Eh...it's close but not perfect.
Unseen TOS....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
The sleeker version of the Falcon in the Solo movie has a similar aesthetic.
Closer and definitely better than the original MF aesthetic. But, still not like what I want. I've seen some interpretations around the interwebz but nothing that quite captures what I imagining.
You work is always superb and worth the wait!
Okay, full disclosure: I’m tidying up the BoP graphic a bit.
If we can assume the original BoP Wah Chang built still “disappeared” then lets also assume, in keeping with the conceit of this project, they managed to make a second miniature for “The Deadly Years” and “The Enterprise Incident.” In keeping with that notion then we can imagine they added a couple of tweaks (such as I’ve added) and the bird-of-prey graphic was a wee bit different than the original.
Stay tuned…
If we can assume the original BoP Wah Chang built still “disappeared” then lets also assume, in keeping with the conceit of this project, they managed to make a second miniature for “The Deadly Years” and “The Enterprise Incident.” In keeping with that notion then we can imagine they added a couple of tweaks (such as I’ve added) and the bird-of-prey graphic was a wee bit different than the original.
Stay tuned…
Have you ever tried to make a model and give the impression it's in mid-cloak?
I can do that in Photoshop. I’m not sure how I could do that with the model itself.
Here we are.
I darkened the main hull colour a bit more--magnesium with a bit of blue added rather than the previous silver. I tidied up the hull graphics some and from a distance and at first glance the graphics look pretty much the same as the original, and overall it is. But if you really know the graphic in detail then you might spot the differences. More specifically I tidied up the arrangement of wing feathers, the crest on the breast, the graphics on the upper surface of the wing pylons and the tailfin as well as more clearly defined the talons.
I darkened the main hull colour a bit more--magnesium with a bit of blue added rather than the previous silver. I tidied up the hull graphics some and from a distance and at first glance the graphics look pretty much the same as the original, and overall it is. But if you really know the graphic in detail then you might spot the differences. More specifically I tidied up the arrangement of wing feathers, the crest on the breast, the graphics on the upper surface of the wing pylons and the tailfin as well as more clearly defined the talons.
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I found the same thing with my attempt to model the BoP. It is one of the most satisfying aspects of 3D modeling when little details like this "fall out" in the process. You discover nuances and complexities of form you never suspected; but which are absolutely necessary to the design. Similar things happened when I modeled the Galileo.
I also agree with you on the TOS aesthetic. Many of the more recent designs look less advanced and futuristic than what TOS gave us. I'm all for hewing to the TOS design principles, merely fleshing them out and giving ourselves a better look at them. In my own projects, my strategy is to make sure any additional detail I add will be unnoticeable if viewed from a distance. It lets me imagine if the original cameramen had come in for a closer look, this is what we might have seen; but a similarly composed shot to the one used will look pretty much like original footage.
M.
I recall learning the differences between my first AMT model of the Enterprise and what I was seeing on the screen. I experienced the same thing after getting my first copy of the Franz Joseph blueprints and his technical manual.
These reveals underlined how my drawings seemed so close and yet never looked quite right no matter how painstaking I was. I’d then learn of some new detail I must have been seeing unconsciously yet not with full awareness and there’d be an “Ah ha!” moment. From then on I’d be hyper aware of that detail and could no longer look past it.
This was really revealing with all the discussion, particularly with Gary Kerr’s involvement, leading up to the release of Polar Lights’ 1/1000 and I/350 TOS Enterprise model kits. And again when the original 11 footer was restored to her series production condition.
While modelling the BoP I’ve been thinking about the Romulans and their apparent level of technology, at least during the events of “Balance Of Terror.” The ship proves to be inferior to the Enterprise in most every significant way. But one thing in particular not addressed—at that time do the Romulans have transporter technology?
We can assume they do at the time of “The Enterprise Incident” because the Romulans are then using Klingon ships and thus then current Klingon technology (and we know since “Errand Of Mercy” the Klingons have transporters).
At the end of “Balance Of Terror” Kirk tells the Romulan Commander the Enterprise is prepared to beam Romulan survivors off the wrecked BoP. The Commander doesn’t react to the remark of “beaming.” Either he didn’t understand what Kirk was saying yet let it pass because he had other things on his mind (like total and humiliating defeat) or he didn’t react because he immediately understood what Kirk was saying.
We can assume the Enterprise’s universal translator was tied into communications because it’s not likely any of the Romulans knew English particularly after a century of silence. Assuming the Romulans had their own translation system then how well would it have translated Kirk’s words? And after a century of silence how well would the Enterprise’s universal translator have understood the current Romulan language? The suggestion/subtext of the episode is that Spock’s knowledge of then current Vulcan and it’s dialects isn’t sufficient to immediately translate the Romulan language.
We see Kirk and the Romulan commander speak to each other with ease, but thats a creative conceit for the sake of the audience. In reality, even with good translation systems, I doubt it would happen that effortlessly.
So I come back to wondering if the Romulan commander really understood what Kirk said and if, at that time, the Romulans had transporter technology yet.
These reveals underlined how my drawings seemed so close and yet never looked quite right no matter how painstaking I was. I’d then learn of some new detail I must have been seeing unconsciously yet not with full awareness and there’d be an “Ah ha!” moment. From then on I’d be hyper aware of that detail and could no longer look past it.
This was really revealing with all the discussion, particularly with Gary Kerr’s involvement, leading up to the release of Polar Lights’ 1/1000 and I/350 TOS Enterprise model kits. And again when the original 11 footer was restored to her series production condition.
While modelling the BoP I’ve been thinking about the Romulans and their apparent level of technology, at least during the events of “Balance Of Terror.” The ship proves to be inferior to the Enterprise in most every significant way. But one thing in particular not addressed—at that time do the Romulans have transporter technology?
We can assume they do at the time of “The Enterprise Incident” because the Romulans are then using Klingon ships and thus then current Klingon technology (and we know since “Errand Of Mercy” the Klingons have transporters).
At the end of “Balance Of Terror” Kirk tells the Romulan Commander the Enterprise is prepared to beam Romulan survivors off the wrecked BoP. The Commander doesn’t react to the remark of “beaming.” Either he didn’t understand what Kirk was saying yet let it pass because he had other things on his mind (like total and humiliating defeat) or he didn’t react because he immediately understood what Kirk was saying.
We can assume the Enterprise’s universal translator was tied into communications because it’s not likely any of the Romulans knew English particularly after a century of silence. Assuming the Romulans had their own translation system then how well would it have translated Kirk’s words? And after a century of silence how well would the Enterprise’s universal translator have understood the current Romulan language? The suggestion/subtext of the episode is that Spock’s knowledge of then current Vulcan and it’s dialects isn’t sufficient to immediately translate the Romulan language.
We see Kirk and the Romulan commander speak to each other with ease, but thats a creative conceit for the sake of the audience. In reality, even with good translation systems, I doubt it would happen that effortlessly.
So I come back to wondering if the Romulan commander really understood what Kirk said and if, at that time, the Romulans had transporter technology yet.
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Given that a peace treaty was negotiated over subspace which usually includes very specific legalese language it would be safe to assume that the universal translators the Enterprise and Romulans have are sufficient for easy communication. We don't know when in TOS transporters were created though but it would be reasonable that Romulans monitored communications on the other side of the zone and probably heard of the development of transporters and transporter dialogue.
So it is highly likely that the Romulan Commander understood what Kirk was saying.
As to Spock's ability to translate that was an assumption from Stiles. From the dialogue, the communication sent by Decius was "in code" and Spock had to send the recorded communication to cryptography to decode it. Only the visual of the Romulan bridge appeared to be unencrypted so that could be a weak link in the Romulan comm system where it could leak a visual stream. If Spock has unencrypted communication he probably could've translated it but you'd think that Vulcans would've recognized similarities in the Romulan language unless the Vulcans were never involved in the Earth-Romulan War and only joined the Federation recently...
So it is highly likely that the Romulan Commander understood what Kirk was saying.
As to Spock's ability to translate that was an assumption from Stiles. From the dialogue, the communication sent by Decius was "in code" and Spock had to send the recorded communication to cryptography to decode it. Only the visual of the Romulan bridge appeared to be unencrypted so that could be a weak link in the Romulan comm system where it could leak a visual stream. If Spock has unencrypted communication he probably could've translated it but you'd think that Vulcans would've recognized similarities in the Romulan language unless the Vulcans were never involved in the Earth-Romulan War and only joined the Federation recently...
^^ You raise some interesting points.
At the time of TOS’ production no one knows when the Federation was established or when the Vulcans were first encountered. Both fanon and TNG: FC peg the Vulcans as the first species Earth encounters, although fanon and “official” Trek differ on how it happened (I prefer the fanon viewpoint).
But subtext in TOS suggests the Federation might be only some decades old rather than a century. And Vulcans might not have been the first species Earth encountered. And/or the Vulcans simply elected not to get involved in Earth’s war with an unknown enemy. One can speculate on whether the Vulcans might have suspected who Earth was fighting yet chose to keep their thoughts to themselves and avoid risking any possible conflict with their newly encountered “friends.”
It does sort of make sense that Vulcans were the first species encountered if we accept 40 Eridani as the Vulcan home system. At about 16 light years distant it’s pretty close to Earth. TOS seems to suggest that Earth moved out into space on our own (an understandable viewpoint from a 1960’s perspective) and that Earth and Vulcan were roughly on the same technological level. But later “official” Trek rewrites that as Vulcan definitely having a significant technological edge early on and nursemaiding Earth along. If so then doesn’t Vulcan have its own form of Prime Directive and are they not violating it by revealing themselves to a technologically inferior species and sharing advanced knowledge with them? That never struck me as well thought out.
At the time of TOS’ production no one knows when the Federation was established or when the Vulcans were first encountered. Both fanon and TNG: FC peg the Vulcans as the first species Earth encounters, although fanon and “official” Trek differ on how it happened (I prefer the fanon viewpoint).
But subtext in TOS suggests the Federation might be only some decades old rather than a century. And Vulcans might not have been the first species Earth encountered. And/or the Vulcans simply elected not to get involved in Earth’s war with an unknown enemy. One can speculate on whether the Vulcans might have suspected who Earth was fighting yet chose to keep their thoughts to themselves and avoid risking any possible conflict with their newly encountered “friends.”
It does sort of make sense that Vulcans were the first species encountered if we accept 40 Eridani as the Vulcan home system. At about 16 light years distant it’s pretty close to Earth. TOS seems to suggest that Earth moved out into space on our own (an understandable viewpoint from a 1960’s perspective) and that Earth and Vulcan were roughly on the same technological level. But later “official” Trek rewrites that as Vulcan definitely having a significant technological edge early on and nursemaiding Earth along. If so then doesn’t Vulcan have its own form of Prime Directive and are they not violating it by revealing themselves to a technologically inferior species and sharing advanced knowledge with them? That never struck me as well thought out.
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Cochrane recognizes Spock as Vulcan in "Metamorphosis", which means that first contact was at least 150 years ago. However, Vulcans were still super mysterious to humans, which would indicate not knowing them very well for those 150 years. "Amok Time" was also Kirk and McCoy's first visit to Vulcan, yet both had previously visited seemingly way more obscure places. I think this suggests Vulcan was probably farther away than 16 ly.
I think TOS definitely suggested that Earth moved into to space on its own. I'm in the camp that Earth had established its first colony on Alpha Centauri (more likely Proxima Centauri b), that's where Cochrane invented the warp drive, then mankind proceeded to colonize other M-class planets within maybe 20 ly of Earth. It was during this period that they started bumping into other galactic civilizations, including the Vulcans.
I think TOS definitely suggested that Earth moved into to space on its own. I'm in the camp that Earth had established its first colony on Alpha Centauri (more likely Proxima Centauri b), that's where Cochrane invented the warp drive, then mankind proceeded to colonize other M-class planets within maybe 20 ly of Earth. It was during this period that they started bumping into other galactic civilizations, including the Vulcans.
Yeah, TNG:FC shows the Vulcans making contact with Earth in 2063 or 202 years before TOS (assuming 2265 as TOS Y1). With the Earth-Romulan War taking place over a 100 years before TOS then it would make the Vulcans look very duplicitous to not intervene or identify the Romulans during the war. Granted it is possible that somehow when the Romulans left for the stars thousands of years ago either they or the remaining Vulcans completely re-invented themselves, their culture and language to be unrecognizable to each other in the future.
OTOH, if we ignore TNG:FC retconning the scope of Zefram Cochrane to being just the discoverer of space warp for Earth and went with "Metamorphosis" where he is the discoverer of the space warp and "revered throughout the known galaxy" it changes up some of the connections. In "Metamorphosis", Zefram identified Kirk, McCoy as "Earth people" by their use of English language and Spock visually as "Vulcan" but had to ask so it would suggest that he had not met a Vulcan in person. So we could say that Alpha Centurians were aware of Vulcans at least 150 years prior to TOS based on Zefram's "death" timeframe but neither the Alpha Centurians or Terrans were in close contact with Vulcans until perhaps after the Earth-Romulan War. It also wouldn't hurt to have the development of practical warp engines to take decades resulting in warp drives spreading through the galaxy only after the Earth-Romulan War. IMHO
OTOH, if we ignore TNG:FC retconning the scope of Zefram Cochrane to being just the discoverer of space warp for Earth and went with "Metamorphosis" where he is the discoverer of the space warp and "revered throughout the known galaxy" it changes up some of the connections. In "Metamorphosis", Zefram identified Kirk, McCoy as "Earth people" by their use of English language and Spock visually as "Vulcan" but had to ask so it would suggest that he had not met a Vulcan in person. So we could say that Alpha Centurians were aware of Vulcans at least 150 years prior to TOS based on Zefram's "death" timeframe but neither the Alpha Centurians or Terrans were in close contact with Vulcans until perhaps after the Earth-Romulan War. It also wouldn't hurt to have the development of practical warp engines to take decades resulting in warp drives spreading through the galaxy only after the Earth-Romulan War. IMHO
We covered some of this way upthread I think. I like the idea, suggested in TOS, that Earth got itself into interstellar space yet progress after Cochrane’s space warp development was somewhat plodding until the better warp drives in the 23rd century.
James Blish’s adaptation of “Balance Of Terror” suggests Earth and Vulcan were already in contact during the Earth Romulan war—did he put that in there or was it referenced in an early script draft? Blish’s time period for the E/R war suggests it started about a century prior and lasted about twenty-five years (possibly due to the “primitive” ships of the time and the protracted flight times even at FTL?). This doesn’t contradict the references in”Balance Of Terror” saying the war happened “a century ago.” I must say I really like this idea rather than the “official” chronology pegging the war lasting only a few years.
I also like the idea of the E/R war being a significant impetus to form the UFP. That could mean the Federation would be only 50-70 years old by the time of TOS.
James Blish’s adaptation of “Balance Of Terror” suggests Earth and Vulcan were already in contact during the Earth Romulan war—did he put that in there or was it referenced in an early script draft? Blish’s time period for the E/R war suggests it started about a century prior and lasted about twenty-five years (possibly due to the “primitive” ships of the time and the protracted flight times even at FTL?). This doesn’t contradict the references in”Balance Of Terror” saying the war happened “a century ago.” I must say I really like this idea rather than the “official” chronology pegging the war lasting only a few years.
I also like the idea of the E/R war being a significant impetus to form the UFP. That could mean the Federation would be only 50-70 years old by the time of TOS.
I’ve been looking at sci-fi and conceptual space art from the 1950s/60s. The era’s concept of a large space station is pretty much always a wheel. In that respect Franz Joseph was in the ball park with his Starfleet Headquarters concept found in his Star Fleet Technical Manual.
We know Starbase 10 proper was planet bound. The chart on Commodore Stone’s wall suggests several ships currently at the base (supposedly). I think that really suggests some facility or facilities in orbit to service those ships given the idea in TOS is that starships generally do not land. And when I’m referring to starships I mean that in the broader sense of the word and not just Constitution-class ships. I don’t believe for a second that all those ships listed on Stone’s chart were Constitution-class. I’m not interested in deciphering that chart—I’m simply interested in what it suggests in terms of starbase operations.
Concurrently I’m also musing on what form the Gorn ship could take. Hmm…
We know Starbase 10 proper was planet bound. The chart on Commodore Stone’s wall suggests several ships currently at the base (supposedly). I think that really suggests some facility or facilities in orbit to service those ships given the idea in TOS is that starships generally do not land. And when I’m referring to starships I mean that in the broader sense of the word and not just Constitution-class ships. I don’t believe for a second that all those ships listed on Stone’s chart were Constitution-class. I’m not interested in deciphering that chart—I’m simply interested in what it suggests in terms of starbase operations.
Concurrently I’m also musing on what form the Gorn ship could take. Hmm…
That’s an interesting thought exercise. I have the feeling that the since the TOS Gorn were big, slow lizards, their ship design would have probably followed suit. Something simple, yet brutal.
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