Early Review of Picard Season 3

[StewMc]

I respond to those people that, using that logic, Picard has been dead since season one's Lonely Among Us. He was beamed into the nebula as energy only and had to be recreated through the transporter buffer pattern memory, if I recall correctly. There are flaws in that theory, but there are flaws in the theories that of the people that I'm responding to as well, so it evens out.

It’s in the “golden era” of Trek though that seems to be untouchable to some. There’s even a precedent for what happened to Picard when Ira Graves transferred his consciousness into Data in whatever season 2 episode it was, I don’t remember there being a big discussion on whether it was a transfer or a copy.

I remember there was a bit of backlash about Harry Kim being replaced with his duplicate in “Deadlock” and O’Brien being replaced with his “couple of hours into an alternate timeline” self in “Visionary”. 25+ years later and nobody is bothered now.

Just wait for the outrage when some new show in 2050 tries to completely retcon Picard transferring bodies as a dream or something. “These new writers don’t know Trek at all!”

 

[gvn2fly]

Has Chabon ever talked about why they decided to have Picard go into an android body? They did nothing with it. They did nothing with his illness except have him die and be transferred. So what was the point of it all?

 

[gvn2fly]

And now a major spoiler

Spoiler: An element of STP season 1

The ending of season 1 is partially retconned. Yes Picard is in an android body, but his consciousness was transfered. He's not just a copy of the original Picard

I know for some this will be way too little, but for me it's something I can live with.

That was always the case as far as I considered it. Also fits with what Soong was going to do to himself. I guess the difference here is that season 3 is going to outright say it.

 

[fireproof78]

Has Chabon ever talked about why they decided to have Picard go into an android body? They did nothing with it. They did nothing with his illness except have him die and be transferred. So what was the point of it all?

Sacrifice.

That was always the case as far as I considered it. Also fits with what Soong was going to do to himself. I guess the difference here is that season 3 is going to outright say it.

Apparently it must be spelled out in clear, black and white.

 

[gvn2fly]

Here's the weird thing. I understand the motivation to trash recent Trek to get people to watch PIC Season 3. "The other stuff is trash, but this is good!" But weren't they also doing this with SNW? "The other stuff is trash, but this is good!" Or are these not the same people?

I don't think it's the same people but yea some reviews did state SNW was better and more Trek like than DISCO. I think some of the people praising season 3 have hated all of modern Trek up to this point.

 

[gvn2fly]

Apparently it must be spelled out in clear, black and white.

Like someone said above and I've said repeatedly on social media, I don't understand why people were mad about that but were fine with Spock's consciousness from TOS dying. That TOS+TMP+TWOK consciousness is not the same one we saw in TSOS onward.

 

[RuleofAcuisition17]

It’s in the “golden era” of Trek though that seems to be untouchable to some. There’s even a precedent for what happened to Picard when Ira Graves transferred his consciousness into Data in whatever season 2 episode it was, I don’t remember there being a big discussion on whether it was a transfer or a copy.

I remember there was a bit of backlash about Harry Kim being replaced with his duplicate in “Deadlock” and O’Brien being replaced with his “couple of hours into an alternate timeline” self in “Visionary”. 25+ years later and nobody is bothered now.

Just wait for the outrage when some new show in 2050 tries to completely retcon Picard transferring bodies as a dream or something. “These new writers don’t know Trek at all!”

I'd also argue poor writing is still poor writing. There's some parts of every show which are wobbly since TOS. The thing is, we can "isolate" and almost purge away the bad writing as just an off episode or so and I suspect people do do that. It becomes rather more fatal when its a long form show and what could've been just a 45 minute blip suddenly becomes 4-5 hours of content that can even be outright painful for someone to watch.

In terms of shows? DS9 remains lightning in a bottle largely because they were left alone to write it, and ages well with time because the tastes of audiences (and technology) has moved enough to properly appreciate the longform story. I'd even argue DS9 and Enterprise don't work on normal television because details can easily be forgotten in a week of busy lives, but when you can settle down after dinner and watch 2-3 episodes a night? It becomes something more.

The issue comes when you get stuck on a plotline that can come across poorly and you're kind of stuck with it. The Temporal Cold War from ENT, and Seasons 1 and 2 of DISCO suffer different things differently (as it tries to marry Kelvin elements to Prime timeline) and Picard's Two seasons had an obsession with the Borg.

Like, I do look at Voyager a little differently than when I watched it as a kid (you notice a lot more of the wonkyness) so maybe its just me being an (honouray) old curmudgeon.

 

[Anduinel]

Has Chabon ever talked about why they decided to have Picard go into an android body? They did nothing with it. They did nothing with his illness except have him die and be transferred. So what was the point of it all?

IIRC, Chabon said on his socmed that the importance of Picard becoming a synth was to show his conviction that synthetic life was no less valuable than organic life. Which is pretty much undermined by the fact that Picard had no agency in the decision, imo. But I suspect it's one of those things that might have worked in a novel where we could have gotten some interiority with the characters as opposed to just seeing Picard seemingly OK with the whole affair.

 

[fireproof78]

The thing is, we can "isolate" and almost purge away the bad writing as just an off episode or so and I suspect people do do that.

I still do. Long form doesn't mean I am somehow less likely to purge away bad writing. In point of fact, it's a habit due to watching TOS on VHS and having that "back to back" sense of some things not fitting and they stick out. So, I roll more easily with it, rather than treating it as "all bad." Because, it's rarely all bad, and it's rarely all good.

 

[NCC-73515]

Has Chabon ever talked about why they decided to have Picard go into an android body? They did nothing with it. They did nothing with his illness except have him die and be transferred. So what was the point of it all?

To cure him

 

[Jayson1]

Every Star Trek character dies whenever they use a transporter and is then replaced with a cloned copy with the previous copies old memories still intact. Don't we know this to be true.

 

[gvn2fly]

To cure him

I get that..but I also meant why make his death imminent? I'm assuming just to tie in to the syndrome from All Good Things? Soong was also a genius so could have cured Picard another way.

I'm wondering if they intended to do more with Picared as an android to show how he was no different from the other synthetics Starfleet feared or if it was just so they could have that scene between Picard and Data. Just curious what the whole Behind the Scenes thought process for it all was.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't think it's the same people but yea some reviews did state SNW was better and more Trek like than DISCO. I think some of the people praising season 3 have hated all of modern Trek up to this point.

Got it. Whatever gets them to where they need to be.

 

[fireproof78]

I get that..but I also meant why make his death imminent? I'm assuming just to tie in to the syndrome from All Good Things? Soong was also a genius so could have cured Picard another way.

I'm wondering if they intended to do more with Picared as an android to show how he was no different from the other synthetics Starfleet feared or if it was just so they could have that scene between Picard and Data. Just curious what the whole Behind the Scenes thought process for it all was.

Again, sacrifice. How far is Jean Luc willing to go in the name of this new civilization? How much will he risk?

 

[eschaton]

I feel like in Season One they gave Stewart an escape hatch in case he decided he was one and done.

 

[James Cole]

Having listened to his thoughts, I trust him more than RMB. Since he is in the same sphere as that other known YT critic that called PIC S3 a disaster without watching. But unlike that critic, he seems to be impressed with PIC S3.

&

I still wish they had done the premiere episodes to various theaters around the country but considering Dave Cullen has been lumped in with the Nerderotics and Critical Drinkers (And I confess I do watch Critical Drinker from time to time) his glowing review speaks a little more volume than others who eat, live, and breathe Trek in this modern generation.

It's hilarious to think even RMB changing tracks wasn't credible enough to sell season 3 to the alienated legacy fanbase. While I may disagree with many of his takes, the Drinker is a very important thought provoking voice in the conversation. And yeah, that one critic has built up an unsustainable position.

Yeah, they weren't ambiguous about it at all. People just wanted something to hate.

FWIW, up until this year I'd assumed they really had killed him off and replaced with an android copy based on all the YouTube coverage. It was not clear in the episode. The season 1 showrunner had established a ton of bad faith with the fanbase, making the worst completely believable after what was done to Icheb and Hugh, even if direct consciousness transfer was always the plan.

Here's the weird thing. I understand the motivation to trash recent Trek to get people to watch PIC Season 3. "The other stuff is trash, but this is good!" But weren't they also doing this with SNW? "The other stuff is trash, but this is good!" Or are these not the same people?

It annoyed the Hell out of me with SNW, but oddly it doesn't annoy me here. I don't know if it's because I like PIC better than SNW or if it's more I really do think Picard Season 3 will be THAT good, whereas I didn't get that sense with SNW.

EDITED TO ADD: Under normal circumstances, I'd consider this setting expectations for people too high. In this circumstance, I think you have to hype it up this much just to move the needle with certain people at all.

I think DISCOVERY is a toxic "unmitigated disaster". SNW is only half as bad. Whereas since I was a fan of 12 MONKEYS and have listened to hours and hours of behind the scenes podcasts with Terry Matalas, I was much more willing to give STP season 2 a chance, and even in it's worst moments could see how Terry was able to make some kind of positive contribution there. So I can't really comment on this one since I have a skewed perspective that doesn't neatly fit into a "side", just to say that there obviously wasn't as a win back the classic fans campaign like we're seeing here.

I'd also argue poor writing is still poor writing. There's some parts of every show which are wobbly since TOS. The thing is, we can "isolate" and almost purge away the bad writing as just an off episode or so and I suspect people do do that. It becomes rather more fatal when its a long form show and what could've been just a 45 minute blip suddenly becomes 4-5 hours of content that can even be outright painful for someone to watch.

Plus STP season 1 was massively messing with VGR characters. It's not one bad episode you have to bleep out, it's decades in universe.

 

[fireproof78]

Plus STP season 1 was massively messing with VGR characters. It's not one bad episode you have to bleep out, it's decades in universe.

So, like I do with ENT?

 

[James Cole]

So, like I do with ENT?

Which legacy characters did ENT kill off? Did ENT essentially overwrite an entire fellow TV series in universe? 97% of the time ENT stayed in its lane. I mean I guess you could have a case over Romulan cloaking devices or the NX-01 model being conspicuously absent or why didn't the computer have records of the Ferengi or the Borg, but ENT season 4 more than makes up for the weaknesses in say season 2.

 

[Tuskin38]

Did ENT essentially overwrite an entire fellow TV series in universe?

No, but neither did Picard.

 

[fireproof78]

Which legacy characters did ENT kill off? Did ENT essentially overwrite an entire fellow TV series in universe? 97% of the time ENT stayed in its lane. I mean I guess you could have a case over Romulan cloaking devices or the NX-01 model being conspicuously absent or why didn't the computer have records of the Ferengi or the Borg, but ENT season 4 more than makes up for the weaknesses in say season 2.

I wasn't aware those were the parameters. I find ENT rather incompatable with the rest of the Trek universe, largely from a character and development point of view. Legacy characters dying is not something I find worthy of ignoring, nor do I see things overwritten. Characters dying comes straight from Gene so my difficulty with that is far less than say dumb characters.

My larger point is that if fans are willing tolerate poor outings then Season 1 of Picard is just as tolerable as ENT's poor outings, or TNG swings and misses. Yes, I know, mileage will vary and I am way to generous when it comes to accepting bad outings in my Star Trek. I'm a bad fan