Spoilers Black Panther Wakanda Forever

[Morpheus 02]

it wasn't just that post, but it's been a long running complaint, which clearly a whole lot of people disagree with.

The tone has been like a religious fundementalist.

 

[kirk55555]

I do have a history of not liking Anti-Vax idiots and not wanting to support their films, I've made similar comments about Ant-Man: Quantumania, which I won't financially support because of Evangeline Lily (who just recently posted more right wing conspiracy stuff, because she's an asshole in multiple different ways).

But, again, just like with Wakanda Forever I didn't call for a boycott of Quantumania movie either, I never said that it won't make money, I never even said it couldn't be a good movie overall. I would just personally feel gross spending money to support people with beliefs like Wright or Lily, especially since they're not just cameos or small roles, they're both at least co-leads in their respective films.

Mathematically, at this point, I know that almost every movie is going to have idiots or assholes working on them in some positions, but Co-lead is a big enough position that I just can't support it. I'll watch the movies when they come to Disney+, and I don't have bad feelings toward people who pay to see the films (since its not like the Directors/writers/other actors are necessarily in the same group of idiots as Wright and Lily), but it just crosses a line for me personally.

Anything else you take from my posts about this is your own weird made up problems, and not my responsibility.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

I gave up after like 40 minutes of boredom.

I rewatched the first one before attempting Wakanda Forever. I still really liked it!

I feel like it ended on such a high note with a positive future ahead for T’Challa and his people that after Chadwick Boseman’s death, they should have kept the first movie as a standalone.

 

[Anwar]

So it's just been released on Disney+ and I've finally seen it.

I thought I'd like it, but I liked it 10x more than I thought I would.

I have one question about Namor: I haven't been following comics in years. There's a lot of revision of Namor in the film, was any of this in the comics?

I like the film either way, just curious.

No, not really. In the comics his origin is essentially the same as Aquamans (although Namor came first), he's the child of a Irishman and a Underwater Princess. They chose to do something original with this take.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No, not really. In the comics his origin is essentially the same as Aquamans (although Namor came first), he's the child of a Irishman and a Underwater Princess. They chose to do something original with this take.

I believe his father was an American and McKenzie is a Scots name,

 

[Dee1891]

No, not really. In the comics his origin is essentially the same as Aquamans (although Namor came first), he's the child of a Irishman and a Underwater Princess. They chose to do something original with this take.

I'm not surprised. Namor was created two years before Aquaman.

 

[Nombrecomun]

For whatever it's worth, Wakanda Forever is a lovely tribute to Boseman. It's not how they wanted these movies to go but reality intruded in a rude way and they had to make the best of it.

Having said that, I see no reason to continue Black Panther movies. This movie closes off the Wakanda story afaic. None of what was presented was compelling enough for me to want to see more from this cast. For sure inclusion of Namor in other movies and a Wakanda character here and there but that's about it.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I finally saw this the day it dropped on Disney Plus, and I have been hesitant to share my thoughts because I haven't really known how to put them into words. It missed for me.

It felt unfocused and just a little cluttered. It felt like it struggled to find a lead character until the final act of the movie, and then that character never fully possessed the story as her own. I imagine it doesn't help my opinion that Angela Bassett stole every scene that she was in and I was deeply disappointed when they killed her off. Leticia Wright simply does not have Angela Bassett's gravitas and I felt that she struggled to carry the movie on her own.

This is why I've been hesitant to post my opinions on the movie. I have posted my concerns about some of the things that Leticia Wright has publicly stated in this thread in the past, and I endeavored to separate the art from the artist, but I can say that even I'm not entirely sure if I was completely successful in this instance. I will certainly give the movie another shot down the line to reevaluate, but I felt no immediate need or desire to do so after the first viewing, which I usually do to look for Easter eggs.

I thought that Namor was well realized and adapted for the MCU and I look forward to seeing more developments on this front. And he said the thing!

The stuff with Ross and Val seemed tacked on and unnecessary to the larger story.

The introduction T'Challa's son was so out of the blue (and convenient?)that it just made me shrug.

I didn't dislike the Ironheart stuff, but a large part of her story also seemed tacked on to the larger story being told. Maybe her origin would have been better served in a Disney plus show. What? She's getting one? Then why short change her characters origin here?

On a personal note, Ironheart is the first major character from the comics to be introduced to the MCU that I had never read a single comic that the character appeared in. Even Kamala had appeared in a Spider-Man two-parter that I had read.

 

[theenglish]

Although I really loved this movie, I have to agree that it could have done without Ironheart, Ross and Val. It seems that they were just there to promote upcoming MCU stories.

 

[The Knappos]

I have posted my concerns about some of the things that Leticia Wright has publicly stated in this thread in the past, and I endeavored to separate the art from the artist, but I can say that even I'm not entirely sure if I was completely successful in this instance.

Did you chuckle like I did at the irony in that scene where there are four characters on screen, Shuri and three of Namor's folks and the other three are all wearing face masks?

 

[Mage]

I finally saw this the day it dropped on Disney Plus, and I have been hesitant to share my thoughts because I haven't really known how to put them into words. It missed for me.

It felt unfocused and just a little cluttered. It felt like it struggled to find a lead character until the final act of the movie, and then that character never fully possessed the story as her own. I imagine it doesn't help my opinion that Angela Bassett stole every scene that she was in and I was deeply disappointed when they killed her off. Leticia Wright simply does not have Angela Bassett's gravitas and I felt that she struggled to carry the movie on her own.

This is why I've been hesitant to post my opinions on the movie. I have posted my concerns about some of the things that Leticia Wright has publicly stated in this thread in the past, and I endeavored to separate the art from the artist, but I can say that even I'm not entirely sure if I was completely successful in this instance. I will certainly give the movie another shot down the line to reevaluate, but I felt no immediate need or desire to do so after the first viewing, which I usually do to look for Easter eggs.

I thought that Namor was well realized and adapted for the MCU and I look forward to seeing more developments on this front. And he said the thing!

The stuff with Ross and Val seemed tacked on and unnecessary to the larger story.

The introduction T'Challa's son was so out of the blue (and convenient?)that it just made me shrug.

I didn't dislike the Ironheart stuff, but a large part of her story also seemed tacked on to the larger story being told. Maybe her origin would have been better served in a Disney plus show. What? She's getting one? Then why short change her characters origin here?

On a personal note, Ironheart is the first major character from the comics to be introduced to the MCU that I had never read a single comic that the character appeared in. Even Kamala had appeared in a Spider-Man two-parter that I had read.

I very much agree with your thoughts and opinions. The movie wasn't bad in on itself, but so many things just didn't land for me.
The idea of a character trying to use scientific methods to find a cure for her brother while the actress playing her is opposing the same concept.... Feels very wrong.

I know nothing of Namor from reading comics, obscure title/character in the Netherlands. But I enjoyed the character and performance a lot. Looking forward to more. Ironheart was just massive cringe for me, hopefully the show will be better.

What mostly did it for me.....
Superhero movies are always packed with big special effects, that's absolutely a thing. But it feels like they are taking over characters and plot with each and every movie. It's not about what story can we tell, where do we want these characters to go. No, it's about making things even bigger and MORE than the previous movies. And here, in this movie, where it was so much about personal struggle and finding one's own footing, the final act was just all about massive cgi battles and what not. It failed to miss more potent marks.

 

[StarMan]

I gave up after like 40 minutes of boredom.

I rewatched the first one before attempting Wakanda Forever. I still really liked it!

I feel like it ended on such a high note with a positive future ahead for T’Challa and his people that after Chadwick Boseman’s death, they should have kept the first movie as a standalone.

That's about where I've stopped watching - bored and irritated by the quippy dialogue (not a good fit for these characters, IMO).

 

[FreezeC77]

I think an ongoing problem that just gets worse with the MCU is shoehorning in characters/plots just because you want to set-up another project. Now with the Disney+ sphere it's happening even more frequently and taking up more of the movie.

Obviously Chadwick Boseman was a massive part of what made Black Panther great, but it was everything else about Wakanda that went with it. The different tribes and rituals and seeing what 'might have been' if an African nation had been able to develop without being pillaged by outside forces and actually gain technological advantages over the 'western world'.

They tried to 're-do' that theme with the Talokan development/existence so it makes it a bit less interesting since we've seen it done once already.

Character wise I don't really care very much about Shuri as Black Panther moving forward. That's probably the biggest problem with the movie is the story/arc for a character that I've already lost interest in.

I would have actually liked to have seen more exploration as to what happened at the end of Black Panther where we saw Killmonger did have an impact on Wakanda opening itself up and actually trying to help the descendants of the slaves who were taken from Africa.

I'm kind of curious if that was what was going in Haiti. You can just look at the news for the last decade and see it's been a downhill trajectory and now it doesn't even have a functional government. I wonder if in the MCU you saw Wakanda step in and that's why Nakia feels safe raising T'challa's son there.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Did you chuckle like I did at the irony in that scene where there are four characters on screen, Shuri and three of Namor's folks and the other three are all wearing face masks?

That actually escaped my notice. I'll keep an eye out for it when I do my eventual rewatch.

 

[Anwar]

The stuff with Ross and Val seemed tacked on and unnecessary to the larger story.

I don't know why people keep saying that. Their scenes 100% Justify Wakanda and Namor's attitudes because it shows how a high ranking Government official makes it clear that, yes, the US really does want Wakanda and Talokan's Vibranium and really is fine with stripmining those places. It's not Hydra, it's not some secret illegal faction, it's the CIA itself that wants this. It's the US Government that's doing this

 

[Turtletrekker]

I don't know why people keep saying that. Their scenes 100% Justify Wakanda and Namor's attitudes because it shows how a high ranking Government official makes it clear that, yes, the US really does want Wakanda and Talokan's Vibranium and really is fine with stripmining those places. It's not Hydra, it's not some secret illegal faction, it's the CIA itself that wants this. It's the US Government that's doing this

The first scene with Ross, Shuri and Okoye was sufficient enough to establish that. Everything beyond that seems superfluous.

 

[kirk55555]

I finally saw this the day it dropped on Disney Plus, and I have been hesitant to share my thoughts because I haven't really known how to put them into words. It missed for me.

It felt unfocused and just a little cluttered. It felt like it struggled to find a lead character until the final act of the movie, and then that character never fully possessed the story as her own. I imagine it doesn't help my opinion that Angela Bassett stole every scene that she was in and I was deeply disappointed when they killed her off. Leticia Wright simply does not have Angela Bassett's gravitas and I felt that she struggled to carry the movie on her own.

This is why I've been hesitant to post my opinions on the movie. I have posted my concerns about some of the things that Leticia Wright has publicly stated in this thread in the past, and I endeavored to separate the art from the artist, but I can say that even I'm not entirely sure if I was completely successful in this instance. I will certainly give the movie another shot down the line to reevaluate, but I felt no immediate need or desire to do so after the first viewing, which I usually do to look for Easter eggs.

I thought that Namor was well realized and adapted for the MCU and I look forward to seeing more developments on this front. And he said the thing!

The stuff with Ross and Val seemed tacked on and unnecessary to the larger story.

The introduction T'Challa's son was so out of the blue (and convenient?)that it just made me shrug.

I didn't dislike the Ironheart stuff, but a large part of her story also seemed tacked on to the larger story being told. Maybe her origin would have been better served in a Disney plus show. What? She's getting one? Then why short change her characters origin here?

On a personal note, Ironheart is the first major character from the comics to be introduced to the MCU that I had never read a single comic that the character appeared in. Even Kamala had appeared in a Spider-Man two-parter that I had read.

This matches my thoughts pretty closely. Having finally seen in on D+, even if I didn't have the problems that I do with Letitia Wright I'd still find the movie a bit aimless and kind of just a mediocre mess. I do really want to see more of Namor, but besides that the film just kind of exists for me. I don't hate it, unlike films like The Eternals or Ant-Man & The Wasp, but I don't care for it and doubt I'll ever rewatch it unless I'm doing a full MCU rewatch.

Actually, my feelings on Wakanda Forever generally match my feelings on Black Widow now that I think about it, both being mediocre and mostly forgettable, with one or two standout characters, that I don't hate but will probably not care to rewatch.

 

[Mage]

I don't know why people keep saying that. Their scenes 100% Justify Wakanda and Namor's attitudes because it shows how a high ranking Government official makes it clear that, yes, the US really does want Wakanda and Talokan's Vibranium and really is fine with stripmining those places. It's not Hydra, it's not some secret illegal faction, it's the CIA itself that wants this. It's the US Government that's doing this

The first scene with Ross, Shuri and Okoye was sufficient enough to establish that. Everything beyond that seems superfluous.

What Turtletrekker is saying is 100% correct. Throughout the movie we get repetitions of what was established already. As if we're all numbnuts that need to be exposed to previously established plotlines just so we don't get lost in all the CGI overload.

 

[CaptainWacky]

At one point I thought it was going to be revealed that Val had manipulated the entire conflict between Wakanda and Talokan from the start, that the US govenerment was actively seeking to bring two foreign nations to war. That would have been interesting, but they weren't willing to go that far with it so in the end I just had a "so what?" reaction to all the Val/Ross stuff.

 

[Anwar]

At one point I thought it was going to be revealed that Val had manipulated the entire conflict between Wakanda and Talokan from the start, that the US govenerment was actively seeking to bring two foreign nations to war. That would have been interesting, but they weren't willing to go that far with it so in the end I just had a "so what?" reaction to all the Val/Ross stuff.

It was to protect Ross' character so he could be reused as a heroic figure in Secret Invasion and future BP projects, by having him become a criminal to the US and have to be rescued by Wakandans and leave with them.