some good action and some answers. We know the weapon the changelings stole from Daytstrom is none other than Picard's body. What do they want with it? My guess is they will use him as a trojan horse. Picard was supposed to give a big speech on Frontier Day so he could easily get in and they could use him as a carrier of a virus or something or maybe use dormant nanites still in his body to infect starfleet ships.
Interesting that Vadic shot her fellow changelings. That would appear to be a contradiction since the female founder told Odo that no changeling has ever harmed another (Odo was punished by the Great Link when he killed a changeling in self-defense). But I think it makes sense. That rule was from before when there was perfect unity among the Founders in the Great Link. I think these new changelings are different. They are disconnected from the Great Link. They are desperate to get vengeance against the Federation. The old rules don't apply anymore. And Vadic frankly looks sickly and insane. She might be unwell from being separated from the Great Link for too long.
There was so much in this episode, I am probably missing a ton.
I loved having the TNG gang back together. There were some great character moments like between Jack and Picard and between Geordi and his daughter.
I thought the fan service made sense. They were at a museum so it made sense to show the old ships. I loved the moment where Seven talks about Voyager. And they played the Voyager theme. Really well done. Moriarty playing a few notes from the tune that Data tried to whistle in Encounter at Farpoint and Riker remembering (they even did a flashback to EaF) was a nice touch.
The new "Data" being a hybrid of Data, Lore, B4 and Lal makes sense in the context of Soong wanting that final legacy. It fits the theme of this season. And Brent did not miss a beat. He nailed the voice of Data and Lore. That scene when he awakens and sees Geordi was so well done. And yes, our Data died. His character arc is done. This is not Data. This is an amalgamation of Data, Lore, B4 and Lal. It represents the sum of the Soong androids. I suspect we will see Geordi able to merge the different personalities and this new "Data" will be something new, a culmination of what Soong wanted for Data and Lore. It will be an epilogue to the Data arc, a sort of closure to the Soong android arc.
Stealing the cloaking device from the Bounty is a great example of using fan service to fit the plot. It really worked. And having Geordi be the one to fix the cloaking decide made sense since he is an engineer. Worf had a great line that made me literally LOL when he said "superior Klingon technology".
I hope we get to see a show with Jack and the Titan and the La Forge daughters. They were great together. Matalas has talked about wanting to do a 25th century show called Star Trek: Legacy. That would be great.
It was fun seeing Shaw geek out when he meets Geordi since they are fellow engineers.
We also some good action and some answers. We know the weapon the changelings stole from Daytstrom is none other than Picard's body. What do they want with it? My guess is they will use him as a trojan horse. Picard was supposed to give a big speech on Frontier Day so he could easily get in and they could use him as a carrier of a virus or something or maybe use dormant nanites still in his body to infect starfleet ships.
Interesting that Vadic shot her fellow changelings. That would appear to be a contradiction since the female founder told Odo that no changeling has ever harmed another (Odo was punished by the Great Link when he killed a changeling in self-defense). But I think it makes sense. That rule was from before when there was perfect unity among the Founders in the Great Link. I think these new changelings are different. They are disconnected from the Great Link. They are desperate to get vengeance against the Federation. The old rules don't apply anymore. And Vadic frankly looks sickly and insane. She might be unwell from being separated from the Great Link for too long.
There was so much in this episode, I am probably missing a ton.
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I know some of the snobbier fans want their Trek to be a continuous series of IFC indie films with a Jim Jarmusch feel and as few callbacks as possible because they're not "THAT type of fan" but Star Trek started doing references and callbacks to earlier stories as soon as, well, 1967. Continuity and reminding viewers what came before is just what Star Trek is. Demanding stories be "original and not fanwank" is a fruitless request and frankly one of the more obnoxious requests we as a fanbase have.
I'll be honest; I'm not even sure where to begin with this one.
There were bits I liked and bits I didn't.
Moriarty was not meant to be used as a character return, he resides in the consciousness of Data and therefore provides the perfect security measure, that's all he was meant to be for this episode so lets not be too overly critical about this. Loved the pop goes the weasel to get past him though, nice touch.
How in the blue hell do they have the Genesis torpedo? There was only one made and I'm pretty sure the thing exploded, unless Carol Marcus made another one?
Really unsure how to feel about having Kirks remains, Generations was by far my favourite movie and if they bring him back (bare in mind Shatner has recently said he would return to Kirk in the right circumstance), I think they will undo an ending to the character with I think truly fit him.
I loved the scene between Seven and Jack, as Voyager was my all time favourite series as a kid, this really did pull at me. Also, Jacks scenes this week were actually likeable and bearable! Truly the "Next Generation" Picards kid, Geordi's kids, now we just need Kestra and we'll have the full set.
I am seriously not convinced that this is Beverly Crusher, i'm not one to read into fan theories etc I can only say what I think or feel but this just doesn't feel like Beverly at all.
Worf continues to be an absolute damned delight, really loving his scenes and character right now.
The more I think about it the more i'm convinced Riker is not a Changeling, Deanna could be though but i'm sure Will will ask the right questions just like Seven did with the La Forge shapeshifter.
Hate Raffi still.
Seeing spacedock with those ships was a very light-hearted, feel good moment for me, I could have done without the NX-01 REFIT; always preferred the original. The fact we didn't see ol' 1701-D here I got upset by, seeing Voyager was just a YES even though she didn't have her registry number. The New Jersey I could have done without seeing too, but the Enterprise-A is just a damn sexy ship.
I'm going to keep my opinions on this new Data mishmash to myself, far too Bicentennial Man/R2-D2 with the whole eye thing, really don't know what to make of the whole Picards remains situation either.
All in all, a good episode for some elements, others were self indulgent (New Jersey again) and far too much fan service and sugar for my liking.
4 episodes to go but by far I felt this one was a slight let down after being given the lest 2/3 episodes which were an absolute triumph in my mind.
6/10; somewhat generously.
There were bits I liked and bits I didn't.
Moriarty was not meant to be used as a character return, he resides in the consciousness of Data and therefore provides the perfect security measure, that's all he was meant to be for this episode so lets not be too overly critical about this. Loved the pop goes the weasel to get past him though, nice touch.
How in the blue hell do they have the Genesis torpedo? There was only one made and I'm pretty sure the thing exploded, unless Carol Marcus made another one?
Really unsure how to feel about having Kirks remains, Generations was by far my favourite movie and if they bring him back (bare in mind Shatner has recently said he would return to Kirk in the right circumstance), I think they will undo an ending to the character with I think truly fit him.
I loved the scene between Seven and Jack, as Voyager was my all time favourite series as a kid, this really did pull at me. Also, Jacks scenes this week were actually likeable and bearable! Truly the "Next Generation" Picards kid, Geordi's kids, now we just need Kestra and we'll have the full set.
I am seriously not convinced that this is Beverly Crusher, i'm not one to read into fan theories etc I can only say what I think or feel but this just doesn't feel like Beverly at all.
Worf continues to be an absolute damned delight, really loving his scenes and character right now.
The more I think about it the more i'm convinced Riker is not a Changeling, Deanna could be though but i'm sure Will will ask the right questions just like Seven did with the La Forge shapeshifter.
Hate Raffi still.
Seeing spacedock with those ships was a very light-hearted, feel good moment for me, I could have done without the NX-01 REFIT; always preferred the original. The fact we didn't see ol' 1701-D here I got upset by, seeing Voyager was just a YES even though she didn't have her registry number. The New Jersey I could have done without seeing too, but the Enterprise-A is just a damn sexy ship.
I'm going to keep my opinions on this new Data mishmash to myself, far too Bicentennial Man/R2-D2 with the whole eye thing, really don't know what to make of the whole Picards remains situation either.
All in all, a good episode for some elements, others were self indulgent (New Jersey again) and far too much fan service and sugar for my liking.
4 episodes to go but by far I felt this one was a slight let down after being given the lest 2/3 episodes which were an absolute triumph in my mind.
6/10; somewhat generously.
Trek already did this to the (SNW spoilers)
Beverly augmented Jack to stave off irumodic syndrome, and Vadic needs Jack's magical augment healing blood to revive the corpse of his father.Gorn, so why not ruin another beloved TOS alien?
I'm sorry, but....what? SNW did not ruin that species. It made them legitimately terrifying and a really interesting antagonist species. The depiction in TOS was ridiculous low budget schlock. I loved it! But it was schlock. To say that SNW ruined it is at the very best an argument based on a preference for a certain aesthetic that the franchise left behind decades ago and would not be taken seriously if they used again.
DoN't Put StAr TrEk StUfF iN mY sTaR tReK
It has nothing to do with updated CGI effects. I loved the Gorn cameo in Enterprise and finished the 2013 Star Trek video game that had new, fast Gorn.
It has everything with turning the Gorn into a new one gimmick forcible reproduction horror where all they care about is turning people into breeding sacks, something that was NOT in any of the previous depictions.
That doesn't mean it didn't exist though.
Of course not, but I have to invent reasons why the Gorn captain didn't turn Kirk into a breeding sack and why the ruins of the outpost in the beginning weren't full of humans infected with Gorn eggs.
Sort of like now I have to block out that Crusher is capable of some pretty awful ghosting every time I watch TNG. Sure, the original work is still there and hasn't changed, so I admit the newer episodes are affecting my appreciation of it and that's on me.
How does this ruin them? What should they be?
True. Since we have not gotten a canonical answer yet, I am assuming Sisko is still with the Prophets. Otherwise, it would be a plot hole that the characters have not asked for Sisko's help, especially since a changeling threat directly connects to Sisko from DS9.
I wasn't just BSG....it actually set up the premise for Prodigy!
Sisko's subspace voicemail: Hi, you've reached Benjamin Sisko, Emissary of the Bajoran Prophets. I'm not at a communicator right now, but if you leave your name, subspace address, and a brief message, I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Have a nice day!
Shaw: So much for that.
I like Jack but I’m rather exhausted by his recounting of which traits he got fro his mom and which from his dad. Yes, he’s a charming character, the actor would love to be the star of a Trek spinoff and keep the paychecks coming, and the age factor won’t bother me as much if there’s a time jump of five years or so, but they really need to do more showing and less telling. The same goes for the Sidney LaForge character. I’d definitely watch that show and they could always guest appearances by the moms and dads, including Data 3.0 if they bring back Soji.
I also enjoyed seeing fanboy Liam Shaw speechless with awe at meeting his idol Commodore LaForge.
I also enjoyed seeing fanboy Liam Shaw speechless with awe at meeting his idol Commodore LaForge.
Part of me wishes for this to happen just to see heads explode
You'd think they'd be after Geordi, too. They could weaponize his barrel roll maneuver.
(Wonders if Daystrom has Jim West's remains in storage, too...)
21st century duct tape is still a reference in the 25th century. The duct tape industry should be pretty happy about that.
Also, Starfleet did NOT deliver the cure to the Changelings, Odo did.
As for the "death" of Ro Laren, she had a workaround to the transport inhibitors, no way she's dead. Don't believe that for a second.
As for the "death" of Ro Laren, she had a workaround to the transport inhibitors, no way she's dead. Don't believe that for a second.
If Shaw holds the TNG missions in contempt in general, what exactly about La Forge does he admire? The Enterprises that Geordi served on weren't really doing anything, engineering wise, that other ships weren't already doing. Even Tom Paris designed the Delta Flyer.
Engineering camaraderie.
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