Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
- Start date
Eh. it only matters in a Deadpool movie.
I was kind of hoping that in the season finale of She-Hulk, we'd pull back and see that the audience Jen was talking to the whole time was... Uatu. That her Hulk powers somehow included awareness of the Watcher. That would've been a sensible in-universe explanation (by Marvel values of "sensible"), but it would also have been a fun punchline.
I love that it's "gone into the completely stupid", and Bao was awesome. There has been goofy, crazy stuff in comics going all the way back to the beginning, so it's nice to see the adaptations finally realizing that they can have more fun and start to embrace that kind of stuff.
As for inaccuracies, the only ones that really bother me, are the ones that are blatantly, obviously wrong, to point that anyone could tell instantly. As an animals person two of my biggest pet peeves are when they use an animal that is obviously the wrong sex or breed than what the script says. It always bugs me when they've got a horse or dog, or another animal that is very obviously male, and then call it a female. Or if they say that it's a breed that looks absolutely nothing like what we're seeing. To me that just seems so lazy , would it really have been that hard to tell the trainer or whoever "hey, we need a female golden retriever," " we need a female quater horse"? I'm a little more forgiving when they use females for males, since males can sometime be harder to deal with or they might want to avoid the thing that make them obviously male showing up on screen.
Just because you're unable to accept it doesn't mean everyone else is the same.
I really don't see why its that big of a deal. Like I said , there are a lot of works of Metafiction that are still serious in nature. Just because it's a genre universe doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to utilize that same elements that "literary" works do. There is no reason why She-Hulk can't go into an MCU movie and be totally straight and Non-4th wall breaking--and then go back to a series where the character makes meta-commentary about her experience. That amplifies and extends the stylistic diversity of the MCU and brings it more closely in line with the comics. Isn't that bringing it closer to an extended universe that is closer to the stylistic diversity of the comics?
I'm always fascinated by the disjunction between what's accepted in 'genre' fiction vs. 'literary' fiction. Author stand-ins? Respectable tradition in literary, Mary Sue in genre.
Exactly--I mentioned King's The Dark Tower series earlier, which in my opinion, is one of the best genre examples of a work that employs "literary" fiction devices. Like Misery was a commentary on King's feelings about his own success as a writer, The Dark Tower series was commentary on how a writer creates fictional worlds and characters. The characters knew they were created by King, yet that didn't detract from the surface adventure/fantasy story--and the coda was brilliant in that it implies the stories go on as long as there are new readers to experience them.
If She-Hulk had been a series outside of the MCU, it would have received much recognition and accolades for its writing, acting, and wrestling with "real world" issues--but since its in the MCU--it didn't.
Observing and participating in. At the same time. For the films he’s in at least. And aware of those he’s not.
And some of the best Deadpool stories in the comics are those where he gets so mad, he forgets he’s nuts and drops all the fourth wall breaking. Deadpool 1 almost did it when he actually fights Ajax on the not-helicarrier.
The one thing I’ve noticed is that the general audience and/or fans always seems ready to support everyone’s personal take on the subject. 
Only because fandom has misunderstood what "Mary Sue" originally meant. It wasn't supposed to refer to all stories centered on guest characters or authorial insertions -- just cases where it was done badly, where it was just authorial self-indulgence with nothing else going for it. After all, it originated in Star Trek fan fiction, and Star Trek came from an era of television where dramas aspired to be anthology-like and centering on guest stars was commonplace. But once fandom latched onto "Mary Sue" as a buzzword, they lost sight of the fact that it was meant to apply only to the bad examples of the character type and assumed that every example of the type was automatically bad.
For me personally it always pulled me out of the story. They used to do it once in a blue moon where you would see something stupid like Jack Kirby as God or something. When Deadpool arrived it got too silly for me and I stopped reading comics. I would try to justify some of the sillier stuff or disregard it as just a bad issue and move on. The movies to me where a godsend. They had light humor but took the subject matter seriously. As serious as you can get with superheros. They have increasingly got sillier. With the last Thor and She Hulk series pretty much taking me out of the stories. I get that it works for some people. That's great. But knowing that She Hulk could pretty much rewrite her story at anytime takes any tension out of it for me.
I just don't think general audiences will lap this stuff up as easily. I have non comic friends that like CB movies that thought Thor and She Hulk were awful for the very reasons I mentioned.
What tension are you losing with She-Hulk exactly?
It’s not like she can beat up pretty much any for with ease anyway.
The drama comes from her relationships with other characters.
And at no point we’re any of them drastically altered to fit her needs, even though she is aware to be fictional.
And also she hasn’t rewritten anything.
She had to go plea for changes to be made.
It was the writer, not her that made the change, because she had a point.
And she was written like that by the writer.
So what you are complaining about is that the writer can change the plot.
Just because you accept something as silly as characters breaking the 4th wall in a film universe that was originally not set up to go in that direction does not mean anyone else has to.
Excellent observation; someone might offer insanity as an excuse for Deadpool, but that's certainly not the case with She-Hulk. So, either they are both insane, or the once-"real" world those stories took place in is simply an observed, "hosted" series of stories a couple of characters are sharing with the audience.
Do you believe She-Hulk was so creative in its characterizations, performances or unique in its address of "real world" issues compared to any other (and numerous) non-fantasy series doing the same (as a regular part of their genre, such as legal or procedural cop dramas)--to the point where it would be praised?
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Midway through the episode changes were made. Daredevil falling out of the sky, bewildered was lame as well. I'm glad people found enjoyment out of it. I did not I thought it was silly and would rather watch Adam West as Batman. Which at this point is looking rather serious compared to Thor and Sh...
Breaking the fourth wall is not incompatible with serious drama. What do you think Shakespearean soliloquies were? The characters would literally turn to the audience and tell them what they were thinking. Most drama throughout human history, until very, very recently in the grand scheme of things, has been performed in person, so the fourth wall was always permeable.
It is a dramedy--and succeeded in many ways where Powerless failed. It predicted the shows own "real world" enemy and addressed the toxic masculinity that arose around the show throughout the series. If the show had been a longer, "real" show we would have seen much more development of the supporting cast. It was a show about the female viewpoint that resonated with a lot of people in ways that more serious dramas have not. What's more it showed that Marvel recognizes their shortcomings in terms of producing movies that fall too narrowly within an established formula. It made fun of how we take these movies too seriously and the way we nitpick and debate tiniest details. For me, this was the best satire about the genre since Mallrats.
Just because I'm one of the groups (Nerdy Types, Overly intense fans of the genre, or whatever) targeted in the humor and satire, doesn't mean I can't take the joke.
Is Marvel "predicting" that enemy or creating it?