Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy General Discussion Thread

[Timofnine]

Or, they might make their own ship rather than the constant reliance on old ships.

But the Enterprise is a major part of the Show/franchise. It is a bit like the Millennium Falcon being the main hero ship in Star Wars. The Enterprise is iconic.

Need to learn that a series\movie primary ship is a character onto itself, and getting rid or destroying it is A Big deal.

And showrunners/producers that get rid of them nonchalantly is really Just Rude.

I did spontaneously destroy the Enterprise E in my head once as a result of Eaglemoss making me angry, I needed an outlet.

I prefer my version of the Enterprise E destruction as compared to that of the Living Construct potentially ‘nonchalantly’ doing so, it would have given the ship a longer service life too up until the early 2400’s.

 

[fireproof78]

But the Enterprise is a major part of the Show/franchise. It is a bit like the Millennium Falcon being the main hero ship in Star Wars. The Enterprise is iconic.

To older fans. Shouldn't newer fans be allowed to have their own icons? This holding on to the past is becoming a bit too problematic for my tastes now. I get it. The Enterprise in TOS configuration is my first starship love and all other starships get informed by it. But, even Roddenberry expected a new person to come in to the franchise and to bring their own sense and sensibility to Star Trek and to add to what makes Star Trek. That's what I want as well. The unwillingness to move past the past strikes me as a bit odd in a franchise ostensibly about the future.

 

[Wouter]

This interview with the Hagemans goes into the anxiety regarding the "known" ships: https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/star-trek-prodigy-season-1-finale-showrunner-interview

So, it was just an Easter egg and I'm sure the Sovereign, Ent-E, Defiant and Thunderchild survived, even if they were there (I guess the Sovvy and the Defiant registries were prominent enough to consider them having been there, but clearly they were not total loss if so).

 

[Timofnine]

To older fans. Shouldn't newer fans be allowed to have their own icons? This holding on to the past is becoming a bit too problematic for my tastes now. I get it. The Enterprise in TOS configuration is my first starship love and all other starships get informed by it. But, even Roddenberry expected a new person to come in to the franchise and to bring their own sense and sensibility to Star Trek and to add to what makes Star Trek. That's what I want as well. The unwillingness to move past the past strikes me as a bit odd in a franchise ostensibly about the future.

I always thought that the whole point of a new Enterprise (originally) *was* to bring the franchise forward. All the other shows, as good as most of them are, have always been kind of filler ‘hero’/expanded universe ships. The series Enterprise and SNW are exceptions but they filled in the blanks where established past Enterprises still had stories to tell. Every time I think of a ‘flagship’ show taking the Trek future forward it makes me think of an Enterprise in the lineage doing so. If there is going to be a 25th century continuation of the series as a flagship show I have always associated this kind of progression forward as being led by a big E. Maybe that is just me though and I need to broaden my horizons.

 

[fireproof78]

I always thought that the whole point of a new Enterprise (originally) *was* to bring the franchise forward. All the other shows, as good as most of them are, have always been kind of filler ‘hero’/expanded universe ships. The series Enterprise and SNW are exceptions but they filled in the blanks where established past Enterprises still had stories to tell. Every time I think of a ‘flagship’ show taking the Trek future forward it makes me think of an Enterprise in the lineage doing so. If there is going to be a 25th century continuation of the series as a flagship show I have always associated this kind of progression forward as being led by a big E. Maybe that is just me though and I need to broaden my horizons.

I'm the opposite. An "Enterprise" is just a ship. If we get a nice show that has compelling characters and moves the franchise forward then I'm going to be focused on the characters and stories and additional lore to the franchise, not the name of the ship. Now, I'll grant my view is one that is considered at odds with the deep profound emotional attachment the franchise as a whole, and many fans, treat a starship named Enterprise. I'm just not worried about a name. It could be named Enterprise and that won't capture my interest if the characters are not there.

 

[Tuskin38]

Discovery seems to be treating the Voyager-J has the new flagship. The President herself chooses the Captain, so.

 

[The Wormhole]

Indeed, if Voyager J isn't the flagship in the 32nd century than it must be one hell of a prestigious posting if the Captain is handpicked by the President.

 

[Christopher]

I hate the whole idea of Starfleet and/or the Federation having a "flagship." That's not what that word means in naval usage. It's the command ship of a task force, or any ship where a flag officer is based. It's a temporary designation, not something permanently attached to a given ship. And I hate it that Strange New Worlds has retroactively applied the term to Pike's Enterprise, when the term was never used in TOS, being first applied to the Enterprise-D in TNG. Kirk's Enterprise in TOS/TAS wasn't the flagship of anything. It was one of twelve of the biggest, most advanced and powerful class of capital ships, but it wasn't unique among them.

 

[thribs]

Starfleet isn't the Navy though. They can do what ever they want. If they want to use the word "flagship" to represent the main starship of Starfleett, they can.

 

[fireproof78]

The term has been grossly misused and its frustrating. I get it-they want the hero ship to be special. But find a better term.

 

[Tuskin38]

Star Trek has used it in the traditional way as well in the past.

 

[thribs]

A word can’t have two meanings?

 

[Christopher]

Starfleet isn't the Navy though. They can do what ever they want.

Except it was always presented from the start as following naval conventions and terminology. The creators chose to model it on the real military.

If they want to use the word "flagship" to represent the main starship of Starfleett, they can.

But it's a stupidly elitist idea, to say that one ship is better than all the others. That's an insult to everyone else in the fleet. And why the hell should Starfleet even have a "main ship?" What is the point of something like that, in a fleet that has to be active in hundreds of places all over the quadrant? It makes no sense. It's fannish writing, warping the in-universe reality to revolve around fan favorites rather than following internal logic.

The term has been grossly misused and its frustrating. I get it-they want the hero ship to be special. But find a better term.

The TOS ship was special because it was one of the fleet's primary capital ships -- but just one out of a dozen. That should've been enough. It makes far more sense to have a dozen or more "special" ships than just one. Because a space fleet needs to be in a lot more than one place at a time.

 

[fireproof78]

The TOS ship was special because it was one of the fleet's primary capital ships -- but just one out of a dozen. That should've been enough. It makes far more sense to have a dozen or more "special" ships than just one. Because a space fleet needs to be in a lot more than one place at a time.

Completely agree. Kirk's comment is sufficient. This new trend is backwards.

 

[eschaton]

But it's a stupidly elitist idea, to say that one ship is better than all the others. That's an insult to everyone else in the fleet. And why the hell should Starfleet even have a "main ship?" What is the point of something like that, in a fleet that has to be active in hundreds of places all over the quadrant? It makes no sense. It's fannish writing, warping the in-universe reality to revolve around fan favorites rather than following internal logic.

Biggest issue by far is "small quadrant syndrome."

Hard to make the Federation feel like a state spanning a good portion of the galaxy if one single ship does all the heroic crap. Much better to presume there are innumerable others of equal stature.

 

[Wouter]

Biggest issue by far is "small quadrant syndrome."

Hard to make the Federation feel like a state spanning a good portion of the galaxy if one single ship does all the heroic crap. Much better to presume there are innumerable others of equal stature.

And there are. Plenty of Galaxy and Sovereign class vessels in the fleet, and we see many other ships during the shows that are more advanced than the hero ship of the moment (Prometheus, Protostar, Dauntless, also the Intrepid-class relative to the Ent-D,...). Or if you see the Titan in Lower Decks, it is doing the same thing (and even the Cerritos has a certain reputation, not always in the negative sense).

 

[eschaton]

And there are. Plenty of Galaxy and Sovereign class vessels in the fleet, and we see many other ships during the shows that are more advanced than the hero ship of the moment (Prometheus, Protostar, Dauntless, also the Intrepid-class relative to the Ent-D,...). Or if you see the Titan in Lower Decks, it is doing the same thing (and even the Cerritos has a certain reputation, not always in the negative sense).

Trek series have varied when it comes to how much they upped the stakes/how much they fell to small quadrant syndrome.

Back in the Berman days, as much as I loved DS9, it was terrible regarding this. Ferenginar seemed like some sort of small town rather than the capitol of a minor interstellar power. But VOY did a great job keeping levels of "epicness" appropriate (crew was mostly just a bunch of b-tier folks).

In modern Trek, Lower Decks is fantastic at making the scope of the galaxy seem wide, while Discovery was pretty universally terrible at it.

 

[Uhura's Song]

In terms of Enterprise centrality:
TOS: yes
TAS: yes
TNG: yes
DS9: no
VOY: no
ENT: yes
DISCO: no
PIC: no
LD: no
PRO: no
SNW: yes

11 shows. 5 yes. 6 nope.

All the movies, save for Search for Spock.

 

[Wouter]

An interview with Jameela Jamil (Ascencia), published in early december (but not yet linked AFAIK) shortly after Ascencia's double agent status was revealed: https://www.tvfanatic.com/2022/12/star-trek-prodigy-season-1-episode-16-review-preludes/

Allthough it's not entirely clear whether she is solely talking about season 1 episodes (the voice actors/actresses have done most, if not all of the season 2 work by now and I remember Ella Purnell teased something in the Ready Room about interpretation of Murf's sounds that hasn't been in the show yet, unless I totally missed it), I strongly suspect at least one thing she mentions may be a season 2 development to come.

"Towards the end, it starts to feel really confusing as to how much you're supposed to hate her because she's been through so much, and she's been kind of gnarled into the person she is now.

"And she really doesn't think she's doing anything wrong. She thinks she is leveling the playing field. She's just acting from a place of a broken heart. I think that's a humane and cool thing for people – especially young people – to be able to see in a quite surreal way. Deep down, it's quite relatable."

"You're just gonna have to wait and see, but the path she's currently on – especially when we first meet her – is she can't see straight; she's so angry. It's so complicated, and there's so much history.

"How do you ever make up for what she's lost? And should it be upon these people who weren't responsible for what happened to her to make that up to her?"

[about the Diviner and Ascencia]
"Yes, and you'll learn more about that relationship and its kind of intricacy through the show. It starts to make more sense as to why she's so invested in him. She can be quite short with him sometimes, quite frustrated, and you learn more about their history. It helps explain her journey and her mission a bit better."

"I think partially what's so cool about playing her when she's 'Ensign' [Asencia] is that she's so plucky, she's so kind of goody-two-shoes.

"Obviously, she comes up she clashes with Janeway sometimes, lightly but politely, but I think that a few people have pointed out that it's actually kind of sad how much potential she could've had because she was an exemplary ensign."

"So I think maybe she gets away with things because she's so impressive and so strong, and she seems so on-team that no one can see this coming"

"There's a lot that [The Vindicator and Gwyn] have in common, and I think that's also partially why they clash. Sometimes you clash the most with the people who are the most similar to you in certain ways, but my relationship with Gwyn grows in its complexity, but I think it's really cool." [emphasis mine]

 

[Wouter]

An interview with the Hagemans:
https://intl.startrek.com/news/warp-five-star-trek-prodigy-showrunners-season-1-finale

Referencing their body of experience, Kevin noted, "That's the type of writers we are. If you look at a lot of our work, our heroes are not killing the villain. No, the hero saves the villain," with Dan chiming in that the heroes save the villain by allowing him to "see how Starfleet operates; they're not people trying to destroy a civilization."

"Some label it as a kid's show, but it was always intended to be all-ages," stated Kevin. "Because of that, we needed an emotional depth and an emotional intelligence to our series. So from day one, it was in our pitch. We knew how this season would end, and we got it. I'm so proud of it because we didn't know we'd have a Season 2. All we knew is we had 20 episodes. By the end, we wanted to make sure we had something that really resonated. For me growing up, watching ET, it ruined me, but it was so beautiful. To this day, I look back and it's one of my favorite movies, and so is Iron Giant."

"The writers' room all figured that Dal is the living embodiment of what Starfleet represents," explained Kevin. "We were, 'How beautiful is that?' He thinks of himself as so ugly and he's embarrassed of what he is, but Janeway turns it around in this beautiful way in the end."

The Hagemans knew that Gwyn's path forwarded would have to be one she took on her own. "When we were dealing with what that conversation would be around The Diviner on his deathbed, it felt like there's a passing of the torch," remarked Dan. "He's been redeemed, but he still has a problem. His world is going to collapse, so to speak, by civil war. What can Gwyn do? That's a big baton to be handed."

"We just discovered, by the end, you can't just leave Solum hanging out there; a whole world that might fall apart," added Kevin. "Again, it created a very interesting story opportunity for us."

"Season 2 is going to feel very different. It'll be wrapping up a lot of these stories that are still open. Chakotay. Solum."

Well, resonate it did. I don't know if Star Trek has ever had a season finale/movie climax that was as much or more emotionally resonating, outside maybe The Wrath of Khan and DS9's final episode.